Talk:Mato Dukovac/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Ian Rose (talk · contribs) 11:27, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Already familiar with the article so I think this has my name on it -- should be able to get to it next week. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:27, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Toolbox checks -- no dab or EL issues.

Prose/content
 * I think flags in bios are frowned on per WP:MOSFLAG and I stopped using them a long time ago, though I'm not a Nazi about it -- I suppose in this case it looks interesting considering all his changes of allegiance (forced and unforced)...
 * Just stumbled upon this GA review - flags are always used for military allegiance and military personnel. Just want to leave that here. KevinNinja (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi to both of you. I tend to use flags in infoboxes for the allegiance of military personnel due to the requirement to swear allegiance, or where reliable sources state allegiance existed.
 * As I indicated, I don't go around removing them on sight (unless they're suddenly added to an article where they weren't already present, without a rationale) but, Kevin, it's incorrect to say they are always used. I can point you to scores of military bios and unit histories at GA/A/FA-level (and not just my own) that manage to do without them. If you check the "Avoid flag icons in infoboxes" section of MOSFLAG you'll see that they are considered acceptable for conflict infoboxes but not much else. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm gathering you've been unable to find the exact date he died in all your reliable sources?
 * Sadly, yes. The two main biographical sources just say September.


 * The last para is a bit confusing and repetitive because we seem to state things as fact, then throw in some doubt and uncertainty, then baldly restate things as fact again. First we say 44 confirmed kills -- fine. Then we say controversy over the exact number -- okay. Then we say 44 confirmed kills again -- repetitive but also confusing (looking at the sourcing it appears Savic et al are going by the ZNDH figure you mention but perhaps this can be spelt out). Then at the end we seem to be breaking down the 44-kill total but we should be clear about this, especially since an unconfirmed kill is thrown in that's never been mentioned in connection with the 44 confirmed. I think that if your main source (Savic et al) clearly says he was the top-scoring Croatian ace, then just go with that in the first sentence, then talk about doubt/controversy as you have it already, then you clearly associate the breakdown at the end with the ZNDH total. That would give you the following final para, which I think reads more clearly (assuming of course the way sources put things supports the re-wording):

"Dukovac was the top-scoring Croatian pilot of World War II.[19] During his life, there was much controversy surrounding the exact number of aircraft that he had downed. Croatian wartime documents discovered in the Military History Institute in Belgrade after his death show that the ZNDH credited him with 44 confirmed kills,[2] although at least one other source indicates a tally of 40 confirmed kills with five unconfirmed.[21] The ZNDH total of 44 included 18 LaGG-3s, 12 Ilyushin Il-2s, three P-39s, two DB-3s, two Yak-1s, and one each of the following aircraft: II-16, MiG-3, Spitfire, La-5, Yak-9, Pe-2, and A-20. ZNDH also noted one unconfirmed claim.[19]"

Structure -- the two subsections under Post-war period are very short; re. the first, one-para subsections are generally discouraged I think; re. the second, really the first para is emigration and later life, the second is more legacy-like. I won't hold up listing as GA on this account by any means but you might consider combining the whole lot into one Later life and legacy section.

References -- formatting/reliability generally looks okay but:
 * Re. Dizdar et al and Savic et al, I don't think you need countries for Zagreb and London.
 * Do we have a location for Neulen?
 * Re. Joseph, I don't just looking at it if Crowood is a publisher or location -- again, both would be best.
 * I do location with town and state/country for consistency
 * Heh, "London, England" always sounds so American to me but I get the point re. consistency. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Images -- only query is re. the infobox image: how do we know the author died more than 70 years ago?
 * I think I'm going to have to NFR this file, will get to it today. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:12, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
 * That may be safer, and quite acceptable. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:46, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for the review, Ian! Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:47, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Tks for that, passing as GA. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:49, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 03:28, 30 January 2016 (UTC)