Talk:Marvi Sirmed

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Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2020
Marvi Sirmed had been associated with liberal anti-Islamic views which are considered blasphemous by religious clerics. Is she a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods? I have seen a pic that shows her sitting in front of Hindu gods and goddess but it might be edited or fake. In fact Quran is for believers and not for those who are atheist. She can live nude like animals. She can marry as many men, at one time, as she wants. She is free to kill any number of babies before their birth 103.125.142.151 (talk) 12:44, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Yunshui 雲 水 14:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2020
Marvi Sarmad is gashtee from america Zaibikhan2020 (talk) 14:15, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Yunshui 雲 水 14:20, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

He is correct I'm her father he is gashti Marvi ka abbu (talk) 17:08, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 March 2020
Arsam Abbas Ch (talk) 23:17, 6 March 2020 (UTC) the bloodiest women in Pakistan history. She is just against Islam. She not know how much Islam religion protect women's. Islam where women's got all right. this is our some country fellow how not know there religion. And She just want to display her and other women her type. But She not know every modernism which came to Pakistan my country fellow reject that bloody.
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.	DarthFlappy (talk) 23:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Stop Editing Chutio
What the heck is wrong with you people? ItsRai (talk) 07:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

more about her
Most probably, she disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. Her pic on social media in front of Hindu gods and goddesses doesn't prove that she is Hindu as it might be edited or fake. Hindus believed in 'Satti' for the widows. All religions set some boundaries for all the human beings. She can get the freedom to live like animals only as an atheist. She can keep any number of husbands or boy friends or random bed partners. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drtmak (talk • contribs) 09:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Non-defamatory ref sources
Article history indicates, since inception of the article non neutral prejudiced defamation is being practiced in this Wikipedia article about Marvi Sirmed. Not only the article but this talk page also seems to be coming under continued hate speech against her. Any ways let us list some neutral sources of information so we can build article from scratch again.


 * https://www.prideofpakistan.com/who-is-who-detail/703
 * https://www.dw.com/en/pakistani-activist-marvi-sirmed-i-provoke-toxic-masculinity/a-52735164
 * https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2019/03/30/cfwij-condemns-death-threats-to-marvi-sirmed/
 * http://www.journalismpakistan.com/cfwij-urges-government-to-act-after-trolls-now-target-marvi-sirmed
 * https://beenasarwar.com/tag/marvi-sirmed/
 * https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/is-it-naya-pakistan20190407093641/
 * https://voiceofinternet.com/2019/06/25/tackling-fake-news-marvi-sirmed-schools-opponents-on-hiv/
 * https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/politician-calls-woman-whore-and-threatens-rape-during-women-s-rights-debate-in-pakistan-islamabad-a7084936.html
 * https://thediplomat.com/2017/02/pakistans-censorship-takes-a-dangerous-turn/
 * https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/22-Jun-2018/marvi-sirmed-s-residence-ransacked-gadgets-stolen-in-mysterious-bid
 * https://www.voanews.com/south-central-asia/pakistans-media-face-increased-crackdown-free-speech
 * http://www.tagtv.info/marvi-sirmed-reflects-on-future-of-pakistan-tag-tv/
 * https://www.globalvillagespace.com/from-threatening-sexual-assault-to-holding-hands-opposition-against-khan/
 * https://www.pakdestiny.com/bols-first-goof-labels-marvi-sarmad-raw-agent/
 * http://www.insanfoundationtrust.org/thedatabase/media-arts/marvi-sarmad/
 * https://nexttvc.com/who-is-marvi-sirmed/
 * https://reviewit.pk/shocking-history-you-dont-know-about-marvi-sirmed/
 * https://www.dawn.com/news/1265995
 * https://pakistanmediaupdates.com/top-10-persons-disliked-pakistani-people-1140.html
 * http://www.pakistanherald.com/Profile/Marvi-Sirmed-1316
 * Pakistan's Internal Security Challenges and The Army's Ability to Overcome Them By Shaman Chodha (https://books.google.co.in/books?id=IFi_DwAAQBAJ&lpg=PT138&dq=%22Marvi%20Sirmed%22&pg=PT138#v=onepage&q=%22Marvi%20Sirmed%22&f=false)
 * https://www.ned.org/fellows/marvi-sirmed/


 * https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fwn0z Marvi Sirmed presenting her case about altercation with Hafiz Hamdullah
 * https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/women-journalists-in-the-age-of-online-trolls/article27171877.ece

Marvi Sirmed Bookku (talk) 03:22, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
 * https://nation.com.pk/Columnist/marvi-sirmed articles by
 * https://nation.com.pk/14-Jun-2016/misogyny-televised
 * https://newslinemagazine.com/magazine/legitimising-misogyny/
 * https://nation.com.pk/09-Dec-2014/hypocrisy-or-mental-illness
 * https://islamicagnostic.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/valentines-day-2016/
 * https://nation.com.pk/08-Jul-2014/mind-your-language-gentlemen
 * https://nayadaur.tv/2020/03/how-khalilur-rehmans-act-of-abusing-me-on-tv-normalised-objectification-of-women/

Article getting censored
With reasonable investment of time & effort I tried to develop a balanced article within limitations of available reference sources. While it is not surprise to me that article will get censored systemically & systematically, but I did not expect the same to happen so early. Every one seem to join in censoring bit by bit one after another. I do not want to argue much but just want to leave my perception for record.

If social evils in Pakistan are intended to be hidden then censoring people need to hide attacks on Marvi Sirmed in online TV talk show & references to physical attacks on her. Rather than exposing abusive language being hurled at her as existent social evil, if Wikipedians is hiding & censoring it, are indirectly helping abusers, are they not? Ok that what is my perception.

As far as possible I will not revert any changes my self nor I will enter in any edit war. Just what do I want the other editors revisit their censorship policy and do whatever they themselves feel appropriate.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 14:29, 21 March 2020 (UTC)


 * what is being censored? It looks like removed some of what you added because it was a copyright violation. On Wikipedia you can't copy text from other sources (with very rare exception). That's not censored -- just following copyright law. If you're talking about something else, I'd be curious to hear it. I'm not familiar with this person and am not very familiar with Pakistani sources, but am happy to help out somewhat. I've made some copyedits for readability, but the article needs work. It's always a bad sign to see a giant "controversies" section. A good step may be to reframe to separate, as much as possible, her advocacy work from the way people have responded to it? Not sure. &mdash;  Rhododendrites  talk \\ 16:50, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

slang
Regarding this edit, I'm not sure I understand. The word is right there in the source. As Wikipedia is WP:NOTCENSORED, it seems sensible to include. Maybe I misunderstand your intention? &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 16:59, 21 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, I searched this person name on google news with "Prostitute" and "Randi" and cant a find a single source claiming her to be Randi or something like that. Actually Randi means whore/characterless and its a biography of a women. We can add it if other news sources of Pakistan also called but you will not find as i said. I also not believe in censoring but this article is in the eyes of hatred persons since few days, today i read it (just like reading other Pakistani articles) and found too harsh wordings thats why this page takes my attention. IWMbizz (talk) 17:04, 21 March 2020 (UTC), Also please see


 * Regarding the source, it is here, on page 111: "The comment section for this YouTube video was brief but filled with hatred against Sirmed and Syed. ...Sirmed was called a 'randi' (a prostitute) for defending gays and distorting the image of Islam."
 * I do not feel strongly that we must include the word "randi," however. That just amplifies the words of some random YouTube commenter, IMO. I am ok to just leave it at "attacks".
 * I'm not sure what you mean by "this article is in the eyes of hatred persons since few days". It sounds like you're saying someone has been pushing an agenda, but I'm not sure which. What I'm concerned with is that the sources we use are reliable and that we're presenting a neutral summary of those sources. Routledge is a quite solid publisher of academic books, so this particular book I am not concerned about. As for the rest, I don't know. I do see that there's some non-neutral language (lots of use of the word "hate" for example, which is usually too strong to be in Wikipedia's voice as opposed to in a quote), but I think it can be cleaned up. We will see. :) &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I am OK with your efforts :) Thank You for your rewordings and i also remove one poorly sourced info because the reference was not reliable according to wikipidea policies. I must say the controversy section should be properly referenced with strong news sources. Earlier this article was just a mess with huge unsourced hate speeches. Thanking You for take a time and work on it. IWMbizz (talk) 17:26, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This is where it is hard for me. I can help as an independent editor who's been around a while, but others will know better than I about the reputation of these sources. I'll be back online later today. Perhaps I'll try to do some research then. Thanks to all for your efforts on this page. In case people haven't noticed, it has received 431,000 views in the last month (!!). &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:37, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Threats
Regarding this. I think this may be a misreading. "threatened with death and sexual violence" means someone wrote a threat, not that any sexual violence actually occurred. I'm not sure it helps, but I added a "both" to make it clear that "threatened" applies to both terms. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 17:18, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Year of birth
The reference in the lead and the one under Early life and education both give her year of birth as 1970. I did not see where 1961 was referenced. I have, therefore, changed the date in the lead, the infobox and the category to 1970. Oronsay (talk) 19:27, 21 March 2020 (UTC)


 * 1970 seems more logical to me, since in one Tag TV interview she says around 1979 Zia time she was a young kid.
 * Thanks Bookku (talk) 02:58, 22 March 2020 (UTC)