Talk:Mary Fahl

Distinguishing between OP and November Project
Except for the fact that it was formed by two former members of October Project, the band November Project was not connected to, derived from or an extension of October Project. It was as separate from OP as were Fahl's solo work or Belica's Decembergirl. The suggestions of "rejoining" and "replacing" are inappropriate in this context.

Sometime in 2001, after November Project disbanded, three former members of OP reunited under the name "October Project," which is the current status of OP (as of 2007).

MezzoForte 23:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Faldermeyer?
I added her birth name to the intro after someone put it in the infobox. Where can one find a source for that? (Or is Fahl a married name?) --Idont Havaname (Talk) 00:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe Fahl is her artistic name, a short way for Fa(h)l-dermeyer, but I will search for more info. I made a little change, leaving her real name at the end. I am also inclined to remove her birthday since it is already in the infobox.--Cefaro (talk) 03:03, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Surname & Birthdate
The surname Faldermeyer, its association with the the other members of OP (specifically with Adler & Flanders, with whom she evidently wrote a song entitled, "San Martino," but also with Sabatino and outside writer Byrne), and the year of her birth (1958) are available in documentation at the US Copyright Office, discoverable on the internet at: http://bulk.resource.org/copyright/hids/hid_09/hid_09362100-09362399.txt Date of birth (July 1, 1958) is also available at the municipal Registrar of Vital Statistics. Month and day are also confirmed anecdotally from those in attendance at OP concerts at which her birthday was announced.

I invite the user Mermaid5000 to explain his/her reasons for the repeated deletion of such information, and other verifiable text in the main article. Absent a satisfactory justification, Mermaid5000 would be compelled to reinstate the information, or to allow its proper reinstatement. MezzoForte (talk) 17:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Minor edits to major rewrite
Thank you for your attention. Let's proceed edit by edit:

1. "lyricist" -- Flanders was at the time, and still is, a lyricist. There are no previous references to her or her function in OP in this article. This clarifies.

2. "Flanders' " -- This is the proper possesive of any name ending in the letter s.

3. "collaborator" -- At the time, Adler had been Flanders' collaborator for at least ten years, and still is. The epithet "boyfriend" would require citation, and borders on bias by possessing a tone of condescension.

4. "fledgling" -- Also biased in tone, and inaccurate. Adler had already received a Masters in composition, wrote for the theater, and for many years had written/produced for television and industrials.

5. "guitarist" -- Sabatino was at the time, and still is, a guitarist. There are no previous references to him or his function in OP in this article. This clarifies.

6. "they" -- Although Flanders was not at the time a performer in OP, there has never been a version of OP that did not include her as a member. The version of OP that performed as a trio was reportedly very short-lived (a single house concert?)

7. "they" (replacing "the threesome") -- The band at the time had four members.

8. "vocalist" -- Belica was at the time, and still is, a vocalist. There are no previous references to her or her function in OP in this article. This clarifies.

9. "coffee house" -- A correction of the typo "coffeeshouse."

10. "In" -- The title of OP's second album is "Falling Farther In," not "Falling Farther." I inverted the sentence simply to vary it from the preceding sentence. I'm not married to it.

11. "occasionally" -- My memory is that Fahl (and therefore OP) was indeed co-opted by the Goth culture, but that it was not by any means the media's primary association. In any event, the quotation requires citation. In lieu of deleting it, I was simply ameliorating the statement. Also, the prepositional phrase that opens the sentence refers to Fahl (not the media), so the sentence needed to be grammatically corrected. I'm not married to this either.

12. "Goth" is capitalized when referring to the movement.

13. As you've noted, the band is called "October Project;" no "The."

14. "says" -- A correction of the typo "say."

15. "usually in collaboration" -- More accurate. As you cite later in the article, Fahl "shares writing credits on 12 of the 14 tracks on album." This is in fact the norm.

16. "potential copyvio image" -- The owner of the image kindly placed it limit-free on WikiMedia Commons.

MezzoForte (talk) 14:39, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * MezzoForte, I removed my name from your header since it's technically incorrect. That's the second time this month someone's "credited" me for someone else's work. I believe did a major rewrite of this article. As for reverting your previous edits, I am so sorry and I do apologize: It was (extremely) late at night, and I was looking at the wrong column on the diffs page, if you'll believe that. All the typos and grammatical errors you were correcting, I saw it as being backwards and that you were making it worse. I'm truly sorry, I was not paying attention. Your changes are definitely welcome and I wouldn't have reverted them were I not being stupid. Sorry for also wasting your time in creating this list, then. I never proofread the article after Sloggerbum finished his edits, so I had no idea how many errors there were. Hope you accept my apologies. – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 18:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much, Keraunoscopia, you're note is tremendously appreciated. No need to apologize. I believe that Wikipedians of your stature and integrity are always acting in good faith. Onward. MezzoForte (talk) 19:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks MezzoForte. And just an extra note on the image, just a few moments ago, I found the source of the band photo from an online press kit (last page), and have tagged the image accordingly, so unfortunately, it's not available for free use. Take care – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 19:16, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

October Project image arbitrary break
Keraunoscopia, I am informed that the copyright owner (S. Lowy) has placed the image in WikiMedia Commons for free use, as is apparently his right. Its former use in an EPK does not disallow it. Since I have no reason to doubt him, and since you seem to have the resources to verify such action, I would greatly appreciate it if, once satisfied, you would remove the tag and restore the image to its original place both here and in the OP entry. Thanks. MezzoForte (talk) 23:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi MezzoForte, the image was deleted from Commons by an administrator. Press images are not necessarily automatically released under a free license, unless there is proof that the image has been licensed as such. I acted in accordance with commons:Commons:Permission, whereby OTRS confirmation is necessary when an image looks too professional to be created by an amateur photographer. SlowPort's other upload (File:OP_in_NC.jpg) looked much more like an amateur photograph and did not match the style of the more professional image.


 * The situation can easily be remedied if the uploader, SlowPort, is Mr. S. Lowy himself and, to a greater extent, the copyright holder, or if SlowPort is working with Mr. Lowy's permission. If this is the case, the image can be undeleted if he provides declaration of consent for the image to OTRS. You can read more about this at commons:COM:OTRS. Mr. Lowy should also understand that this means the uploaded image can thence be used for commercial purposes by any downstream users and he will not be entitled to any royalties or compensation. However, because the image is used on the splash page of October Project's website, it may be that the image was created as work-for-hire and the band or its management retains the copyright, not the photographer. – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 04:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I requested the image be undeleted. My rationale for this was because I remembered the image was much larger in size than the PDF image, so apparently it could have been an original image file. But it's a fuzzy situation about who uploaded it and whether it's really under a free license (the press kit image has "©2002 Steven Lowy" embedded on the image). This told me that Steven Lowy may own the copyright to the image, not October Project. I emailed him at his website and am awaiting a reply. If I don't hear from him, I will re-contact him with a more detailed email (my original email did not include any URL links so it wouldn't be blocked by spam filters). If the image is his and he is okay with releasing it under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 (unported) license, as SlowPort has done, then I'll request he sign a Wikipedia-authorized declaration of consent, which I'll send to OTRS for verification and the image will be a fantastic addition to Commons. Thanks for your patience with this, MezzoForte. – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 21:42, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Last update: I got in touch with Steven Lowy and he was not the uploader of the image. He presumed it was someone affiliated with October Project. Unfortunately, SlowPort has not responded to the notices on his talk page, so there's nothing we can really do. We don't know who uploaded the image or if they had the right to license the image for free use, and if there's no response by June 14, the image will most likely be removed. Sorry :( – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 09:05, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Image removed and deleted. Mr. Lowy confirmed that he is the copyright holder who has licensed the image to be used by the band with attribution, but certainly not freely by anyone else outside of October Project. Sorry if that's frustrating to anyone, but at least the issue was resolved. – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 21:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Glad it all worked out! MezzoForte, you must hate me, but at least the image is now certifiably released under CC : ) – Kerαu noςco pia ◁ gala xies 01:15, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi MezzoForte, fantastic work getting such a great photo for the October Project page! However, if you'd like to add a pic of the October Project onto the Mary Fahl entry, please make sure it includes the individual in question. The Bradley Nowell page doesn't include a photo of Sublime after he left, nor does the Layne Staley page include a later photo of Alice in Chains. The same concept applies to this musician's entry as well. Happy editing!  Sloggerbum  ( talk ) 20:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

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I've changed the outbound link to 'Love & Gravity', as it landed on a different album of the same title by the band Blackhawk (here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%26_Gravity ). I've changed the prospective page address to Love & Gravity. Better to redlink for the time being, or someone could just delete it if it was felt that no separate page is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.225.11.85 (talk) 21:54, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

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External links modified (January 2018)
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