Talk:Marty Haugen

Proposal to move some of this information to another page
I am proposing that the material on this page that regards the "music wars" in general be moved to a new page.

For details on this proposal, please see A Concrete Proposal at Talk:Contemporary Catholic hymnody. If you agree, disagree, or have comments, please comment on that page! - Lawrence King 02:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, agreed. It's sad that some contributors seem unable to discuss issues such as these without letting their contempt cloud the objectivity of the discussion. I rephrased things here to attempt to be respectful to all sides, and it's been rewritten with the respect removed again. Whatever happened to "ut diligatis invicem"? C0pernicus 17:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Aha, Latin for "NPOV"!

When I do the rearrangement (assuming there are no objections) I'll try to structure the page in such a way that there is room for all views. But of course the battle for NPOV is always ongoing.... - Lawrence King 23:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * First time I've seen this and a 'discussion.' A whole new listing on Contemporary etc. is where this belongs, linked to the pages of all the contemporary musicians. - comment made 12:39, 18 September 2006 by 64.109.46.238

This proposal and the edits of 65.60.255.11
In the past few days, 65.60.255.11 has been making a great number of edits to this page and to related pages. I hesitate to make the changes I proposed above until either (1) his edits slow down, or (2) he chimes in on this discussion, because it might cause some sort of chaos. - Lawrence King 05:27, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

From a different URL: I'm "65.60.255.11." Most of my edits are technical and editorial and not substantial. Absolutely agree to move the entire discussion to its own place, to contribute an outline and some sources, and to leave the controversial Mr. Haugen's article in peace.

Done!
I have moved all the controversy material to Contemporary Catholic liturgical music. Please don't add more to this page, unless it really is specific to Marty Haugen alone. - Lawrence King 06:07, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Not sure how to add this
Her song "I need you to listen" appeared at the beginning of the Lifetime movie "Prayers for Bobby." I would think that would be fairly notable but I'm not exactly sure how it should be added.(I assuming under the appears in section?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.13.1 (talk) 05:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Church membership
Is Haugen a member of the UCC? Having a position with a particular church does not make one a member of the church. In addition to this Haugen's Lutheran background is in a denomination that is in full communion with the UCC. chazman (talk) 03:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * He's a member of Mayflower UCC in Minneapolis, which does make him a member of the UCC. Per a news brief on Mayflower's site: "Marty is an internationally known composer and performer, featuring themes of peace and eco-justice, and a member of this church." (That news page will be updated at some point, but the reference should be good through May at least.) There's no line in the UCC between member of the church and member of the denomination. However, if you'd like to clarify something about the relationship between the ALC and the UCC somewhere in the article (probably not in the intro unless it's really short), that would be helpful. WeisheitSuchen (talk) 05:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I would hardly think there is any reason to clarify a relationship between the ELCA (there is no longer an ALC) and the UCC. My only point was one of making sure the article was factual. I would think Haugen as a member of an UCC congregation would self identify as UCC, but that is not always a given. By pointing out that the ELCA and UCC were in full communion I was only trying to gain some clarity on what has sometimes led to individuals being employed by and even even having some form of "membership" at a particular congregation while self identifying with another tradition. For the record I also believe Haugen serves as a faculty member of an UCC seminary.chazman (talk) 01:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The only UCC seminary in his area is United Theological Seminary of the Twin Cities, and I don't see him listed as either regular or adjunct faculty. That doesn't mean he hasn't done work with people at the seminary, of course, but I don't think you're correct about him being faculty. If you've got a source that shows that he was at some point in the past, that would be a good thing to add.
 * I also have no idea what you're basing your idea that membership is a "small point" to Haugen. If you know him personally, that's fine, although obviously original research shouldn't be included in articles. But my personal membership in the UCC is hardly "meaningless" as you claim it should be as a mainline protestant. I know of many others within the UCC who identify quite strongly with the denomination. Again, it's original research on my part and not fit for the article, but to think that no one cares in a denomination that's spent so much time and effort on denominational identity and community seems quite absurd.
 * I think perhaps in the future you should aim to make edits a bit less based on your personal assumptions about what is "meaningless" or not and rely a bit more on reliable sources. If you'd looked up his membership in the first place, you never would have made the edit which made the article less accurate. WeisheitSuchen (talk) 22:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You are right that I have overstepped my bounds in making an assumption about what Haugen feels about denominational membership. As far as his teaching credentials I only wish I could find his connection to UTS besides workshops that he has offered there. (I read about this online on a biography somewhere....I did not care to take note of it at the time.) This is why I included the information on this talk page;  I am hoping that someone who knows more of his biography could clarify this for me.chazman (talk) 22:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Especially when you're dealing with the biography of a living person, it's important to not make claims based on assumptions or things half-remembered. If you have a question about a detail but can't find a source, then ask it here as a request to help find a source rather than saying that it's something you think is true. Even on the talk page, what is written here "can affect real people's lives. This gives us an ethical and legal responsibility." Besides asking for help, you can also do a Google search and see what you can find on your own. That's how I found the source for his membership. Two minutes of searching would have probably let you find Marty's bio on his own site, which says he is "occasionally" an adjunct professor at United. A search would have also led you to this information on the convocation at United last month where Marty was the keynote speaker. So yes, he's tied to the seminary, but he's not listed as a current faculty member. All of this was done with a couple of simple Google searches; you don't have to remember where you read something in the past, you just have to search for it. That's part of how Wikipedia works; it's not just experts who know everything off the top of their heads. People who know how to do research make valuable contributions even when they aren't intimately familiar with the subject. Try doing some research; you'd be amazed what you can find and contribute. WeisheitSuchen (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I did remove one sentence from my commentary on this talk page in keeping with your advice concerning presumption and ethical responsibility.chazman (talk) 01:00, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

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