Talk:Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-in comics/Archive 15

Fate of Iron Man: Coming of the Melter
Why is this story no longer listed? It should in the very least be among the non-canon ones, by the way, how did you make the division of what is canon and what is only marketing? Is that seal enough to be sure? The first few stories didn't have it because they didn't have a complete idea on doing more comics.

--82.154.192.226 (talk) 15:45, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Guardians of the Galaxy: Galaxy's Most Wanted
Should it be listed as one of the marketing comics? I just read a few pages and looked though the whole thing and it seems to be based on the world of the movie, plus it lists Marvel Studios people on the credits page.NTC TNT (talk) 03:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you have any reliable sources for it, like a preview or article on it perhaps? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:58, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I have read it as well, and agree that at least the character designs are based on the movie, but I haven't found any confirmation from Marvel on whether it is set in the MCU or even inspired by GotG specifically. If you can find something like that, then it should definitely be added here, in the appropriate place. - adamstom97 (talk) 09:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Ant-Man Prelude tie-in
Here's the source 2601:C:780:234:C87B:D5:C5C:6A75 (talk) 20:17, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It's already on the page..... - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:47, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Collected editions
The collected editions table needs to list the individual issues for series. For instance: Captain America: First Vengeance needs to say Captain America: First Vengeance #1-4. It doesn't make sense to say Captain America: First Vengeance collects Captain America: First Vengeance.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:34, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ - adamstom97 (talk) 12:27, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I would like to question the contents listed for the "Iron Man: I am Iron Man" collected edition. The book i own contains "Iron Man: I Am Iron Man", "Security Measures" and "Iron Man #200". At the moment this list states that it should also contain "Iron Man: Fast Friends #1–2" and "The Incredible Hulk: The Fury Files #1–2", which my book does not. The fault lies in the Amazon listing, which also incorrectly lists these comics as being contained on the collected edition, therefore whenever anyone has tried to edit the page to list the correct contents, someone reverts the page believing Amazon to be correct.
 * It isn't about whether the Amazon listing is correct or not, it is about what is reliably sourced. In this case, the ISBN is provided, and when google searched, the first result is the Amazon listing of said ISBN. If you have a reliable source with the "actual" listing, then please provide it. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:07, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, the most reliable source for the "actual" contents of the book is from reading the book itself. Unfortunately most internet websites, even the official Marvel Website (http://marvel.com/news/comics/11813/required_reading_iron_man) list it as containing Fast Friends and Fury Files (which it does not) and not Security Measures (which it does). It would seem very difficult to remedy this situation given how many seemingly reliable internet sites list an incorrect contents list.82.34.87.146 (talk) 19:59, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The rules are the rules, and we an't just take your word for it when we have reliable sources that disagree with you. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:42, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If it makes a difference, there is a photo of the contents page from the "Iron Man: I Am Iron Man" collected edition here82.34.87.146 (talk) 18:04, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Canon vs. Non-canon and Move
People visiting this page would probably be interested in the connections between these comics and the rest of the MCU, however the information on what is official canon and what isn't is not clear. I think the scope of the page should be altered to focus more on the connections to the films and the continuity with them, rather than just being a list of comics grouped by character. If this change is made, the page will still essentially be a list, and so i support a move to List of Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-in comics, as has been suggested previously on another talk page. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

This is a very good idea, we should really distinguish which one can be considered as part of the real MCU canon, I have a question, do the extra scenes in movie adaptation count as canon? Theonewithquestions (talk) 14:10, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * While I don't have a problem separating canon from non-canon comics, how do we know for sure which comics fall in which category? -Joltman (talk) 16:48, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Joltman. We need a reliable source that states this distinction. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:41, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * From looking into this more, it seems the only 'good' sources as to what's canon or not come from a Marvel Studios creative manager's twitter account. I think it's best to just have one list, and perhaps note ones that are not canon if they have a valid source. -Joltman (talk) 11:56, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
 * the sources i have started adding to the main table are from the official marvel website, where they go into detail about the expansion of the universe into comics, and the connections across mediums (marvel is quite proud of what they've done). It is mostly a lot of interviews with writers and artists, and will take time to sift through, but for now, i think we should keep the page as is, and just work on expanding each section. If we get to a point where we are lacking enough reliable sources and the page doesn't seem to be getting much better, we may have to think about condensing it (and probably removing/ merging some of the individual sections). However, i do plan to put more work into the page as soon as possible, so i think we should leave it as is for a bit. - adamstom97 (talk) 12:08, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Why are the various movie adaptations listed under "Marketing," implying that they are not canon? They are clearly canon, marked with the "Official Tie-In" stamp logo. - Dsethlewis (talk) 17:51, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Nowhere does it state that those comics are non-canon, in fact, the fact that they are movie adaptations implies that they are canon, however, they do not expand the story of the MCU, e.g. by telling new stories, so they have been released solely as marketing for the films, incentive for fans to pay more money. The comics cannot simply be Canon and Non-canon because of their nature - they are released as tie-ins to the films, unlike the tv series, which are their own entities that just exist within the same universe. Therefore, this page approaches the comics in terms of what tie-ins expand the story, and what tie-ins don't, hence the current division. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

There should definitely be a distinction made between the "regular" tie-in Comic Books and those only released through marketing campaigns. Many of the "Marketing" comic books were only available as short-term promotional offers via companies such as Burger King, Wal-Mart, Norton, Lexus, etc. and so weren't made widely available for standard purchase.82.34.87.146 (talk) 23:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I disagree however that the direct movie adaptations should be included under the "other" section. There is perhaps value in keeping the "Movie Adaptations" and the "Expanded Universe" books separate, however the former are no less worthy of prominence on this page than the latter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.87.146 (talk) 23:57, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In Comics
I think that the main table under "Titles" should only include those titles that are Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In titles. This table also shows up on the main MCU page with the films, one-shots, and television shows, yet the table is incomplete and also contains a non-Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In title (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase). Also, the image for the page is the MCU Official Tie-In red stamp, yet the primary table does not include all of the red stamped comics and does include The Chase. While there has been some difficulty in the past with knowing which titles are official tie-ins, it is much easier to tell now which titles fall into this category. The following are some reasons why certain titles should or should not be included in the main table: I am including how I think the main table for the MCU tie-in comics page should appear (both for the comics page and the main MCU page):
 * Regarding which comics are official canon, Will Corona Pilgrim explains: It can be confusing, ... but we have “canon” comics that are considered official MCU canon stories. Then we have other comics that we consider more “inspired by.” The canon ones have that Marvel stamp and the trade dress has a cinematic wide screen feel. Whereas the inspired tie-ins are much more about having another fun adventure with the Avengers. They're not considered canonical though. Those are just fun adventures with the team because we want to tell more Avengers stories.
 * We also know that every single MCU Official Tie-In comic has been collected in the (soon-to-be) nine TPB collected editions (which also all include the official red stamp, and again excludes Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase from the current list). By removing every single reprinted, non-MCU comic from these TPBs, we get a complete list of MCU Official Tie-In comics.
 * The adaptations (Iron Man: I Am Iron Man, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger, and The Avengers) should all be included in the main table. To see how the adaptations go beyond directly adapting the films, look at the additional interaction between Fury and Sitwell in Iron Man: I Am Iron Man #1 that is not included in the Iron Man film. Also, in an interview with NEWSarama.com, Will Corona Pilgrim mentions: We always want to give the fans as much as possible knowing full well that they aren’t privy to the behind the scenes discussions that really make these movies come together. One such discussion was an Iron Man 2 scene, which was storyboarded but never filmed that we felt necessary to include in the adaptation since we believed it to be in canon, this was the “Boys Flight Out” sequence where Tony invites Rhodey to wear the Mark II and it’s a first flight test for Rhodey. It’s one of those things where we felt strongly enough to include it in the official adaptation though the sequence was never shot.

I added all of the adaptations in, I included the "Dangerous Prey" subtitle to the Guardians of the Galaxy Infinite Comic (found in the TPB print version), I wrote all of the infinite comics in the same style (film title, em dash, subtitle, Infinite Comic), I added the Ant-Man infinite comic, and I removed the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase comic. This table now includes all 37 Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In comics. This is a rough visualization, and is clearly missing a couple of citations. Again, I believe that the main table should include all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In comics, and only those comics. — FBISD (talk) 21:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Completed. I updated the comics table on the comics page so that it now includes all 37 Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In Comics, and only those comics. This includes the adaptations, the infinite comics, the preludes, etc. —FBISD (talk) 22:02, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

November 2015 Article Updates
The recent updates by Adamstom.97 are really well done and sourced. There are a few instances where I think the article needs to be changed to better reflect the current MCU canon. Instead of making all of the changes immediately and to hopefully avoid any extra edits, reverting edits, etc., I thought that discussing the edits first would be appropriate.


 * The "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" section is used only for MCU Official Tie-In comics, staying in line with the red stamp on the page, the previous article discussions, the sources stating which comics are and are not canon, and the fact that the table shows up on the Marvel Cinematic Universe page. Both Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase and Marvel's Jessica Jones need to be moved from the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" section to the "Other titles" section. On October 14, 2014, Will Corona Pilgrim tweeted that Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase is not canon. Marvel's Jessica Jones seems to fall in a similar category, as it does not contain the MCU Official Tie-In red stamp, is not an MCU Infinite Comic, and has not been listed as canon. It should be placed in the "Other titles" section unless/until it is deemed to be canon.
 * Iron Man 2: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was originally released as three digital comics. Iron Man 2 - Nick Fury: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. – Who Made Who was released digitally on April 23, 2010. Iron Man 2 - Phil Coulson: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. – Just Off the Farm was released digitally on April 28, 2010. Iron Man 2 - Black Widow: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. – Proximity was released digitally on May 05, 2010. Although the hard copied complete issue was released on September 1, 2010, the comic was actually fully released digitally by May 05, 2010. The first digital part of Iron Man 2: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was released before the first issue of Iron Man 2: Public Identity and the last digital part of Iron Man 2: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was released before the last issue of Iron Man 2: Public Identity. Therefore, Iron Man 2: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. was released before Iron Man 2: Public Identity. However, the current table does not particularly work with all of these dates, so I think that (similar to the current Captain America: First Vengeance and The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week sections) perhaps the digital dates should be placed in the Iron Man 2: Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. section, while the hard copy date remains in the table.
 * In the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" table, Marvel's Captain America: The First Avenger is listed as having three issues, although there are only two issues. The "First published" and "Last published" dates are correct, so I'm guessing this was just an accident.
 * The first digital issue of Captain America: First Vengeance was released on February 6, 2011, not February 16 as the article currently states. Tracking all of these dates down is difficult, particularly because one website will say one date, while another website says another date. We may never know the actual date, and this is a very minor edit as nothing in the MCU was released between the two dates, however the source in this comment is directly from Marvel.com.
 * Captain America: The Winter Soldier Infinite Comic is for some reason now listed under "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" as Marvel's Captain America: The Winter Soldier Prelude. The actual comic itself is called Marvel's Captain America: The Winter Soldier Infinite Comic #1 according to the online version, as well as the Captain America: The Winter Soldier Prelude collected edition, and is listed properly elsewhere on the page. Marvel seems to use different naming structures for every MCU infinite comic so far, and does not always stay consistent with these names, even across its own platforms.
 * The Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy Infinite Comic was printed in the Guardians of the Glaxay Prelude collected edition with the subtitle Dangerous Prey (much like the infinite comics This Scepter'd Isle and Scott Lang: Small Time). This subtitle should be included when talking about the Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy Infinite Comic in the article.
 * The release dates for the issues of Marvel's Captain America: Civil War Prelude are December 16, 2015, December 23, 2015, January 6, 2016, and January 27, 2016. While the "Adaptations" section of the article does not list exact dates each adaptation issue was released (as this would be redundant, since each adaptation is only two issues, and dates for "First published" and "Last published" are included in the table), I think that it would be a good idea to include the release dates for the four-issue Marvel's Captain America: Civil War Prelude. Also, Marvel's Captain America: Civil War Prelude is not only an adaptation of Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Issues #3 and #4), but also of Iron Man 3 (Issues #1 and #2).
 * Marvel’s Captain America: Civil War Prelude Infinite Comic is set to release, although I could not find a release date. It appears that it will also be written by Will Corona Pilgrim and drawn by Szymon Krudanski.
 * The Marvel's Captain America: Civil War Prelude collection will be released on April 12, 2016 with an ISBN-10 of 0785194401 and should be added to the "Collected editions" table, although we do not currently know enough to fill in the "Collected material" section of the table.
 * I like the idea of the "Recurring characters" section, especially since we have similar ones for the MCU films and television shows. I'm not sure if the section is needed, but I guess the "headlining at least one" comic part makes sense. I think that the updated "Reception" section and the new look for the "Other titles" section look really nice.
 * While many of these titles are clearly labeled with Marvel's at the beginning, I think that the page would work better without Marvel's throughout (much like was discussed here). —FBISD (talk) 23:57, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I have gone through and responded to each of your points. Thank you for discussing this here, it has made updating the article easy and painless.
 * I have fixed up The Chase, thanks for that source. I am leaving Jessica Jones for now, because of the wording that Bendis used in the announcement and since we don't have a source saying that it isn't canon.
 * Unless the comics are just digital infinite comics, we should use the actual publishing date in the first/last published columns rather than digital release dates, which is why Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is listed under the September date.
 * I have fixed the issue number for the Captain America adaptation.
 * I have fixed up the First Vengeance date, and thanks for that source, it has been useful throughout the article.
 * I have fixed the Winter Soldier Infinite Comic title.
 * I have added the Dangerous Prey subtitle.
 * I have added the last publishing date for the Civil War Prelude, but I don't think it is necessary to list all of the dates for the it, especially since we aren't doing it for the other adaptations. Also, it is already noted that the comic adapts both Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier, but I have rearranged the adaptations section to make that more clear.
 * I have added the Civil War infinite comic with the source that you linked.
 * I have added the Civil War stuff to the collected editions table, and taken the material column from the infinite comic link.
 * We don't have to do it every time, but we do need to use 'Marvel's' in the table and section headers if it is officially part of the title, just as we do for the films and tv series. The case with the navbox was different, as we don't have to use either the official or common names there, only what makes navigation easiest, so it made sense to get rid of them there even though we can't here.
 * - adamstom97 (talk) 10:00, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Other titles
In the past month, I've added two comics to "Other titles": Ant-Man: Larger Than Life and Iron Man: The Coming of the Melter. Both were published by Marvel Studios. Both had clearly MCU elements (character design etc.). Both had reliable secondary sources (IGN reviews) stating they were set in the MCU. Neither was canonical (Marvel's approach is that if it isn't confirmed to be canonical MCU then it isn't, hence they were both put in "Other titles"). One was kept (Larger Than Life), the other reverted (The Coming of the Melter). In a previous conversation, it was said "feel free to add these if you find a reliable source linking them to either section", which I did in both cases (and held off with Crown of Fools as it hasn't been reviewed). So I'm now trying to work out on what grounds one was removed and the other wasn't.

In my opinion, a much less ambiguous criterion for inclusion (which could be mentioned in the intro of the "Other comics" section) would be publication by Marvel Studios: all their original comics are set in the MCU (we can probably get a source for this, though it's a no-brainer), and it's a clear, unambiguous, and sourceable way of providing a complete list, and allows us to reliably put comics in the list as soon as they've been released. It by no means shows canonicity, but that's another thing altogether, and nothing to do with the "Other titles", many of which are neither confirmed or denied canonicity; it simply doesn't matter: the second list is for all the other MCU comics that have been published, not just for those in the strange category of "comics confirmed not to be canonical", right? ‑‑ Yodin T 13:22, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * P.S. This would also bring it back closer in line with the article's title and original remit, of MCU tie-in comics (which Marvel Studios is essentially the definition of), instead of getting bogged-down in abstract distinctions of canonicity and confirmations of precicely which universe the comics are set in, which neither Marvel, it seems, nor most readers of these tie-in comics, are concerned with. &#8209;&#8209; Yodin T 13:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * There is no need to return to the old format. Will Corona Pilgrim, who works for Marvel Studios and writes most of the tie-ins himself now, has talked substantially about the difference between the canon and inspired-by comics, and it is generally from him that we get confirmation of which category each comic comes under. Because of this, the difference is a bit more significant than the usual canonicity of tie-ins, and remember that we are transcluding the main table to the MCU page and putting the tie-ins on the same level as the films and TV shows, so we have to get it right.
 * The reason I am generally reluctant to use third party sources such as IGN reviews is that they are simply making assumptions based on the artwork. However, I actually now think you are right in thinking that a source such as that can confirm whether a comic is at least inspired by the films, so I would be happy to use such sources for the other titles section. We still need clarification from Marvel to add something to the canon table, but note that this can include such things as the tie-in stamp like we have at the top of the article. - adamstom97 (talk) 17:57, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thor: Crown of Fools
I think Thor: Crown of Fools belongs in the 'Other' list, as it follows the pattern of the other 'inspired by' titles (like Captain America: Homecoming and Guardians of the Galaxy: Galaxy's Most Wanted): it's a one-shot released the month before an associated movie that features a reprint. I can't find anything that specifically ties it to the MCU though, so for now I'm leaving it off, but I wanted to make note of it. -Joltman (talk) 14:06, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Same goes for Iron Man: The Coming of the Melter, which I think was listed here at one point, but must have been removed, and the upcoming Ant-Man: Larger Than Life. -Joltman (talk) 14:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add these if you find a reliable source linking them to either section. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:40, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to note that Captain America: Road to War appears to be the Civil War related 'inspired by' issue. -Joltman (talk) 15:50, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree, hopefully we get a source for it soon. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Collected editions' contents
As was mentioned in a different discussion above, at least two of the collected editions on the page have contents listed that are not actually in the books, due to incorrect listings by Amazon and potentially other sources. Would not the books themselves count as better sources of information? As the user with IP 82.34.87.146 said above, the contents for "Iron Man: I Am Iron Man" are incorrect, and he posted an image of the book's table of contents as evidence.

The contents of "Road to Marvel's The Avengers" is also incorrect. It lists "Iron Man: Security Measures" as part of the book, when that is not included on the list of canon titles higher on the page, despite the book being an official "MCU Tie-In" book. I can also provide an image of that book's table of contents to show "Security Measures" is not included.

Finally, should not "Iron Man 2: Public Identity" (ISBN 978-0785148586) be included in the collected editions list? Pokemega32 (talk) 02:27, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * We need reliable third party sources or anyone could change these and those who haven't read the editions wouldn't be the wiser. And since 978-0785148586 is just a release of that whole comic, it isn't all that notable (the other collected editions collect all sorts of things: canonical tie-ins, non-canonical tie-ins, adaptations, old issues, etc.). - adamstom97 (talk) 02:47, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I think WP:CMOS applies here: "Because individual issues of comic books are primary sources in their articles, basic descriptions of their content, such as their plot and credits, are acceptable." It seems like the issues included in a collection qualifies as "basic descriptions of their content" in this case.  Since this is a list article and not about one issue, we can use  for the collection as stated in WP:CMOS. - DinoSlider (talk) 04:54, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. WP:RS also mentions (see caption under WP:QUESTIONED) "Reliable sources must be strong enough to support the claim. A lightweight source may sometimes be acceptable for a lightweight claim, but never for an extraordinary claim."; contents aren't extraordinary claims, and the purpose of these rules (WP:V etc.) is to ensure accuracy: when following them strictly does the opposite of this, we should WP:IGNORE. &#8209;&#8209; Yodin T 10:53, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Only official titles in the top table (plus changes and updates), April 2016
The Marvel Cinematic Universe titles table is starting to veer back into a table containing comics that are not the MCU Official Tie-In comics. To reiterate which comics are MCU Official Tie-In comics and are to be included in the Marvel Cinematic Universe titles table: only those comics with the official red stamp or those comics which fall under the MCU Infinite comics should be included. When Marvel releases the Collection that corresponds to the next movie, they are very thorough and specific in which comics they include as MCU Official Tie-In comics. So far, all of these comics have also been confirmed as official when they appear on the credits page in the Guidebooks to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

As of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Marvel has done the following for each of its movies: a two-issue comic adaptation of the previous movie in the series or a two-issue prelude comic of the movie if there are no previous movies in the series, a single-issue infinite prelude comic, and a single-issue unofficial comic that is "inspired by" the characters in the MCU. For example: around the time that the film Guardians of the Galaxy was released, Marvel released the following comics: two Prelude comics (Guardians of the Galaxy Prelude #1-2), one infinite comic (Guardians of the Galaxy Infinite Comic – Dangerous Prey), and one unofficial comic set in the MCU (Guardians of the Galaxy: Galaxy's Most Wanted). Another example: around the time that the film Avengers: Age of Ultron was released, Marvel released the following comics: two adaptation comics from the previous film in the series (The Avengers #1-2), one infinite comic (Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude – This Scepter'd Isle), and one unofficial comic set in the MCU (Avengers: Operation Hydra).

These specific Official comics are the ones that should be included in the main Marvel Cinematic Universe titles table. Again, it is very easy to tell which comics are the Official ones. A prelude/adaptation and a prelude infinite comic for each movie, which is later included in the MCU Official Tie-In Comic TPB. However, there are two comics currently on the list that do not fall into this category, and they should be moved to the "Other titles" table.

The first is Jessica Jones #1. This comic sticks out as being unlike all of the other comics in the table as it does not include a red stamp and is not collected in any collection. It does not have the look or feel of any of the preludes, adaptations, or infinite comics. Often, the comic's writer's (Brian Michael Bendis) quote that the comic "is in the marvel tv universe and it celebrates the new show and the connective tissue that will build between the series" is cited as reason enough to label it as canon or as part of the MCU Official Tie-In comics. However, this quote does not in any way claim that this comic should be included in the group of MCU Official Tie-In comics. Take for example a similar quote about the comic Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase: the comic "depicts a previously unseen mission of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. When we begin, our heroes have just saved S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy from a rogue weather machine, but that victory came with a steep cost: the death of one cadet, and the ruination of another (as seen in the Season 1 episode "Seeds")." This quote taken on its own may lead some people to think that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: The Chase should be classified as canon or as part of the MCU Official Tie-In comics. However, even despite referencing a specific episode and point of time in the MCU, the comic does not contain the red stamp, nor is it included in any of the collected editions, nor does it follow any of the standards that the various MCU Official Tie-In preludes/adaptations and infinite comics follow. Fortunately in this case, we have a source from Marvel confirming that this comic is not canon. I include this particular example to show that even though a source sounds like or claims that a comic is part of the MCU, unless it fits the mold of the current examples of MCU Official Tie-In comics, the comic should not be included in the Marvel Cinematic Universe titles table.

The second comic that should not be included in the Marvel Cinematic Universe titles table is Captain America: Road to War. This comic clearly falls under the "single-issue unofficial comic that is inspired by the characters in the MCU" category. Again, this comic does not contain the red stamp, nor is it included in any of the collected editions, nor does it follow any of the standards that the various MCU Official Tie-In preludes/adaptations and infinite comics follow. Regardless of the Newsarama article titled "Preview: Official CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Prequel - MCU Continuity In a Comic Book" stating that "Black Widow and Captain America run through the modern Avengers team leading into Captain America: Civil War in a preview of next week's Marvel Cinematic Universe-set prequel, Captain America: Road to War #1", this comic is not an MCU Official Tie-In comic. This comic is the "inspired by" comic that has started to be released around the same time as every movie, like Captain America: Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy: Galaxy's Most Wanted, Avengers: Operation Hydra, and Ant-Man: Larger Than Life.

In the near future, my plan is to change the page to correctly match the comics that are Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In comics, but I wanted to explain my reasoning to anyone who might want further justifications as to what qualifies as an official MCU story (like the films, television shows, and one-shots). I post here first in order to avoid any editing wars or constant reversions.

Also, the Doctor Strange Prelude TPB is listed on Amazon with the titles that it contains. Included in the TPB are Doctor Strange Prelude #1-2 and Doctor Strange Prelude Infinite Comic #1. I'll include those in the update. FBISD (talk) 04:49, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I completely understand your logic. But this is Wikipedia, and it has rules. It's great to understand what is right first and foremost, but if you want to accurately represent that here, you need sources that back up what is right, because Wikipedia isn't for what is right or true, it is for what is verifiable. So you know from your logic that Road to War is not set in the MCU, but the only source we have at the moment says that it is, and unfortunately your logic does not trump reliable sources here. That doesn't mean that you should give up on trying to make the article right, it just means that you have to wait for a reliable source that backs up the truth.


 * For Jessica Jones, you will again need a reliable source saying that it isn't set in the MCU. Why I, for now, do not think you will get one, or should get one, is because this is different from all the others, including The Chase. Like The Chase, it isn't coming from the same guys as the other tie-ins, because it has nothing to do with the films, and the film and TV guys are separate. So that's why I think it is still canon even though it doesn't have the stamp. Unlike The Chase, it wasn't released as a solely promotional thing, as it was also intended to hint at the connections between series rather than just tell another S.H.I.E.L.D. story and slap the Lexus logo on it. And I think that BMB is pretty reliable anyway. So that's why I currently think you aren't going to find a reliable source disproving the current one.


 * Definitely go ahead with the Doctor Strange stuff, but we will need a more reliable source than Amazon at some point, so don't be surprised if somebody brings that up once you've added it. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:32, 15 April 2016 (UTC)


 * This is why I'm not big on separating between 'official' and 'inspired by' comics. The fact is, they all take place in the MCU. And I'm sure the people making the movies really don't care what happens in any of these comics, official or otherwise. I mean, what happens if something in an official comic is directly contradicted in a movie, does that mean it's not considered official anymore? It just seems like it would save a lot of headache by having a single list. -Joltman (talk) 18:17, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * We can't be worried about the minutiae of canon, as official canon comics have been contradicted by the films before. We aren't splitting into two lists because of canon vs. non-canon, we are splitting into two lists because Marvel Comics considers these to be two separate things, and we have numerous sources explaining that and why. To ignore them just because you think "they all take place in the MCU" and "it would save a lot of headache by having a single list" would be very unencyclopaedic to me, and sounds like the sort of thing that would be suggested by an editor who doesn't care about the subject matter. Which is fine, but don't cause problems for those who do care just because you don't. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:57, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I may have started going off-topic in what I originally wrote by trying to explain issues of canon or continuity. The point I meant to get across is that the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" list should only include those title that are Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comics. All of the preludes, adaptations, and infinite comics are clearly labeled as such. No where in any article or from any source or by any indication by a red stamp or otherwise are Jessica Jones #1 and Captain America: Road to War considered part of the Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comics.FBISD (talk) 20:13, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Like I said, Jessica Jones is always going to be a bit different because it is coming from the TV people, not the movie people, but for now we do have an official source saying that it is canon to the MCU, so it stays. If you want to interpret the Newsarama article as being a third party observer, observing the comic as being inspired by the MCU, then I guess I could agree with that. So, sure, go ahead and move Road to War down to the other table. But leave Jessica Jones for now. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * adamstom97, what source says that Jessica Jones #1 is canon? The only thing that I have seen that even comes close to the subject is when Bendis mentioned that the comic "is in the marvel tv universe and it celebrates the new show and the connective tissue that will build between the series". This does not mean that the comic is included as an Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comic (nor does it confirm that it is canon; in continuity perhaps, yes, but not part of the official MCU canon). I'm sorry for again getting off topic, but I was curious about this source.
 * Despite any mention of canon or continuity, I think that the list should only include those titles that are Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comics. As adamstom97 said, Jessica Jones #1 is "a bit different", most clearly, in that it is not an Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comic. Unless we have a source that says that Jessica Jones #1 is an Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In comic, it should be removed from the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" list in the article.
 * I would also like to propose a rename of the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" section, from "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" to "Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In titles". If that renaming goes against some Wikipedia rule, then I understand. However, in renaming the list to something that makes very clear what the list includes would set a precedent and would end any controversy or need to find particular sources or comments in the future on whether a comic is canon enough or in continuity enough to be included in the list. - FBISD (talk) 22:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, I think I see what the problem is. This article is not about a single series called the MCU Tie-In Comics, it is about any comic that ties-in to the MCU. There is a difference. We know that Marvel releases some to help expand the universe, and some to capitalize on the universe only, so we keep those two separate. Additionally, the Marvel TV guys have released a couple of comics themselves that tie-into their series. They aren't Official MCU Tie-In Comics, but they are comics that officially tie-into the MCU. I think I'll do a bit of reorganising and rewrite a couple of bits and then you can see what I mean. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * adamstrom97, I don't want you to have to do any extra work! I believe I understand everything you have said, however I disagree with you that any comics that are not one of the Official MCU Tie-In comics are comics "that officially tie-into the MCU". I completely understand that the article is not about a single series called the MCU Tie-In Comics, hence why we have a section called "Other titles". However, this top section titled "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles", I think, should only include those comics that are designated as Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In. It would match not only the main image on the page, but would also match what the Guidebook to the Marvel Cinematic Universe - Marvel's Iron Man calls "the canonical official Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-in comic books." As the "Marvel Cinematic Universe titles" table appears on Marvel Cinematic Universe page, I think it is important to only include what Marvel deems as official. - FBISD (talk) 23:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The distinction that Marvel has made is between comics that are part of the MCU, and comics that are inspired by it, so I have changed the titles to clarify that. I also clarified that the TV tie-ins are separate from the Official MCU Tie-In Comics, and as of now Marvel has told us that The Chase is not canon, and that Jessica Jones is "in the Marvel TV universe". So the top table now includes every comic (that we know of) set in the MCU, including the canon Official MCU Tie-In Comics (I added Doctor Strange with a new source) and Jessica Jones; while the second table includes every comic (that we know of) only inspired by the MCU, including non-canon MCU tie-in comics and The Chase. I hope that is clear. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:04, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

MCU canon comics and Title
Looks like we got confirmation on exactly what is included in the MCU canon, so I moved Jessica Jones to the "Marvel Cinematic Universe-inspired titles" section. Also, I changed the section title "Marvel Cinematic Universe-set titles" back to "Titles". I still think that that section should be named "Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In titles", as Official Marvel Cinematic Universe Tie-In is a term created by Marvel specifically to differentiate the official titles from others. Plus, those titles are the only titles that Marvel considers to be a part of the official canon and the only titles currently included in this section. Also, every comic on this page is "set" in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (which is why they are on this page). -- FBISD (talk) 18:30, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Good work with that source, it is exactly what we needed. But you are wrong about the titles: these are not all set in the MCU, with only some being official tie-ins—that is the exact opposite of what is happening here. These are all tie-ins to the MCU, because they are all some form of marketing for the films or TV series, and some of them are actually canon to the MCU and affect the universe. These are the ones that are actually set in the MCU. So the two categories are still MCU-set and MCU-inspired, and they both come under official tie-ins. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:45, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * First, we should be wary of this source, especially for something like this, because it is not a verified Twitter account (blue check mark next to the name). Second, even if we did consider this source, they just say everything in that list appears to be correct, which they don't provide, another unverified Twitter user does. That's not to say that there are some things missing or things on the list that shouldn't be there. So I wouldn't say this is total confirmation. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Favre, I must have completely misread the tweet the first time round. I was fine with the source, just because of how they are clearly the official Marvel Support page (I just took one look at their most recent tweets), but now that I look at it again, they in no way confirm that Jessica Jones is not set in the MCU, which means we should still use the BMB source. Sorry FBISD. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The original author asked if the list included "all of the current canon, and only the current canon?" and then later says that if the answer is anything other than "Yes" then to please include what needs to be added or omitted. That first post that included the list could not be more clear on the issue of an all-encompassing list without any equivocation. The official Marvel Support Twitter account responds (a full 14 days later) with "Yes", giving every indication that what is included in the original list is all of the canon, and only the canon. Had there been anything else to include or omit, the response would not have been "Yes". This absolutely confirms that Jessica Jones #1 is not included in the official MCU canon (on top of everything else).
 * In addition, yes all of the comics on this page are set in the MCU. They all take place "in" the MCU. The are all MCU stories (hence the article's title "Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-in comics"). However, the inspired comics are just not official canon. The Captain America that appears in Captain America: Homecoming is the Captain America from the MCU. The Phil Coulson in The Chase is the Phil Coulson from the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. television show. But even though the characters from these "inspired" comics are the ones from the MCU, these comics are not considered part of the official MCU canon. This quote from Brian Bendis saying that Jessica Jones #1 is "in the marvel tv universe" does not mean that it is part of the official MCU canon. He never in any way says that the comic is a part of the official MCU canon. However, the response from the official Marvel Support Twitter clearly indicates that Jessica Jones #1 is not part of the official MCU canon. -- FBISD (talk) 05:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Just because they used the word Yes, doesn't mean they exactly agree with everything said before. If you actually read what they say, you will see that they in no way confirm nor deny Jessica Jones's status. They easily could have just read the list (not the admittedly very specific question in the image), seen that everything there is official canon (which it is), and said 'Yip, looks good!'. So we just can't know. As for your stance on canonicity, that just makes no sense. If something is canon, then it is set in the universe. If something is non-canon, then it is not set in the universe, even if it might look like it. So, The Chase is an MCU tie-in comic, because it is a comic that was released as a marketing tie-in to an MCU project, but it is not actually set within the MCU continuity, just made to look like it is, so it doesn't actually have an affect on the canon of the films and TV shows. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:56, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The Chase is without any doubt a story set within the MCU continuity (as are all of the comics on this page), but it is not part of the official canon. Continuity and canon are not one in the same. Continuity is how the stories fit together. The Chase fits perfectly into the MCU (at least, at the time it was released) and includes characters from the MCU. The Coulson in The Chase has the exact same history as he did in Phase 1 and in Season 1 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. However, canon is the collection of stories. The Chase is not part of the official collection of MCU stories. To understand what is considered to be a part of the official canon, we need to look no further than the list that Marvel has confirmed. If the response from the Marvel Support Twitter account is not a good enough citation, it is still up to us (or whoever wants to update the article) to prove that Jessica Jones #1 is canon. Bendis saying that something is "in" a universe is not the same thing as saying that it is an official part of the canon. However, if we can find any official source that cites Jessica Jones #1 as canon, then obviously it will be considered canon. Again though, currently, there is no source in the article that says that it is canon, although we do now have a source saying that (by omission) it is not.
 * To hopefully further demonstrate the difference between continuity and canon (and I am doing so to continue to show where my argument is coming from, as opposed to acting as if anyone does not already understand the differences), if an MCU television show comes out in the future that directly and egregiously contradicts a previous movie, the original movie is still part of the canon as is the television show. They are official stories in the MCU, despite any questions of continuity, or how the stories fit together.
 * We also cannot guess how Marvel read the original Twitter question, other than the assumption that they read it correctly and answered it as they did. That's something we can cite. Their reading skills or comprehension are not things that we can cite. To help further prove this, in your scenario, if Marvel read only the list and not the "very specific question in the image", then why are they giving an answer? "Is the following all of the current canon, and only the current canon?" is the only question asked in the image. We absolutely do know that they were answering the single question posed in the image. -- FBISD (talk) 06:48, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Appearing to follow or being inspired by continuity, and being set in and having an affect on continuity, are not the same thing, and only the latter indicates canonicity. The Chase is without any doubt not set within the MCU, because we have been told that is the case by Marvel, but it sure does look like it, which is the point of the "inspired by" tie-ins. It's not that complicated. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:56, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Continuity does not indicate or dictate or have much of anything to do with whether something is canon. Canon only means a collection or list of stories accepted as genuine. You can have 100 MCU stories that do not follow any continuity and contradict each other every step of the way, and all 100 stories can still be considered part of the same canon. It's clear now that the confusion here comes from your incorrect usages of "canon" and "continuity". From my experience, interchangeably using the words "canon" and "continuity", or citing that the two words somehow relate to one another, is a pretty common mistake. However, continuity does not in any way define whether something is canon, and just because something is considered canon does not mean that it follows a certain continuity.
 * We have actually been told by Marvel that The Chase does take place in the MCU ("The following comic depicts a previously unseen mission of the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. When we begin, our heroes have just saved S.H.I.E.L.D. Academy from a rogue weather machine, but that victory came with a steep cost: the death of one cadet, and the ruination of another (as seen in the Season 1 episode "Seeds").") It looks like it takes place in the MCU because it does. However, it is not include in the official MCU canon. To say it a different way, The Chase is not one of the official MCU stories. It is "inspired by" the MCU, as seen by the use of characters from the MCU.
 * To hopefully continue the original call to action, if the official Marvel Support Twitter account saying that Jessica Jones #1, by omission on the list, is not canon is not a good enough source, we must still find a source that states that it is canon for it to be included in the top section of the article. -- FBISD (talk) 08:32, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Per Wikipedia, "canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in an individual universe of that story. It is often contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction." The inspired-by titles are the equivalent of fan fiction; they can seem like they fit into the canon, they can match up with the proper continuity, but they aren't actually set within the same universe, they are an alternate, what-if take.


 * The reason we are interested in what is canon to the MCU is because the creation and development of this cross-media shared universe is encyclopaedically relevant (in general, canonicity is not). It is important what is set in the MCU, regardless of how well Marvel maintains complete continuity, because of the fact that the company is establishing multiple stories and characters and environments, etc., that all inhabit the same fictional space, across different projects and even media. So that is why we always look for whether a film, TV show, or (in this case) comic is actually set in the MCU, specifically.


 * It may be unlikely that these comics will ever actually affect the films or TV shows, but they potentially can. Marvel is aware of this, which is why they decided that some of their comics aren't actually part of the MCU, they just seem like it, so they can take the versions and histories of the characters that the film audience knows and do whatever they want without worrying about adverse affects on the MCU proper. They tell fans of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., 'here is another story with those same characters, built off of particular storylines from specific episodes', but really it is just an alternate reality, a what-if that will never effect the series in any way. - adamstom97 (talk) 10:17, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I know we can not use the official Marvel Support Twiiter account as a source, but they have further tweeted about Jessica Jones #1. They very clearly say that it is MCU canon. -- FBISD (talk) 19:53, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Well things got SO incredibly murky surrounding all of this. While we still can't use any of this to source, the Marvel Support Twitter cited this article as the list to go on. That's not really okay in determining cannon or not, just given the nature of what Wikipedia is and how it operates. Yes, we've sourced things to the best of our ability, but having Marvel direct someone here, and not something on Marvel.com or provide it themselves is highly questionable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:59, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't really think it is highly questionable, just a bit more casual than we are used to. These obviously aren't some Disney PR team, they seem more like Marvel's nerd guys who spend all day trying to log people on to a faulty system. Ah well, we already have the BMB source for Jessica Jones, so I guess that this just means we can be sure ourselves that we've got everything set. By the way, this is a pretty neat endorsement, if Marvel is sending people our way rather than whipping up some sort of list themselves. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:12, 1 June 2016 (UTC)