Talk:Mary Lou Lord

Untitled
This article has turned out nicely and I'm glad to have helped contribute to it. 172.128.200.81 00:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, very nice work, exept that MLL was born in 1965, not 1970.

== It's a shame she wasn't around for Ian Curtis or Michael Hutchence. Or Budd Dwyer and Socrates, for that matter.

Kurt Cobain
I've changed the faintly silly sounding "She allegedly knew Kurt Cobain" to the more accurate "She was Kurt Cobain's girlfriend". Since I don't believe anyone involved (Lord herself, Courtney Love, or other Nirvana members) dispute this I don't see anything controversial about it, especially given that for better or worse it's probably what she's best known for. Irides cent 13:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

'I have a strong memory from around this time of meeting a besotted Kurt going on and on about this girl called Mary Lou Lord, how in love with her he was, and how he was going to move to Boston to be with her.'

Of course, that's written by Everett True, who isn't the most trustworthy source, but still.

Courtney isn't the most trustworthy source, either. Is there a source for the Dave Grohl quote? If so, there should be a link to the quote. It sounds very out of character for Grohl to say. He's basically avoided gossiping about Kurt, and by his own admission, they weren't close.

198.54.202.246 18:32, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

That Lord alleged she had a relationship with Cobain is an accurate and factual statement. It does not infer that she either did, or did not. It simply states that their is not enough information to corroborate Lord's view of what that relationship was about, if anything. The facts that we know are simple. During Cobain's lifetime the only comment he made that points to him having any manner of involvement with Lord was the letter that appeared in the oston Phoenix. The 'Mary' he refers to may, or may not be Lord. Secondly, Lord only made her claim after Cobain's death which could reasonably be interpreted as opportunistic embellishment and suspect. In any case Cobain being deceased could not comment one way or another. The other poster in calling Lord Cobain's "girlfriend" and then saying that this is "accurate" is merely their opinion, and this is not opinionpedia or ithinkthismayhavehappenedepedia. We are dealing with facts. The facts are as follows:

Sometime before or after Cobain's death, Mary Lou Lord claimed that she was involved in a relationship with him, but was very vague and offered few specifics other that he was in Boston at the time and they met in Boston's Kenmore Square. Some sources state that she made these claims before Cobain's death.

No photographs of the two of them together are known to exist.

Few people claim to have seen the two of them together.

Courtney Love and Dave Grohl have both made comments to the affect that Cobain did indeed meet Lord and that he was very drunk in Kenmore Square and received oral sex from a very creepy girl named 'Mary' who he had met that night. The Phoenix letter is also consistent with this, but the authenticity of the letter may be questioned.

I think it is reasonable to surmise, at the very least, that Cobain and Lord had at least one sexual encounter, and possibly, though hardly certain, a very short term relationship. I don't think you could say factually that she was his girlfriend, but neither can you refute it. In conclusion I'd say that she can not be reasonably defined as a former girlfriend of Cobain's give the scarcity of information, as well as contradicting accounts.

I don't see what's been the big confusion all of these years. Kurt met Mary Lou around late September 1991,very shortly before 'Nevermind' was released. He and Mary Lou dated for about a month,then shortly Courtney came back in his life. He may have been going out with both of them for a short lil' while. Mary Lou later surprised Kurt in England at the very beginning of the European 'Nevermind' tour. Kurt and Courtney's relationship began to evolve and he hadn't really broken up with Mary Lou. Courtney and Hole later played the same time Mary and Kurt were in London. Someone in the audience,or maybe while being interviewed referred to Mary as his 'girlfriend'.

She called him up,really pissed of and asked him 'Who the fuck is Mary Lou Lord and why are people telling me she's your girlfriend?' Kurt somehow managed to deny having a relationship with Mary,and basically told Courtney that Lord met him one time in Boston and gave him a blowjob.

I don't really think Courtney knew who Mary even was. Since while Kurt was still alive Dave would also repeat the blowjob story when she asked him some short time later.

If there is no source for the Dave Grohl quote, I think it should be deleted. It sounds very out of character for him. Also, Courtney chased Mary Lou Lord out of a party in 1994. (This was the launch party for Hole's "Live Through This" album, which came out in 1994.) The date should be fixed.

The whole thing smacks of tabloid journalism anyway. It might be relevant biographically that there was _some_ relationship between MLL and KC, but is it really necessary to waste these electrons on all the gory details? I agree that the Dave Grohl "quote" should either be authenticated or stricken (and even if it can be authenticated, who is to say that Dave Grohl is the ultimate arbiter of reality on KC's love life? Was he present to contradict Everett True's first-hand accounts?).

"Kurt met Mary, and they dated for about a month"?? What's the source for this?? Because you say so? Well not according to Kurt, on his lifetime, and not according to his wife. In essence you have the word of a man now dead, a woman he was married to, and another woman who can't produce one single photograph of herself and her alleged "boyfriend", not one note-nothing! You would at least expect a photograph, given that the two were both semi-famous at the time. All we have is MLL talking about this "relationship" an awful lot after Cobain's death, which some may take as the worst kind of opportunism.

My personal opinion is that they did have a very short termed relationship that Cobain regretted, when it became clear that MLL thought she was his "girlfriend". The letter that is allegedly from Cobain mentions this "creepy girl" named Mary. Oddly enough, MLL has been described as "creepy" by at least one journalist, and people I know who have met her. I just find that interesting, especially when that term is usually used for males.

Proof?

On the other hand, Courtney Love is quite a distressing individual and I could imagine her intimidating Cobain into silence about a personal matter. Even so, Cobain could have ditched Courtney for MLL, but he make the choice not to. That being the case, one would surmise that there was not much of a relationship between the two to start with.

I am guessing that most men would prefer Mary Lou Lord over Courtney Love in terms of looks. But maybe Courtney was the love of his life. Clearly Kurt did not want Mary being known as his "girlfriend", so perhaps she should stop talking about it all together. Based on what we know, Kurt wanted nothing to do with her, despite stunts like her "suprising him" (in other words, stalking him) by showing up unannounced when he was playing overseas.

Examples of this? Why wasn't this in the rock press?

Mary has a great husband, and a beautiful child. She should forget about Cobain. This is a man who left his own child an orphan. He was a very troubled young man. Let the dead rest.

Mary Lou has never talked about Cobain in interviews. What makes you think she hasn't let the dead rest? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Well that is a reasonably well taken point about Grohl. Grohl's comments, at best, would be essentially hearsay, unless he witnessed the Kenmore Square incident firsthand (And I that would be unlikely in the extreme, and just downright bizarre!) I did come across an interesting, somewhat ribald photo of a bare chested MLL covered with various backstage passes, one of which is an 'All Access' pass for the Nirvana 'Nevermind' tour. This seems to imply that she is being honest about having some sort of relationship with Cobain, but then again, you can purchase these off of eBay for a few dollars!

Where?!

Everett True remembers hearing Kurt mention Mary--and not in a derogatory way, either. Mary Lou herself barely talked about Cobain--it all came from Courtney. MLL has come off as generally low-key, and there are no reports of her being ostracized in the indie community. Where is the solid proof that she's a creepy stalker? By "proof" I mean "sources other than that pathological liar, Courtney Love."


 * In my opinion, this whole discussion ist terrible (and I'd rather like to use a different word). Mary Lou Lord is a fine musician and certainly no groupie or such. Okay, Cobain and C. Love are famous tabloid figures (apart from being musicians as well), but it is NOT a prominent feature of Lord's life or work that she has either performed fellatio and Cobain or was his girlfriend (or both). The way the article looks now, this stuff is way too prominent! Also, it is placed in the wrong spot, since quite obviously the relationship with Cobain is not relevant to Lord's career. I propose to cut this stuff down to half its size and place it at the end of the article under "Trivia". Bernie, --82.135.81.147 23:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Recent deletions
It looks like something Mary Lou herself wrote about her relationship with Kurt and her wikipedia article is going around the blogs. It incites people to edit her wiki page for her, so an eye should probably be kept on the article for the next while.

I reverted the deletion of the paragraph about her and Kurt, since no explanation was given. It was well-source and, as people have written above, it's a legitimate matter of historical interest, and probably what she's best known for (at least to a wide audience). Dindon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:54, 17 February 2010 (UTC).

I saw no references to Lord claiming to have had a romantic relationship with Cobain, and if that wording is to be re-added or restored, then a reference to substantiate that will be needed. Specifically, this may be a semantics issue - Lord claims to have a friend-relationship with Cobain, and in http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/36467-just-the-fax/ they are inferring a romantic relationship, but not specifying such, and a second-hand paraphrasing is hardly a hard reference for a contentious fact; therefor Lord being rumored to have claimed such may be a more appropriate statement. Until there is a reference that explicitly states that Lord claimed a romantic relationship, re-adding that wording may be considered libellous. ThanAngell (talk) 03:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * That Lord claims to have had a brief romantic relationship with Cobain is easily sourced, and Courtney Love's description of said relationship as "she once gave Kurt a blow job and has built her career on it" is also easily citable. What one defines as a "romantic relationship" as opposed to "friends who had a sexual relationship on at least one occasion" is up for debate, but that both Lord and Love concur that there was at the minimum a one-night-stand between Lord and Cobain is clear. – iride  scent  11:15, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * A "one night stand" may be quoted out of context and a reference to the more platonic one night stand of Sept 23, 1991? Again, this article infers a romantic relationship, and albeit their friendship had romantic overtones, but I have yet to see a direct quote from Lord claiming any relationship beyond friendship. ThanAngell (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * That Love claimed there was a blow job involved is not a contentious fact. That that claim is based on any fact is in contention. Does this nasty rumor started by Love belong in a living person's Bio? This fact should only be brought in in context of Love and Lord's rivalry, as Lord said sarcastically in New Music, "She was the best publicist I ever had". The fact that Love made this claim may say more about her, that she may not know there are ways to a man's heart other than his penis. ThanAngell (talk) 00:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I think we may be saying the same thing in different ways. It's always going to be a tricky one to cover fairly; an article on MLL that omits the feud with CL entirely would be perverse, as it's undeniably a significant part of her biography and her (working) relationship with Cobain needs to be mentioned. Implying that CL is telling the truth implies that MLL is lying, and vice-versa, so whatever happens there's a BLP violation against someone. My personal preference would be an intentionally ambiguous wording like "[MLL & KC] had a relationship". – iride  scent  14:09, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I reduced the size of the paragraph about Lord and Cobain; now it is more in line with the depth of detail in the rest of her bio. I think the issue could be a section or article to itself if anyone wants to go into great detail about it.ThanAngell (talk) 21:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I have edited the Cobain section to reflect the fact that lord waited over 15 years to refute the very very well established rumor. Ridernyc (talk) 19:28, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

The Day Mary Lou gave me a dollar
I was 19 years old learning the ropes of busking in around the red line in Harvard square .I was playing a Cat Stephens song morning has broken seems Mary was hoping to catch the spot I was in but she was friendly and gave me a dollar tip. Im sure it was hard earned .I was on that Christian trip at the time playing songs from a gospel scrap book .The guitar I was playing was given to me from a guy in a christian cult strange how thing work out ,It was an http://www.alvarezguitars.com/ small Little acoustic .I would later see Her playing all along the Red line must have been allot harder for a women but she seemed good at shrugging of rudeness she got real good at stairway to heaven I recall I was to shy to get to know her as a friend I was a little Intimidated since I was a new guy on the block Its a hard enough business to crack .I do remember Mary taught me how to save strings to the bitter end buy saving the ends and wrapping them in a circle at the top and I got so good i would retie the little metal piece at the end .RasNathan (talk) 22:43, 5 April 2012 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by RasNathan (talk • contribs) 22:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

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