Talk:Mary Rose/2017/January

World's Oldest Sea Dog & The Mary Rose
Recently, I learned from a podcast about "Hatch", the world's oldest sea dog, the remains of which have been found. Hatch's skeleton was recovered from the Mary Rose. The assembled skeleton, has been a very popular exhibit, has been on display in a prestigious dog show and also has been a motif for fund-raising. Imho, the dog needs to be mentioned somewhere in this FA.

Ref : Skeleton of world's oldest sea dog 'Hatch' found on the Mary Rose goes on display at Crufts.

AshLin (talk) 13:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, this is an article about the Mary Rose in general, and it doesn't seem as if "Hatch" has any worthwhile significance to the ship itself. The Daily Mail article certainly isn't telling us other than "old ratter dog skeleton" (aside from the speculation and fluff that is). Do you have a source that is more substantial?
 * Peter Isotalo 15:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, there are a few more reliable sources, though anything very "substantial" would probably not be forthcoming.
 * Dog skeleton from Mary Rose displayed in Portsmouth (BBC News)
 * Hatch the dog returns to the Mary Rose after 500 years (Culture24)
 * The Mary Rose Dog (Natural-History-Conservation.com)
 * Ad of "Hatch" as a marketing motif, from the Mary Rose Trust gift shop.
 * I think a single sentence about the dog appropriately placed and referenced would add to the article rather than dilute it.
 * AshLin (talk) 15:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I dunno. Looks like your basic museum marketing ploy to me. It's very obviously a case of taking advantage of the "look at the cute doggie"-factor. I'm not going to revert anything, but I don't favor a "Hatch the dog"-sentence unless it's included in info on other animal remains.
 * Peter Isotalo 17:41, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Interesting take on "animal remains" - "Hatch" + "casks containing meat bones, both cattle and pig" (Life on Board the Mary Rose) + "skeletons of a rat and a frog" (10 things you might not know about the Mary Rose).
 * AshLin (talk) 18:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry to resurrect a four year old thread, but I followed the above link and "thing 8" is maker's marks. What caught my eye was the name of John and Robert Owen who cast a bronze gun.  I thought that the name rang a bell (pun!), and checked the list of founders at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry to see that in 1538 John Owen was recorded as the founder, possibly continuing as late as 1553.  Given that bells are bronze and that Mary's dates are 1511-1545 is it possible that these were the same person?  I have yet to find any details on the Owen brothers or any facts to substantiate this link, can other editors help? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:54, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Suggested wording
Suggested wording for insertion into section "Finds" as a new last paragraph:


 * "Animal remains have been found in the wreck of the Mary Rose. These include the skeletons of a rat, a frog and a dog. The dog, a mongrel between eighteen months and two years in age, was found near the hatch to the ship's carpenter's cabin and is thought to have been brought aboard as a ratter. Nine barrels have been found to contain bones of cattle, indicating that they contained pieces of beef butchered and stored as ship's rations. In addition the bones of pigs and fish, stored in baskets, have also been found."

If the wording is agreed to, i'll add the refs later. Please feel free to improve. AshLin (talk) 14:49, 9 February 2013 (UTC)