Talk:Masters Tournament/Archive 1

Major Masters Moments
I have written an article, located at Suite101.com entitled Major Moments at the Masters. I believe it is informative for readers who aren't familiar with or that are new to the Masters. It will generate discussion among Masters afficianados. There's a discussion forum for anyone who wants to comment. Alan1066 00:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Black people
In the Tiger Woods interview he was talking about Black players before him. He mentioned a player who couldn't play because they kept changing the rules. I didn't catch the name of the player. What rules was he talking about? --Gbleem 00:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That likely would be Charlie Sifford, who won a couple of tournaments which ordinarily would allow him to enter, but the Masters Committee didn't let him in. I don't know if Bobby Jones (who was very sick at the time) or Clifford Roberts, or someone else, was responsible. Lee Elder finally got in for the 1975 tournament. John DiFool2 00:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Flags for England/Wales/UK
England and Wales are not sovereign nations; the UK is. Shouldn't the UK flag be used instead? Do we see US states or just the US flag?72.152.94.69 09:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

In golf, as in international soccer, each of the UK's four constituent countries are represented seperately. Using your US example, Chi Chi Rodriguez represented Puerto Rico, and the Puerto Rican flag appears next to his name in tournaments he won, despite the fact that Puerto Rico is not a sovereign nation but is part of the United States. This practice is well established.


 * puerto rico is not part of the united states —Preceding unsigned comment added by AMERICAN MIGHT (talk • contribs) 00:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Um... yes actually, it is. It is a (semi-autonomous) U.S. territory.  I believe the territories (including Puerto Rico) will be getting their own quarters following the 50 states...  Carl Lindberg (talk) 04:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Increase in televesion advertisements???
While it was clear that there was not as many television commercials on Saturday, it looked like to me that there were a great number of TV advertisements on Sunday. I think that the article should note this somehow. What do others think of the "advertising creep?" Nodekeeper (talk) 22:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Commercial breaks on Sunday were 60 seconds maximum. I don't know about Saturday. Don't confuse lack of TV commercials in prior years with lack of advertising. We were reminded constantly who the compnay was sponsoring the commercial free broadcasts. ShelbyBell (talk) 00:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Controversy?
I find it surprising that a separate section hasn't been created—or rather re-created, since it appears to have been removed—to capture all the "controversial" information in one place, rather than it being scattered throughout the article. In my opinion, no matter how one feels about the issue—and I love the tournament, by the way—I think the controversy surrounding Augusta's exclusionary practices towards Blacks and women, which continues to this day, warrants its own section. None of this is a secret. Wally From Columbia (NJ) (talk) 17:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That has little to do with the tournament per se. It belongs on the Augusta National article, which it is, but not really here.  Unless there is some angle related to tournament invitations, qualifying criteria, or something like that.  Charlie Sifford never got to play in the tournament, I believe because he never met their criteria at the time, though he would have qualified under criteria introduced later.  Lee Elder played in 1975 though, with no issues.  From this article, The PGA of America (Caucasian-only clause until 1961; there was no PGA Tour then) and other clubs at the time may have been worse. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

A couple of sentences under "Controversy" aren't controversy at all; either that or they aren't explained very well... EdGl 03:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There isn't a controversy section any more. Athenaeum 04:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Racial Discrimination
I have just read this article and must say that I am disappointed in the failure to mention anything regarding the 40 years or so where black players were not allowed to play or be members of the Augusta club (but they could carry the bags).

Lee Trevino famously made the point when he would change in the car lot!

It wasn't until 1990 - only a few decades - after the civil right movement ended that the good white members of this bastion of 'southern values' allowed Ron Townsend, CEO of Gannet Television Group, to join.

All in all- the Masters has for more than two thirds of its history been a whites-only affair. It has been only since the mid 80s when three-day telecasts began did this 'major' begin to become the event we know today.

Media pressure - what a wonderful thing it is. This article should mention that this tournament's entrance history largely rested on the color of one's skin and not merit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.166.68.221 (talk) 19:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That should be included on the Augusta National page, but is it necessarily appropriate for the Masters Tournament page? I honestly don't know how this works at Augusta, but do you have to be a member of the club to play in the tournament, or are they two (somewhat) distinct components? It's just that you mention the Gannet CEO being able to join the club in 1990, nothing about when blacks (or any other racial groups) weren't able to enter the tournament. It probably deserves a mention either way. Dalton Imperial (talk) 23:35, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The first non-white golfer was as far back as 1962 at the latest, when a Thai golfer took part. Alex Middleton (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that it should be said that the first black person qualified in (whatever year). Race should not be an issue and who cares what color he was? He qualified and that's what matters. I don't think we should make a big deal about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.122.97.22 (talk) 03:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It is an invitational tournament, so no-one qualifies strictly speaking, and the first non-white golfer to play was not black. Apart from that, I broadly agree. Alex Middleton (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

US Dominance
In both the US Open and the Masters there is an early period of US Dominance. This is less so in the Open. Is there an explanation for this beyond the relative merits of the US Players? Did less non US players take up their rights to participate? Were the qualifying rules pro US biased? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.231.233 (talk) 13:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The easy explanation is the difficulty of cross-Atlantic travel -- it was time-consuming and costly, so you would have a preponderance of local golfers at any of the tournaments then. It really wasn't until after World War II that plane travel became more possible.  I don't think most U.S. golfers consistently went to the British Open until Arnold Palmer started doing so (though I've seen others credited with enhancing its prestige in U.S. eyes).  For a long time, the PGA Championship was held about the same time, making playing in both impossible (thus Ben Hogan didn't have a chance to try for the Grand Slam in 1953).  The Masters has always technically been an invitational tournament, and I'm not sure what criteria were used in the early years.  The U.S. Open probably required contestants be from USGA-member clubs for a while (early on, many British golfers became club pros in the U.S. and competed).  Given that the the European Tour didn't exist until 1972, it was probably harder to rank golfers from there under any type of qualifying formula.  Carl Lindberg (talk) 14:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

FROM THE MAIN ARTICLE: Jack Nicklaus emerged in the early 1960s, and served as a rival to the popular Palmer. Nicklaus won his first Green Jacket in 1963, defeating Tony Lema by one stroke.[26] Two years later, he shot a then-course record of 271 (17 under par) for his second Masters win, leading Bobby Jones to say that Nicklaus played "a game with which I am not familiar."[27] The next year, Nicklaus won his third green jacket in a grueling 18-hole playoff against Tommy Jacobs and Gay Brewer.[8] This made Nicklaus the first player to win consecutive Masters. He won again in 1972, again by three strokes.[28]

"Again by three strokes" is not supported in the original article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.173.116 (talk) 13:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Format
I learned very little about the tournament format from reading the article's section on "format". 74.192.207.114 (talk) 01:17, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The 2010 Masters was won by Phil Mickelson NOT David TomsQuigley413 (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Billy Payne's comments
There is certainly a need for this to included; never before has a player's off-the-course activities been addressed at the Masters, by the chairman of Augusta National. Very newsworthy. Cheer. Duke53 | Talk 02:53, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, this article is about The Masters tournament, not about what a golfer did OUTSIDE of it. If anything, it COULD be included in the Augusta Golf Club article, but certainly not in this one.  It was also INCORRECTLY placed in the broadcasting section since that section was only intended to cover the broadcasting of the tournament, and not of any other broadcasting that originated FROM the tournament.  98.100.80.6 (talk) 19:10, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * This incident happened at the tournament, during an annual tournament tradition. I will start a new section for it, and put it back in. Very notable event indeed. Cheers. Duke53  | Talk 19:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Flag of 1980 Seve's masters
The flag that appears by Seve's name in the winners list, is the flag of the general Franco dictatorship. Franco death in 1975 and in 1980 when Seve became the first European masters winner that flag was illegal and unconstitutional, as it is nowadays. So, that flag should be changed for the legal and contitutional spanish flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.201.106.155 (talk) 18:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)


 * No it isn't. It is the correct flag the was in use by Spain post-Franco between 1977 and 1981. wjemather bigissue 18:25, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Roberto DeVicenzo's stupid quote
Google News Archive is a great resource for checking data and I've looked for DeVicenzo's quote 'What a stupid I am' in the press articles written at the time in 1968.

It isn't there.

http://www.google.com/search?q=roberto+devicenzo+bob+goalby+stupid&tbs=nws:1,ar:1&source=newspapers

Now somebody please the read DeVicenzo's quotes at the time and then read how literate compared to 'What a stupid I am'. The later is sounds like something coming out of the mouth of someone who doesn't speak English very well when in fact DeVicenzo. I deleted the quote out. It's not referenced properly and of doubtful origin.

On a side note, the famous Lee Trevino quote about a 1-iron might be something else entirely too. See the Talk page for the 1975 U.S. Open for my research on that.William 18:00, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


 * This article from a year later has the quote as "I am a stupid". This article, right from the time, has the full quote as "What a stupid I am to sign score card wrong in this wonderful tournament.  I congratulate Bob Goalby.  He give me so much pressure I lose my brains--I forget everything." Carl Lindberg (talk) 20:46, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Gary Player
Looking through the list of past winners of this haloed tournament, I was slightly surprised to note that the old South African flag accompanies Gary Players name on the list. I understand that the three times he won the tournament, was under that banner, but as a proud South African I think that the ultimate symbol of apartheid as the flag for South Africa, past or present is not appropriate.

Best regards

Roddy Louther

Mob S.A.: +27 72 118 0523 Email: louther.roddy@gmail.com Skype: rlouther — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.139.92.167 (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

After 36 holes, then what?
Most articles on sports tournaments include all the information needed to determine who wins. Here, the only information says:
 * After 36 holes have been played by all players, players are eliminated to reduce the field.

What happens then? Is only one more round of 18 holes played? What happens if there is a tie for first place? Ileanadu (talk) 22:11, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

The Masters begins on a Thursday, and ends on Sunday. The players play 18 holes a day for four days while there is a cut after 36 holes. If after 72 holes there is a tie, the players that share the same score for first place play a sudden death playoff. They begin by playing the 18th hole, if still tied, they move on to play the 10th hole. This play goes back and forth until someone wins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EWSmith086 (talk • contribs) 19:15, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The Britsh Open
The correct term for this tournament is The Open rather than The British Open. I'm not trying to be jingoistic (indeed, the correct term for the referenced article is The Masters Tournament, or The Masters, not The U.S. Masters. I am going to change this.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Layer8error (talk • contribs) 20:18, 7 April 2012 (UTC)


 * That term is used in North America to disambiguate it, because somehow people think we can confuse it with the U.S. Open. ViperSnake151   Talk  02:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Cut Rule
Although virtually all sources present the history of the Masters cut rule as described in the "Format" section of the article, including some internet sites associated with the Masters tournament itself, the history of the cut rule at the Masters is slightly different.

- Starting with the 1957 tournament, the Masters instituted a 36-hole cut in which low-40 and ties make the cut.

- Starting with the 1960 tournament, the cut rule was that low-40 and ties and any players within 10 shots of the lead make the cut.

Note that three golfers who shot 150 made the cut in 1960 due to being within 10 shots of the leader (low-40's extended only to the 149's). The converse is that in 1958 & 1959, the cuts were exactly nine shots behind the 36-hole leader where the low-40 scores fell. The point is that the original rule implemented in 1957 did NOT have a ten-shot criterion. This was only added starting in 1960 due to some "pressure" from the media and from some players. The esteemed sportswriter Jim Murray wrote some articles about this back in the day.

- Starting with the 1962 tournament, the cut rule was that low-44 and ties and any players within 10 shots of the lead make the cut.

- Starting with the 2013 tournament, the cut rule was that low-50 and ties and any players within 10 shots of the lead make the cut.

I have seen this correct Masters cut history presented and discussed over the years but I cannot put my finger on definitive confirmation from credible and reliable internet sources at the moment.

Whosnext23 (talk) 12:11, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

2017 Masters -- Prize Money
During the third round of the Masters (Saturday April 8th), the purse and individual prizes for the 2017 Masters was revealed by the Augusta National Golf Club.

Announced Total Purse is $ 11,000,000 | 1st Prize is $1,980,000

If the remaining 51 pros complete Sunday's final round, then the total actual -PAID- purse would be $ 10,543,720.

The pros who do not make the 36-hole cut receive $ 10,000 each (unofficial money, not included in a player's season total)

Source of prize money information --

http://www.augusta.com/masters/story/metro/2017-04-08/2017-masters-tournament-purse-prize-money-breakdown

Thanx-A-Lot, Fgf2007 (talk) 06:18, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

1974 Masters Champion
Ken Jacobs did NOT win the 1974 Masters. It was Gary Player. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.200.195.25 (talk) 00:29, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Winners' table ("To par" column)
In the winner's table, the "To Par" column orders the winners by the first digit of the number of strokes below par, i.e., -10, -11, -12, ..., -17, -18, -2, -3, ..., -8, and -9. Is there an editor who knows how to change it, so the sort isn't based on the first digit? I believe a similar change was made for Category sorting, e.g., "2nd [event name]" now sorts before "15th [event name]". Eagle4000 (talk) 05:04, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Bobby Jones scholars game?
Other traditions[edit] The day after the tournament closes, The Bobby Jones Scholars from The University of St Andrews in Scotland play a four-ball round on the course – the last people to do so before the greenkeepers start the process of repairing and restoring the course to pre-tournament standard.[citation needed]

-is there any evidence of this being true? No citation and Google reveals nothing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:181:8301:E88:E431:981C:28C6:D84F (talk) 13:16, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

The first full week of April
The Masters 2019 clearly did not take place in the first full week of April. I don't know what the actual rule is, but this needs to be changed in the lede. KarlFrei (talk) 12:54, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Well that depends if you have the first day of the week being Sunday or Monday. If it is Sunday then the first week is 31st March to 6th April, but the first full week in April is 7th April to 13th April. Given the Masters dates are 11th to 14th April it is almost right. Perhaps you can suggest alternative wording? Jopal22 (talk) 13:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know who write the lede, but the Masters typically finishes on the second Sunday of April. So, it can finish anywhere from the 8th to the 14th. Johnsmith2116 (talk) 15:46, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

First tee
What is the number next to the golfers name on the first tee? 75.127.170.146 (talk) 18:37, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

It’s their registration number for the tournament. Doesn’t really mean much. Their caddies wear it too Olso1912 (talk) 01:43, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Low Amateur Table
The Low Amateur table is now in the Broadcasting section under United States Television. However, in the Edit console, it appears correctly. Anyone know how to put it back? Afbrown89 (talk) 00:14, 10 April 2023 (UTC)