Talk:Mary's Club/Archive 1

To confirm

 * I added the article to the category "1954 establishments in Oregon", but really the business may have been established earlier. Did Keller purchase "Mary's Club", or did he start a new business? -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 19:30, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I removed the article from the category "1954 establishments in Oregon", based on the prose, which says the club had a "pre-1954 era". Year of establishment TBD. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I am going back and forth on this. Thoughts on whether or not the article should be included in the category "1954 establishments in Oregon", the year it was purchased by Keller and transformed into the business that still exists today? -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 04:39, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Also, I included "Roy Keller (1954–2006), Vicki Keller (2006–present)" under the "Owners" parameter in the infobox, though confirmation is required as to whether Keller still owned the business in 2006, when he died at age 90, or if he transferred the business to his daughter before then. Just making notes here. Thanks! - Another Believer ( Talk ) 19:33, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

You didn't happen to come across info about the business before Mary Duerst Hemming took over ownership, did you? If the info isn't available, that's fine, but right now there is detail about when the business was actually established. Even a decade would be helpful. Thought I would ask! -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 19:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * No. What was it called before it became Mary's Club? Finetooth (talk) 21:02, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure. Perhaps it was even called "Mary's" if her husband named it after her. Thanks for responding. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:06, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

To Do: Interior photograph. I'm scared! (Not really, but just a little...) -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:33, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You might as well cross that one off the list since it's probably not allowed. Viriditas (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Good article
I am co-nominating this article for good status, along with User:Finetooth, who also worked to expand this article. I was not sure which GAN subcategory to associate this article with. Is there one for business? Is this culture and society? I went with "miscellaneous" for the time being. I believe this article meets good article criteria, and with a bit more expansion, could even meet featured article criteria. First strip club FA, anyone? (I admit that I plugged a few of the outstanding sources into the external links section, but they do not really include content that is not incorporated in some way already, and this should not affect good standing.) I cannot request a copy edit by GOCE yet (I have reached the request limit), but will do so as soon as possible. I look forward to the GOCE and GA reviews. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Another Believer, I would place it under "Economics and business" because it is only an informal landmark. However, if it was official, it might go under "Culture, sociology and psychology". Viriditas (talk) 03:49, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion! Done. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 03:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

User:Another Believer, for consistency please add the year of release to Dangerous Pursuit in the following sentence: "Films that include scenes shot at Mary's include Bongwater (1997), Brainsmasher... A Love Story (1993) and Dangerous Pursuit (1990)." I realize that it's only a made-for-TV film, but these days, all works are treated the same in terms of adding release dates. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 09:02, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for the reminder. This was not a purposeful omission on my part. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 15:20, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

IMO, you've got too many direct quotes and not enough paraphrasing. The quotes are necessary in some instances, such as describing an important opinion by a notable person about the club. But for the most part, there's too many of them that aren't needed, and this interferes with the flow of the prose and the enjoyment of the reader. See if you can identify unimportant quotes that can be eliminated and adequately paraphrased. Viriditas (talk) 20:47, 17 April 2014 (UTC) -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:38, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Edits to the History section
 * Edits to the Murals section
 * That's a good start, but be careful that you don't accidentally introduce plagiarism by simply removing quotes without also paraphrasing in your own words. Remember to rewrite and rephrase when you remove the quotes. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I am making what I believe to be good edits. Do feel free to improve further as you see fit. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 00:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I won't be editing this article. I came here from GAN in the hopes of reviewing it.  FWIW, the page history shows you removing quotes from "for more than 20 years" and "tattooed contortionist entertainers".  If all you did is remove the quotes without paraphrasing, then we generally consider that inadvertent plagiarism.  That's why you have to be careful and always rewrite and paraphrase appropriately. Viriditas (talk) 00:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I was not sure how to re-word "for more than 20 years", so I figured maybe that is something that is generic enough to not require quotation marks. If "tattooed contortionist entertainers" is specific enough to require quotes, that's fine. I am just trying to learn the boundary here. I went ahead and reverted to the original state (before my attempt to correct). Will try again when I have time. -- Another Believer  ( Talk ) 01:12, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Should these require quotes? Thanks, truly, for any feedback. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 01:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The former owner was Mary Duerst Hemming, who won the piano bar in a divorce settlement and operated the business "for more than 20 years" …?
 * He introduced "pasties-clad topless dancers" in 1955
 * She was said to excel in discothèque, "shaking and undulating" to the…? Or, change to simply "dancing to the…"?
 * Keller, said to resemble "a church deacon", praised his dancers…?
 * I assume from above that "tattooed contortionist entertainers" should remind in quotes.
 * Does this diff look ok?
 * Any problematic sentences in the Reception section?