Talk:Marvin Bush

Untitled
how do you run yourself over with your own car?

obviously a piece of that needs to move to another page when it exists...

oh, foo. I liked "September Eleventh" (Do you remember the day you first heard the capital E?...neither do i, but I heard it =) -- Kwantus

is this true?
Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served. [Utne] According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."

The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites."

Changes since 911 Loose Change 2nd ed was released
It's interesting to note that all the mentions of links between Marvin Bush and the 9/11 killings have been removed. The screenshot of this page used in the video 911 Loose Change 2nd edition is quite different than the current page.

In fact, given the current Dubai Ports World "discussions" entertaining the body politic, it's even more interesting that the following was removed without comment from this page (but is preserved in less freely-editable versions of the page):

"Marvin sat on the boards of both HCC and Securacom/Stratesec at the same time, and both companies had a commercial interest in the World Trade Center complex. This information is required to be disclosed through SEC proxy filings but was not http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1037453/0000928385-99-001383.txt http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/888919/0001047469-99-016818.txt.

The proxy for Stratesec also omitted Marvin Bush's directorship at Fresh Del Monte Produce (FDP), a company run by Mohammed Abu-Ghazale hhttp://www.freshdelmonte.com/content.cfm?pageID=56, who has a business background in several middle eastern countries, including Dubai and Kuwait. No SEC investigations into the omission of the required proxy disclosures are publicly known."

It could be argued that Abu-Ghazale's involvement with Dubai is unrelated to Marvin Bush. However, the timing of the removal is strange.


 * Haha. Yeah. That's why I came to this article. savidan(talk) (e@) 14:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Can anyone establish whether or not this is a fact about Marvin Bush? The links above show that it was not recorded in SEC proxy filings, so they are no help. Can anyone cite a reference that would enable this to be put back into the article, so that any subsequent removal can legitimately be reverted? 203.217.72.38 05:32, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, I just clicked on the SEC proxy filing listings above, and they show Marvin was a director. Therefore why shouldn't this be inserted back into the article? I quote:


 * Marvin P. Bush (4)(5)  shares 100,564    1.7%
 * Marvin P. Bush, age 41, has served as a director of the Company since 1993.Mr. Bush is a director of Winston Partners Group, Inc., a private investment firm he founded in 1994, and has been a member of the Board of Directors of Kerrco Inc., an oil and gas company, since 1989. Prior to founding the Winston Group, Mr. Bush was a partner at John Stewart Darrell & Company, an investment advisory firm, and was employed by Shearson Lehman as a Vice President/Financial Consultant.
 * 203.217.72.38 05:40, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds reliable enough that someone should put the bit about Securacom/Stratesec back in. Apparently there are also sources to back up the fact that Stratesec handled security for the WTC, but someone needs to verify the dates. 67.171.215.253 23:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

"Barbara Bush's Memoirs"?
"Marvin Bush and Securacom/Stratesec were in charge of security at the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport, and United Airlines during a two year contract which was set to end on September 10th, 2001, only a day before the 9/11 attacks."

Marvin Bush was reported as a director of the company Securacom/Stratesec until June 2000; claiming he was in charge of the security at the World Trade Center is an exaggeration, like saying that Robert Rubin builds automobiles (he's on the board of Ford Motor Company).

The citation for the claim that the contract was due to expire on September 10, 2001 is "Barbara Bush's Memoirs". This contradicts the citation in [9/11 Conspiracy Theories ] which says:

"This last statement has been used by some conspiracy theorists to say that the contract "expired" on September 11, 2001. Barbara Bush confirmed this theory in her book 'Reflections' also stating 9/11 was the day the contract expired."

So which is it? Barbara Bush's A Memoir or Barbara Bush's Reflections? My best guess is neither. A Memoir was published in 1994, well before the events of 9-11. Reflections was published in 2003, and contains a short chapter on September 2001 (the book mostly covers 1993-2000). There is no discussion in that chapter of Marvin's board work; the mention of him being in the subway under Wall Street on 9-11 is confirmed. A search of the book on Amazon for "contract" returned zero mentions, as did "expired", "Stratesec" and "Securacom".

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.72.38 (talk • contribs)


 * I agree completely, this article is full of rubbish. It is ok to put uncited material into an article when it is not suspect, but this is clearly dubious at best.  Read this blog article for more information.  Nathan J. Yoder 11:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Article for Deletion?
Well if this article is full of rubbish, and if no one has the ability, time, or inclination to at least remove what is plausibly non-factual, then perhaps we should just delete the article entirely. Hi There 15:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't delete it, facts will become clearer in the future (whatever they are)


 * I also vote against deletion. The article contains plenty of facts about a notable person.  For those facts you care to dispute, please do your duty as an editor and improve the article.  204.42.27.8 00:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * For years now this page has been a dumping ground for crazy ideas. Any useful information in this article should be merged with a relevant article.Mantion (talk) 12:12, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Disagree. I've been watching the article for years. Poorly sourced information doesn't stick, and he is a notable person.  -Jord gette  [talk]  18:36, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Dead babysitter
Interesting circumstances surround the accidental death of Marvin Bush's babysitter, Champagne, September 29, 2003 "found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. [She] reportedly lived at the Bush family home. " Source: http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/10-16-03/discussion.cgi.16.html. Although I tend to agree the younger Bush's various business connections to security firms involved in 9/11 is more interesting. It is odd the way accidental death surrounds the Bush family. Although there have been far more non-accidental deaths as a direct result. Would any editor or contributor care to write up the information about the Marvin Bush family babysitters unusual death at the Bush family residence and add it to the article? 204.42.27.8 00:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

No mention of Marvin Bush in fathers G.H.W.Bush article
Why has there been no mention of and no link to Marvin Bush on his fathers pages for all this time? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.172.204.59 (talk) 14:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

'Controversy' section
This section claims that Marvin Bush is of interest to 9/11 conspiracy theorists because of his 'links' to the World Trade Center. This is the kind of statement that really needs to be sourced; who exactly has said this? How notable are these claims? If no references can be provided about the 'Marvin Bush-World Trade Center connection' from reliable sources, then according to the WP:BLP policy the claim must be removed. Terraxos (talk) 17:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This has no business on the page, as there are no citations. Additionally, even if it is reported on some conspiracy theory web site, one has to make sure that their claims are supported by reliable sources. Slapazoid (talk) 05:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Many people seem to come to this page hearing about his alleged connection to 911 in the Loose Change video. A possible middle ground between promoting unverified conspiracy theories and barely mentioning his involvement with Stratesec could be: "Marvin was a board member of the security company Stratesec whose clients included the World Trade Center but had ceased involvement in 2000 before the 911 attacks occurred." 22yearswothanks (talk) 14:57, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not in favor of giving this nonsense the time of day.  -Jord gette  [talk]  17:17, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Send that to the 9/11 Conspiracy theories articles, and add a disclaimer telling readers why it's total WP:CB. -User:DanTD (talk) 07:36, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Date of photograph
while I agree in general that Martin looks a little too old to be 9, there are a couple of points I'd like to make:


 * 1) It doesn't matter whether you think the date on the photo is right or not - the reliable source which provides the photo gives the date as 1966, and there is no reliable source I can find which contradicts this. Thus we must take the date as 1966. Though of course, it's completely valid to not give the date in the article if there is doubt about the correctness of this; I'm not going to dispute that. But to say the date 'can't be 1966' without any solid evidence other than 'they don't look young enough' when we're talking about a possible difference of a few years isn't great practice, in my opinion.
 * If, as you say, this was instead from the 1979 campaign, then Dorothea would have been 20 years old (which I think both of us can agree is not the case in the photo). Did you mean 1969?

What do you think? — Jumbo T (talk) 16:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC)


 * 1. I don't think this source is reliable with regards to the dates of the pictures at all. Take a look at their pictures HS437 and HS870. Two pictures of the family posing with elephants clearly from the same day, yet they are dated by the library to different years, despite the children appearing in both pictures looking the exact same age and wearing the exact same outfits. We really shouldn't blindly assume their dating to be correct. Don't forget that analogue pictures don't have dating by the camera, so the only information the archiver(s) had is either something written on those pictures, information related to them by the people depicted on them and else just their own estimates. That process is very prone to mistakes and we should not just assume correctness by default.
 * 2. I made a typo when writing 1979. I meant to state 1970, when HW had his senatorial campaign. At that point Dorothea would have been 11, Marvin 13-14 and Neil around 15. That matches with how they appear in that picture.
 * These are my thoughts.Tvx1 18:35, 23 January 2023 (UTC)