Talk:Mateship

2006 comments
This is horrible. After reading over a hundred words I still don't know precisely what mateship is.144.133.87.46 12:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

No chance! This page is terrible! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.95.109.73 (talk • contribs)
 * That's why it was nominated for ACOTW, but it didn't get selected, so hasn't improved much. --Scott Davis Talk 13:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

terrible, more specifically
What in the world is this even refering to? Complely unclear. "A good example of mateship is in Blackrock. Enright juxtoposes what it means to be a mate."
 * It's not an article, it's an essay, and it's a poor essay at that. Frankly I rather hope someone knocks it all down and starts again, because this is a horrible mess. 86.132.143.24 07:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!!! ill get to work on it as soon as i get a chance 124.149.68.109 14:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Genesis?
I thought mateship was just one of Teflon's political inventions. Hide&amp;Reason 01:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I've done some fixing of the first paragraph, but the rest of it is beyond my scope, hopefully the intro is at least somewhat understandable now Scatterbrain 24 Sep 2007 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 18:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Humphrey McQueen's comment was removed. Original research was introduced. Cygnis insignis 00:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Needs more sources, complete rewrite. Cygnis insignis 00:18, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources, citations, references (etc)
This may be helpful to the article.  Sebi  [talk] 00:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Brendan Lloyd [ contribs ] 13:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC) writes:
 * great idea! I've added to it from the page. I tried to give some notes to them. Refactor at will, this is my analysis of the third: discussion of, and internal links to, 1st and 2nd world wars. Very probably the main source for the current article. It mentions the 1958 book by Ward. No defintions or references, some pretty superficial and emotive allusions to a still undefined term.  Very anglo, condescending and blokey. Adds disclaimer to balance this - women helped in the war too.  The article, and very probably the subject, is illdefined and serves only with a fluid meaning or 'dog whistle' to an audience given to identify universal human characteristics as uniquely australian.  Our article can only explain the use of the term and any published analysis of the sentiments or intent of any currency. The second link is from Don Watson, here is the first lines
 * "FROM the experience of Australian men at war and otherwise in extremis, the creed of mateship took on a sacred quality that is not to be mocked or belittled. That is why prime ministers should not make idiotic claims for it. If you want to kill mateship, make it a cliche."
 * The following links should be included, but the content of them must be placed in context, not reiterated. The lead says almost nothing, I can fairly guess the meaning that would be arrived at by those less reflective on Australian identity [mate!].   I might go and dig out the McQueen quote that someone censored early. Cygnis insignis 15:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Let's start a list:
 * http://www.australianbeers.com/culture/mateship.htm
 * Undetermined publisher of selected quotes on war, blokes, and drinking. A lot of context to use of mate, two refs for mateship to John Howard and Gareth Evans.


 * http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/politics-is-killing-off-our-mateship/2005/09/01/1125302685068.html
 * Opinion piece by Don Watson


 * Mateship, diggers and wartime
 * Article published by the Federal Govt. in its Culture and recreation portal; current main source.


 * Australian Army - about.
 * Now a 404

Mateship vs Male bonding
As the article currently mentions mateship is synonymous with friendship it also seems to relate closely to male bonding... 59.167.201.65 (talk) 04:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if mateship and friendship are in fact synonymous. Mateship smacks of camaraderie and togetherness rather than the deeper and more individual bonds implied by friendship. There's a danger of semantics here, but a mate could well be a "friendly acquaintance" with loyalty both ways. Millbanks (talk) 19:42, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Struth
Simpson and his donkey as examples of mateship. Horseshit.

Simpsons example was honourable and decent but an example of individual personal character.

In an age where atomised individualism, self aggrandisement and even narcissism are actively encouraged by business and their political lackeys it may surprise some that individualism, however circumstantially noble, being presented as mateship is a deliberate perversion of real, authentic mateship.

Compare this with the example of diggers in a POW camp who survived by forming a group of 5 - 8 mates and compare their survival and camp conditions to other nationals. Ref.

Reference: http://blogs.abc.net.au/victoria/melbourne_afternoons/index.html

774 ABC Melbourne Richard Stubbs Thursday 24th April 04/24/2008

One of these diggers gave the reference, I don't remember which.

GAVAN DAWS Author of "Prisoners of the Japanese - POWs of World War II in the Pacific ". Published by Scribe

SERGEANT LARRY DOWNES A Company - 9  Platoon  - 39th Militia Infantry Battalion - Kokoda

Theo Pardilla 17:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Correct term is "Strewth" Andy_Howard (talk) 06:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

This page is just dumb
what a load of crap! this sounds like some made up bullshit by some academic uni dweller living in the berra! never heard of "mateship" outside of the military before, this page just sounds like it was created by some anal tool trying to make Aus sound artsy fartsy or something

whoever wrote this waste of space needs to go see a bit more Australia.... or stop living in their parents basement, eitherway —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.30.245 (talk) 15:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

In perspective
I lived in Aus for some years and I think that people here are being too critical. Mateship encompasses the concepts of loyalty and helpfulness, and, more to the point, inclusiveness, in contrast to Britain where exclusivity is valued. I deleted the bit about working class, because the concept of being working class denotes a form of exclusivity ("us against the nobs"). I was unhappy about the "predominantly Irish" phrase, since Australia is not predominantly Irish, though these are many people of Irish descent. But there are similarities to Ireland, eg, "there are no strangers here, only friends who have never met", and both countries have an ethos of openness and friendliness to a far greater extent than Britain does. Millbanks (talk) 11:57, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That is a perversion of John Carroll. Mere conjecture does not determine WP:V. Ottre 20:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's part of Australian collective cultural propaganda that Australia is friendlier than Britain. It's simply fantasy, with no empirical evidence. Salopian (talk) 23:10, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

crickey mate
This article is a hoot. Question: Does the ANZAC spirit include Kiwis? :) Wallie (talk) 20:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Class System?
I don't think calling someone mate is defined by the class system which Australia doesn't really have, it's either rich or poor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.208.242.8 (talk) 17:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

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