Talk:Master (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Untitled
Remember to sign your comments. Common courtesy. Meraculas 01:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Appearance
Shouldn't the Last Apperance be The Wish, not Prophecy Girl? For that matter it could be Lessons as well, depending how we count the First's appearance. [Thucydides]

didn't the master sire angel
I'm not sure but I think the blood line is wrong, I think it was the master that sired angel.

No, the master sired Darla who sired Angelus. It's mentioned early in the first season in some episodes and is actually seen in the episode "Amends"
 * You mean Becoming, Part One. -- Noneofyourbusiness 19:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Sired
According to the shooting script for Welcome to the Hellmouth the Master's age is said to be over 600. The Order of Aurelius was founded by the Master in the 12th century. So that would mean that the Master would have been sired sometime during the 1100's. Meaning he would be close to 900 when Buffy staked him. Agree or disagree? Also, should this not be mentioned in the article. Meraculas 01:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Meraculas. What's the source for the info that the Master was sired in the 1100's?  Is there some comment about his siring and his founding of the Order occuring in the same century? Come to think of it, where do we learn that the Master founded the Order? Wow, I actually know nothing.--Nalvage 17:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It is okay. I got my information from this very site, on the Order of Aurelius page. Also I am just speculating that he was sired in the 1100's. He could have been sired long before that and only founded the Order of Aurelius in the 12th century. Also, you do know something. You knew enough not believe as was written with out proof. Meraculas 00:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I just went through a bunch of Buffy/Angel scripts and there's nothing specific about the Master founding the Order of Aurelius. There's a mention of one of Aurelius' prophecies about the Order dating from the twelfth century, and then later Darla says that the Master, "commands our Order". I'm guessing whovever added the info on the Aurelius page assumed that "commands" meant "founded". Which to me seems like speculation, unless there's info I'm missing. But if he didn't found the Order... then he could have been sired long after the 1100s.--Nalvage 01:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Think I'm gonna nip over there and change that info, unless anyone objects. --Nalvage 11:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Bloodline
According to the chart on this page, Angel is the one who sired Sarah Holtz, but is it ever actually made explicitly clear who turned her, Angel or Darla? --Jayunderscorezero (talk) 20:29, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well not in that ep. Darla has stated that Angelus is the only vampire she ever sired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.150.36.77 (talk) 06:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Name?
I heard somewhere that The Master was once named Heinrich Joseph Nest.-Kalaong (talk) 17:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, that's already mentioned in the article. --Nalvage (talk) 17:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Buffy Season 8
[Spoilers] Is that the master at the end of the latest issue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.28.149.134 (talk) 08:38, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Other Masters?
Were there any other known masters besides Lothos, Heinrich Joseph Nest and Kakistos? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gilhamit (talk • contribs) 21:21, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Searching on google books.....
is tricky when one's name is a damn common noun. :/ Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Article rewrite
Just a note to say I'm rewriting this article in a sandbox here. --Moni3 (talk) 17:44, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Religiosity section and other notes
I took out (but saved on my Notepad) the part of paragraph one that details the plot of Never Kill a Boy as it has nothing to do with the religiosity of the Master and the other characters you're talking about. It seemed a distraction from the point of the section. I also expanded on the religious overtones of the Master's prophesies.--TEHodson 09:26, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I left this sentence in, but its meaning is a mystery to me. It seems to contradict itself: "The unChristian symbolism was clear to Whedon and intentional on his part, as he was cautious about including such subversive imagery in "The Harvest". Does this mean he included it in Never Kill a Boy because it came later in the series and he'd been averse to using it in the premiere episode because he was afraid of putting people off? What does "unChristian" mean? Does it mean Christian-like (but upside down)? Sorry, but the wording is confusing to me.--TEHodson 09:37, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I put this in: "Xander is able to revive Buffy through CPR, thus the prophecy of her death at his hands is fulfilled, but its intention thwarted. She becomes stronger as a result of their encounter." I just read in Fighting the Forces this bit about her becoming stronger (of course it's self-evident, but if you need me to get the exact page reference, I'll do so.--TEHodson 10:00, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Buffy "neglects" to fulfill prophecies? That sounds as though she's falling down on the job. Which prophecies does she not fulfill, and how does that happen? Am leaving it for now, but this is unclear.--TEHodson 10:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only the Master's skeleton appears in When She Was Bad, so re-wrote that bit. This concludes the first pass at copy-editing. If you'll give me your notes here, Moni, I'll deal with the above-listed questions. I hope I haven't used any contractions this time!--TEHodson 10:54, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I took a liberty with the explanation of her post-trauma feelings and realize that this may need to be modified, but let's talk about it here, as "anxiety about her mortality" doesn't even come close to what she's going through in "When She Was Bad." Thanks.--TEHodson 12:37, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Moni. Can you take a second to address the above questions? Thanks.--TEHodson 23:06, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I kind of liked pointing out the soda-fountain machine he'd created--the blood is poured into individual glasses from taps, just like at a 50s diner. It's also really, really perverse, which I think is a good thing to emphasize. It would be funny if it weren't so twisted. Also, I thought I'd changed the sentence to "wearing a long white dress" which is what I'm about to do. It was, as usual, the middle of the night when I was working, but I had a chance to do the work, so did it.--TEHodson 23:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the copy edit. I'm in one of my unfocus phases that come in between the really intense focus phases. I'll have to come back in a bit--hopefully a week or so--and check on the stuff you mention here. Mainly because I can't remember what it was I was trying to say. Then my wife came home and all my concentration went to shit. Now I'm hungry and I want to go do something.
 * Yes, "unChristian" means opposite of Christian, but not anti-Christian in the way that the Anti-Christ is a proper noun and an entity recognized in Christian texts. I realize I had to kind of make up a word there, but I didn't know what else to put at the time.
 * "followers as though they're at a soda fountain". Passive aggressive bolding, for the win. At any rate, the soda fountain imagery confused me.

Seriously unfocused. Or something. --Moni3 (talk) 23:29, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Happy Solstice. Relax and enjoy your holiday. I have finished making/buying prezzies, which are under the tree, the cider is mulling, the cookies are about to rolled and cut, and I had a burst of writer-ly energy so decided to spend it here. I do it late because no one else is on and I don't have to worry about edit conflicts, but I do also lose focus myself (and I was sure Annointed and accolyte--extra consonants, it turns out; why doesn't this thing have an on-board spell check?). Thanks for fixing my errors--I did make one contraction, after all! Have a great weekend of fun and holiday cheer with your wife and friends. We can finish this later.--TEHodson 23:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This desperately needs rewriting.
This entire article is overblown and pretentious with a very pompous, verbose, and pseudo intellectual tone throughout. Take this as an example (not even the worst): "a character who was created to subvert media tropes about frail women falling victim to evil characters." Like I said, it desperately needs rewriting - possibly from scratch. 174.91.0.112 (talk) 22:08, 18 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree, I noticed how off tone it feels for a wikipedia article immediately.
 * This is the kind of thing you expect from a fan wiki yet the actual fan wiki is actually better written in this case. 46.65.13.3 (talk) 19:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)