Talk:Maryam (surah)

POV: honorific title 'Sister of Aaron'
The article says Mary has the honorific title 'Sister of Aaron'. I say this is not a neutral statement. Mary is said to be the sister of Aron and the daughter of Imran, i.e. Aron's father. To me this means that Muhammad falsly mistook Jesus to be the daughter of Aron's sister Mary. To say that it is a honorific title is just a way to correct the mistake of Muhammad. Se http://quran.com/66 verse 12 213.112.160.84 (talk) 02:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

The article is in relation to a Surah (Chapter) of the Quran. Arguing regarding the POV could be done on a page dedicated to Mary herself, but here, of course the POV taken by the Quran is the only relevant POV for any reader of the article. HQEditor (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Miracle of 19 in Quranic Initialed Suras: Sura 19
Peace be upon you all,

God Willing I propose to include the following under a new section, if there are no reservations I shall God Willing upload it in another 36 hours time.

(Start of the section)

Miracle of 19 in Quranic Initialed Suras: Sura 19

Of the 29 Quran Suras (of the 114) that have verse 1 as Quranic initials (Muqattat), كهيعص(Kãf Hã Yã 'Ayn Sãd) (K, H, Y, A, S)  in Sura 19 is the maximum number of Quran initials consisting of five letters; this sura deals with such crucial matters as the miraculous birth of John (Yahya) and the virgin birth of Jesus, and strongly condemns the gross blasphemy that considers Jesus to be a son of God. The letter “K” in Sura 19 occurs 137 times, “H” occurs 175 times, “Y” occurs 343 times, “ `A” occurs 117 times, and “S” (Saad) occurs 26 times. Thus, the total occurrence of the five letters is 137+175+343+117+26 = 798 = 19x42.

The five initials provide a powerful physical evidence to support these issues; the 19 based Quranic structure is also supported by various other physical phenomenon never found in any human authored book. Quran is characterized by an extraordinary 19 based Mathematical structure and patterns.

(End of the section)

In order to support the above fact please see the explanations below:

(1)	The Miracle of 19: unveiled by Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. in the Quran revealed by God to last Prophet Muhammad is not an original research. This is proven for example by Appendix 1 of the Authorized English Version translated from the Original by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D. copyright © Islamic Productions and http://www.19miracle.org/math-miracle-of-quran/.

(2)	The above is based on reliable & verifiable source.

Explanation: (a) It is based on the widely accepted Quran text by Tanzil.net

(b) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashad_Khalifa states Khalifa's first publicized report in the Arab world appeared in the Egyptian magazine Akher Sa'a, in January, 1973. Updates of his research were subsequently published by the same magazine later that year and again in 1975: • ^ Akher Sa'a magazine, Egypt, January 24, 1973. • ^ Akher Sa'a magazine, Egypt, November 28, 1973. • ^ Akher Sa'a magazine, Egypt, December 31, 1975.

(c ) Book written by Cesar Adib Majul, Ph.D., Former Dean, Institute of Islamic Studies, University of the Philippines regarding the 19 based Mathematical Structure of Quran:http://books.google.com/books/about/The_names_of_Allah_in_relation_to_the_ma.html?id=pntCAAAACAAJ and https://catalog.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?BBID=973897&DB=local and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Adib_Majul

(d) The proof is easily verifiable Sura 19.

(3)	The fact is based on data accepted by main stream & majority of Shia and Sunni Muslims worldwide.

Explanation: (a) These are based on independent, verifiable, reliable, undisputed Quran data, reference texts commonly accepted by those in control of web sites and Quran printings etc. of Sunnis and Shias too, and widely used by “mainstream” Muslims worldwide - The King Fahd Press based Arabic Quran by www.tanzil.net is also used by main stream Shia sect http://quran.al-islam.org/ - we see following statement made for the Quranic initials in Sura 2 verse 1.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:1] Many interpretations have been forwarded and manipulated by some commentators, but they are all based upon conjecture, devoid of any definite authority. According to the holy Imams these letters are a means of reaching the higher realms of true knowledge, available in the verses of the Quran, but the domain of sublime confidences are reserved only for the chosen representatives of Allah.

(b) The Structure of 19 in Quran is one of the modules (Module VI page 13 -14) taught at The University of Calicut, Kerala, India http://www.universityofcalicut.info/syl/Islamic.pdf

(c) Ahmed Deedat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_deedat proclaimed Rashad Khalifa Ph.D. as the [servant of Islam] for his proving the structure based on 19 in Quran.

(4)	The neutral point of view,

The Quran as we all (muslims, submitters to God) know is the unifying factor for moderate ... Islam (Submission to God); therefore to minimize the extremists and sectarian viewpoints (which would be danger to world peace), we trust Wikipedia would not wish to restrict freedom of information etc., of modern, logical & scientific information to the Muslims – for example (per (3) (b) above), 19 based structure in Quran is being taught, obviously to “Mainstream” Muslim and even non-Muslims within Islamic History. Thus with due respect I submit that the modern facts under discussion are not a matter of any issues or view points or ideas. India is the largest democracy in the World, a Secular Country, and its Kerala State give due Constitutional recognition to various religions to the extent that this relation between 19 and Quran is taught at the University of Calicut, Kerala, mentioned above.

Peace (DukhanSmoke (talk) 17:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC))

Miracle of 19 in Intelocking Quranic Initialed Suras involving Sura 19
Peace be upon you all,

God Willing I propose to include the following under a new section, if there are no reservations I shall God Willing upload it in another 36 hours time.

(Start of the section)

Miracle of 19 in Quranic Initialed Suras: Interlocking Suras 19, 20, 26, 27 & 28

Of the 29 Quran Suras (of the 114) that have verse 1 as Quranic initials (Muqattat), Sura 19, Sura 20, Sura 26, Sura 27 and Sura 28 which are prefixed with H. (ه), T.H. (Ta Ha)(طه ), T.S. (Ta Seen)(طس ), & T.S.M. (Ta Seen Mim)(طسم ) have an intricate interlocking relationship that links these overlapping Quranic Initials to produce a total that is a multiple of 19. The initial “H.” is found in Suras 19 and 20. The initials “T.H.” prefix Sura 20. The initials “T.S.” are found in Sura 27, while the initials “T.S.M.” prefix its surrounding Suras 26 & 28.

It can be noted that the longer, more complex, interlocking and overlapping initials are found in the suras where uncommonly powerful miracles are narrated. For example, the virgin birth of Jesus is given in Sura 19, which is prefixed with the longest set of initials, K.H.Y.`A.S.

The interlocking initials “H.,” “T.H.,” “T.S.,” and “T.S.M.” prefix suras describing the miracles of Moses, Jesus, and the uncommon occurrences surrounding Solomon and his jinns. God thus provides stronger evidence to support stronger miracles. The frequencies of occurrence of these initials are presented in Table below.

''Table: Occurence of the Quranic Initials "H.," "T.H.," "T.S. ", and "T.S.M." in Their Suras''

(End of the section)

(DukhanSmoke (talk) 15:50, 22 January 2012 (UTC))

"Chapter named after Mary" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Chapter named after Mary. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed,Rosguill talk 18:16, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Subject of Persian miniature
Regarding the subject of the Persian miniature image, which may be of interest to, the talk page did not definitively determine who the subjects were. No consensus was reached, nor was any material source provided, and the indicators to it being Mary and Jesus were purely speculative. The only suggestions of the subjects being Mary and Jesus are: (1) the source of the image, the 2006 eslam.de webpage, which pulls the fact out of thin air, and (2) the word of of the translation of the inscription tentatively being  'Isa and Maryam'. I may not be a native Farsi speaker, but I don't think actually matches the text of the inscription. Regardless, such a translation would constitute original research and not be a definitive nor reliable source. We also don't know where the image came from, so we are not even sure that it is authentic. I strongly suggest that, unless a reliable source is promptly provided, the image be removed and avoided. Jamgoodman (talk) 11:21, 11 February 2021 (UTC)


 * After a fruitless search on the internet (and in other sources) to find the source of the image, I agree with you that for the time being we should probably not use this image on Wikipedia. Although there are other images of Maryam and Isa which show Isa surrounded with flames it is perhaps best not to use this image until its source has been determined. If I find any additional information relevant to this discussion I will post it on the image's talk page. AstroLynx (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Found the source of the image, see the relevant talk page. AstroLynx (talk) 22:31, 11 February 2021 (UTC)