Talk:Matt Cardona/Archive 1

=2009=

Why
Why did someone delete my article? I wrote an article on only Zack Ryder, as was in the request list. User:Csmith1994 23:39, 25 July 2009

Reason for this article
Given that Ryder has just had a match against the ECW champion - a match that could not be described as a squash match - I think he's passed the notability threshhold and the time has come to give him a page of his own. I've started to create one. Feel free to add. - Kae User:76.181.73.86 00:56, 30 July 2009
 * Curt Hawkins should also get one seeing as hes been a former champion and part of a major Smackdown! fued a couple years ago ZackRyderwoowoowooyouknowit (talk) 02:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Curt Hawkins hasn't done anything yet, wait until he re-debuts before giving him one, also thanks to all of those who made Ryder's article! MonkeyKid 03:05, 30 July 2009

Redirect
Page content was deleted and redirected to Talk:Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder by User:Oakster on 09:21, 30 July 2009. User:MPJ-DK cancelled this redirect and added the above headers on 20:36, 17 May 2010 but didn't notice Oakster had deleted the 2009 conversations. DB (talk) 05:38, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

=2010=

Mentioning that he was in the battle royal
Whoever keeps removing the text that says he came in 2nd place in the dark match battle royal at WM 26, look around. It's in ever single article. Why is it Mike Knox's for example but not Zack Ryder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Final Flash (talk • contribs) 00:26, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

How did this happen?
Ryder should NOT have his own page! Hawkins can stay with his separate page but Ryder needs to be re-directed to the tag article.190.59.20.78 (talk) 21:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Picture
Could you please update the Zack Ryder picture to what he looks like now? Thank you. Thank you very much for finally making a Wikipedia page about Zack Ryder :) User:ZigglerRyder 13:45, 23 May 2010
 * ZR in his haste to add this comment deleted the 'how did this happen' section. I have restored it. DB (talk) 05:38, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Editing
I am not too good at editing and referencing. I wrote a good add-on to the article, but i need someone to fix the editing becuase as you can see it is clearly off. Could someone do that for me and add refernences and move that one refernece fourty i think back to the right place thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Varghoo (talk • contribs) 00:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry Varghoo, I reverted those edits because they aren't notable to his career. In five years, Zack Ryder being hit by a giant hand won't have had any impact on any storyline in wrestling. Noting him being involved in backstage skits with Edge could have been notable had it led anywhere, but it was just a few weeks of filler that has presumably stopped now Edge is on SmackDown. Tony2Times (talk) 00:51, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

VS Santino Marella
Can someone add his match versus santino marella this monday on it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Varghoo (talk • contribs) 00:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

=2011=

Zack Ryder and Primo Alliance
What I suggest should be added in is the Zack Ryder and Primo alliance known as "DZP". I think this would be a good thing to add to someone like Zack Ryder b/c he always does best with a partner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.24.18.69 (talk) 06:18, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Once it's notable it will be added, but they're just wrestling together for the sake of having matches with no storylines or titles or issues at hand to encyclopedically write about. Tony2Times (talk) 10:46, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * How do we determine when it's notable? It's not like they had a 1-time tag-team, it clearly meant enough to them to coin an initialism for their team-up (this is something not even Kane and the Big Show have done yet) and Primo has guest-starred on his very popular WWE-advertised internet show. DB (talk) 15:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Tony's removals
Here the information I added about Ryder's participation in the 2010 and 2011 Royal Rumbles. These are big events and participation in them is notable in people's careers, especially someone like Zack who is rarely in pay-per-views. Why were they removed? You also removed the information about the episodes of his web series that an IP guy added, without noting.

Removal of information is one thing, but if you are going to do that, please at least make a note of it on the talk page. This way, it is clearer to other editors that you are deleting content. This can stimulate talk page discussion. When it's not mentioned, it's up to people who knew it was there (such as those of us who added it) to take notice and attempt to initiate discussion, as I'm doing now.

Another issue is the removal of space. Recent events (like Ryder's teaming with Miz and shots at US and WWE titles) can be spaced out rather than clumped in a giant paragraph. DB (talk) 05:26, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Apologies for not stating a reason in the box but I was in a rush and doing so seldom stops things on this article particularly. The reason I removed the spacing between those events is that Ryder has been and looks like he's going to continue to be woefully underexposed in WWE, meaning that he is given flashes of storylines and moments on TV; to make a new paragraph for every one of these would result in the article soon becoming a bullet point list. If it helps giving the paragraph some cohesion we could introduce it as "Ryder began to be used sparingly on television, appearing rarely such as..."? Also the reason I took out the information about his web series is similar; I didn't remove the information about the web series, I removed the list of wrestlers who had appeared on it as again, as the weeks go by and more people cameo there, it would just become a long list of no real value (if you wanna know who was in it, watch it) and given that it is unrelated short skits, saying exactly what was on one week would result in it being unnecessarily long. I realise Ryder isn't often on PPV so it seems like a big deal when he is on, but unless a storyline or backstage incident comes from it, it's really not. "Ryder appeared at the Royal Rumble and was eliminated" - so what? It's a sentence that doesn't lead anywhere. I guess if you really wanted you could say he was used sparingly on TV and only appeared at PPVs with large amounts of people on. Hope that explains my reasoning sufficiently. Tony2Times (talk) 09:39, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I thought it was already quite concise, we list information which is already listed on the respective Royal Rumble pages: that Zack was in said Rumble and who eliminated him. Furthermore, since Zack is used sparingly, that's all the more reason to list things he's in, even if they seem minor compared to the exposure that other wrestlers have, because they are significant for him. DB (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Troll, internet champion
Can anyone confirm whether or not this Tony guy is a troll or not, as he seems to be a big fan of deleting things for no reason. I understand that he may not be a fan of Zack Ryder, but that doesn't give him the right to delete references to him being a self-declared internet champion. This is quite ridiculous that he refuses to allow this piece of information on the page, and repeatedly deletes it, as this championship is as valid as Taz's FTW championship, for example.PineappleFlash (talk) 05:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No it's not. If I made a YouTube video on my own personal video account declaring myself the WWE Fax Machine Champion, would I be it? No. Ryder's entertaining YouTube series is self-made and has as much to do with WWE as it does NBC Sports - people they employ appear in it. WWE.com has no mention of the title on their website, no mention has been made on television, WWE has mentioned nothing about a toy belt with stickers made on it. Tony2Times (talk) 13:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not a valid title until ZR actually starts using and defending it on TV, as Tazz did with the FTW title.    ArcAngel    (talk) ) 11:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone is asserting that it's a valid WWE title, but explaining that Zack is calling himself this isn't wrong. "The Great One" isn't a title either but we call the rock this. Made-up titles can be perceived as nick names. DB (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Whether or not people are trolls is not something possible to confirm or deny. I see discussion of such speculations as pointless, because they don't assume good faith and postulate about things we can never know short of telepathy: what motivates people. I think we should only respond to the material in edits, calling people trolls is something like a personal attack and I ultimately don't think it matters what motivates people to edit, only whether or not edits are valid and our reasons that dictate what is or isn't included. DB (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Internet Championship
Zack Ryder's youtube series is now being advertised on WWE's facebook page. If they had a problem with him calling himself the WWE Internet Champion they would have asked him to stop. I will be reverting every attempt that Tony makes to vandalize the page and remove this important note. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.134.67.59 (talk) 07:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

It's also a self claim that has not been backed up by the WWE. He says a lot of things that are obviously not true, but the WWE not stopping him doesn't make them suddenly true. Provide reference or leave it be. 98.114.59.8 (talk) 08:58, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That's why I requested page protection, to prevent IP editors from adding this info. WWE's Facebook page is not considered a reliable source.  Making self proclamations is not enough to warrant inclusion into the article.     ArcAngel    (talk) ) 16:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't worry. After the latest Long Island Iced Z episode, I had a match with Ryder and pinned him for the Internet Championship. I'm gonna go and post it on WWE's Facebook page now to make it official so people can stop listing him mas Internet Champ. Tony2Times (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Then I hereby challenge you for the title! :)     ArcAngel    (talk) ) 22:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)


 * It's notable if WWE is officially advertising his series, but that in no way means they are approving of his championship statements. A similar issue has come up elsewhere: guys like Miz and JBL have called themselves grand slam champions when they were not, that the WWE aired them making these claims about themselves doesn't mean that the statements are approved as fact. DB (talk) 15:38, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

He's defending the championship now at WWE events, so of course it's legit and of course it should be mentioned. http://www.rajah.com/base/node/23445 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.239.73 (talk) 00:26, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If the Million Dollar Championship is notable then this is too. Hopefully we'll see him start defending it on TV soon. TheGary (talk) 05:04, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

They're now acknowledging it on WWE TV and WWE.com. http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwefeaturepage/untold-history-of-the-internet-title There are many articles on WWE.com addressing it, that's one of them. I'd say it's worth noting in his accomplishments at this point. It's a noteworthy unsanctioned championship like the Million Dollar Championship was.--LM2000 (talk) 03:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The Million Dollar Championship belt actually appeared on TV. Ryder's never has. Also the bogus live event defence of the Internet Title wasn't legit; if you watch the fan made video the ring announcer never mentions the title, Ryder just did it on the microphone himself. Until Ryder brings it out to the ring with him, even without defending it, on TV, this is pointless. Tony2Times (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

The article also heavily states he is the champion, although he never defends the title at all and it's never seen.78.148.100.186 (talk) 00:02, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

2014 discussion revival
Somebody not only put the Internet Championship on his C&A, but also put in on JBL's page because apparently he "defended it" on an episode of the JBL & Cole Show. What is the consensus about it then?--EdgarCabreraFariña (talk) 17:25, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
 * From what I understand the title was never included because it never appeared on television, this makes it different than other unsanctioned championships like the Million Dollar Championship. It was defended at house shows in 2011, but they aren't canon.  The JBL and Cole Show article is a mess to begin with but if we can verify through reliable secondary sources that a defense took place then it can stay there.  I'm not sure if it should remain in the C&A section on this article though.LM2000 (talk) 17:44, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
 * and - it has appeared on Raw. It has been mentioned on Raw     So what now? The iffy part is listing that he is a 3-time champion without reliable secondary sources.  starship  .paint   ~ regal  04:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I suppose that's the iffy part. Is necessary to know the chain of evens that happened so Ryder ended up being a 3-time champion, and I suppose that a page for the Internet Championship if enough info can be gathered. For what is worth, I remember that the Internet Championship had a page on the Spanish Wikipedia but it was deleted several times, the last one in March 2013. --EdgarCabreraFariña (talk) 11:01, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

1,000,000 views
Zack Ryder said that in Episode 13 that he has over 1,000,000 views. Should that be in the section about the videos? You guys can add the totals together for confirmation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.7.220.9 (talk) 01:47, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it's particularly notable in an encyclopedia. It's certainly a personal achievement for him but lots of videos get over 1,000,000 views on YouTube. Tony2Times (talk) 07:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No, not notable at all. Just useless trivia.     ArcAngel    (talk) ) 11:38, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree, it's a big number and people take not of it, therefore it is notable. I dislike calling it trivial, has Wikipedia reached consensus on how many views IS notable? Clearly some amount is as there are YouTube stars with their own articles solely for that reason. Zack is of course, notable prior to this for other reasons, yet if a certain number is reason enough to give someone an article, then it should be reason enough to mention similar achievements by Zack. DB (talk) 15:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * In the context of pro wrestling, I think it's notable. Many music videos surpass the 1 million view count, but how many pro wrestling videos achieve this? Within the pro wrestling world Ryder is clearly a YouTube star, which is why I believe this is notable. Starship.paint (talk) 02:16, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * In the context of WP:NUMBER, it's just a number.    ArcAngel    (talk) ) 14:10, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * But the Zack Ryder article is a pro wrestling article. I'm not arguing whether we should have an article on the number 1,000,000. Starship.paint (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I noted the wrong section - it's WP:BIGNUMBER that applies here, and it says that large numbers don't help establish notability.    ArcAngel    (talk) ) 19:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

It says that large numbers do not help establish notability for an object. The object is the web show. But we are not arguing whether the webshow should be mentioned or not. We are arguing whether the number should be mentioned or not. The webshow is notable if it has reliable, verifiable sources, which it does like PWTorch. Starship.paint (talk) 10:38, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Time for Zack to turn face
While he did turn face on Superstars, the comment on his youtube video was a play on words. The joke should probably be removed as while it references the face turn, it's not related to his actual face turn. --Aguyok (talk) 21:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Seems like Ryder's turned back to being a heel? He certainly played the heel against Santino on this week's Superstars... WWE is confusing us... Starship.paint (talk) 09:59, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's almost as if he never turned face, he just did something one week and people reacted too quickly rather than waiting to see how things played out. Tony2Times (talk) 12:24, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Two weeks actually. He was a face against Drew McIntyre the week before? Starship.paint (talk) 12:42, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Derrick12345678901234567890, 30 July 2011
Derrick12345678901234567890 (talk) 10:22, 30 July 2011 (UTC) im would like to put internet champion cause he made the title him self like the one millons doller championship somebody took the belt off and justsaid tag team campion and most anoying catchpahse
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 21:48, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

New name!
According to Gerweck.net, SmackDown this week reveals his new name as Dwight Schrut...92.235.168.144 (talk) 15:41, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope you're being an ironic troll. Tony2Times (talk) 12:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Watch the latest edition of SmackDown on YouTube, then. It is on there!92.235.168.144 (talk) 15:40, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You're an idiot, and this is why we don't edit articles based on rumours and hear'say: because people misunderstand things easily. Tony2Times (talk) 17:52, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey don't call me that just cos I got something a tiny bit wrong! =[ Um, I was the other IP address. I'm in another house. 86.184.86.42 (talk) 20:55, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 188.223.33.171, 20 August 2011
i would like to say he lost to ezikel jackson

188.223.33.171 (talk) 16:35, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Denied. We don't add week by week trivial matches.     ArcAngel    (talk) ) 17:14, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed. It's not really very important or notable, right? Starship.paint (talk) 06:59, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Week by week stuff isn't really needed, but you could note that he's still a jobber despite being the "assistant" to T. Long!92.235.168.144 (talk) 19:45, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * WP:TRIVIA, and thus not notable.    ArcAngel    (talk) ) 16:56, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Picture
What's wrong with the picture? I don't know much about them myself but does anyone know how to shape it normally?-- Deely 1  14:22, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No, me neither. I've asked on the PW page but I don't think anyone noticed the question. I tried putting an image size and pixel in the info box but was just guessing the code. Tony2Times (talk) 15:57, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * We're probably going to have to ask somewhere else. I'm sure there are users that specialize in picture formatting right?-- Deely 1  17:16, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I see nothing wrong about the picture. Starship.paint (talk) 06:24, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's completely stretched!?-- Deely 1  14:59, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing this. My browser is Google Chrome. http://i56.tinypic.com/2mi0nki.jpg Starship.paint (talk) 10:01, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I have Google Chrome too but the image I'm getting is really stretched and awkward.-- Deely 1  11:44, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I also use Chrome but it's skewed, I believe it's stretched to be too tall. I don't have the default Wiki skin, I don't know if that's anything to do with it. Tony2Times (talk) 12:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

WWE debut
His WWE debut was on April 21, 2005 in New York City as a jobber when he faced Matt Morgan. I don't know if that should be added to the article. Here is a video of the match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vICVecN6Ov0

I don't think videos are a reliable source so here is another link but it doesn't say his name http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/results/smackdown/050421.html

 GoPurple  'n  Gold24   18:05, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Willyc424, 26 September 2011
Matthew Joseph Cardona Jr. (born May 14, 1985) better known by his ring name Zack Ryder, is an American professional wrestler. He is currently signed to WWE and works on the Raw brand as a wrestler and the SmackDown brand as an Assistant to the General Manager. Cardona wrestled mostly with his tag team partner Brian Myers on the independent circuit and initially in WWE, under the name Curt Hawkins, where they won the WWE Tag Team Championship before the team split and Cardona became a singles wrestler.

Willyc424 (talk) 05:24, 26 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks Willy for finding that mistake. Starship.paint (talk) 12:07, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Merge "Other media" into Ryder's "Professional wrestling career: The Ryder Revolution"?
Hey guys what do you guys think about merging the two sections? Firstly Ryder's social media exploits have become integral to his character and storylines that not mentioning them in Ryder's wrestling career would not make much sense, really. Also the social media exploits feature Cardona in-character as Ryder, not Cardona being himself and out-of-character. Therefore all the stuff deserves to go under Ryder's wrestling career. You think? Starship.paint (talk) 13:23, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I decided that the merge wasn't needed, but I shifted some content around in the sections. If anyone disagrees feel free to voice your opinion here. Starship.paint (talk) 06:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

United States Champion 2011-Present
On December 18 2011 at the Annual WWE TLC paper-view Zack Ryder beat Dolph Ziggler to win the United States Championship.Woo Woo you know it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.72.75.214 (talk) 01:49, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Ryder's real name
Ryder has said on twitter that this article has his name wrong. It was corrected, but then changed back by Tony2Times (who appears to think he is more of an expert about Ryder than Ryder himself). Could someone please fix this? Also, is there a way Tony could be blocked from this page, as he seems to only vandalize it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tribal Prophet (talk • contribs) 17:22, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've fixed it. Don't wildly throw around accusations of vandalism against established users please. Tony does not vandalise this article - he's one of the very, very few editors keeping the vandalism out and the article in half-decent shape. If you have an issue with his edits, try discussing them with him instead of making bad faith assumptions.  Nici  Vampire  Heart  18:19, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thank you for making the changes. If Tony normally reverts vandalism, then I apologize. From reading this talk page however, there seems to be a fairly deserved reputation that personal beliefs have come up quite a bit in decision making for this entry by a select few people involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.223.162 (talk) 21:43, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.Perhaps. I de-watched this article, gosh but at least 2 years ago if not more. There's only so many fanbois I can deal with without wanting to go on a rampage, so I disengaged pretty quickly, and that was before his YouTube show took off. I personally feel that people like Tony who've stuck around over the years to do a pretty thankless job at this article should be commended, not castigated. Nici  Vampire  Heart  09:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry for reverting that well-spotted misinformation, it's been there so long I didn't even think to check the source as I was at work and normally such edits are vandalism. In terms of personal beliefs effecting the page, do you mean not changing Zack Ryder's to Dwight Shrute or not listing the Internet Championship in his C&As when, 60 odd weeks in, it still has never appeared on WWE TV. A lot of edits lack scope, but that doesn't excuse me reverting honest edits like the one you made. Tony2Times (talk) 23:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want to be technical about it, the title has been on raw at least once. just type in Internet Championship on Raw on youtube and its like the 4th or 5th video down. im not saying that it should be added or something im just saying that it technically been shown on wwe tv — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.132.93 (talk) 07:49, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * True, video is here. Starship.paint (talk) 13:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * its been 3 months... surprised that he didnt comment back yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.125.128.33 (talk) 23:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

2013 Photo
Would like to ask it reviewed and re-captioned. It seems specifically captioned in the intention to troll fans. - Former Wikipedian 17 November 2014‎
 * Replaced with better photo. Feel free to re-caption the new photo. starship  .paint   ~ regal  05:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

2015 photo
Came across http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/jardoor11/Zack%20Ryder/Zack%20Ryder%202_zpswdexe1er.jpg~original what are the chances we can feature it? Is more recent showing his immense gains. Ranze (talk) 02:17, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Zack Ryder. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/zack-ryder-3248.html?year=0&res=100

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:55, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Internet Championship
Yeah, yeah. So it's not even classed as a real title. It's more or less just a prop, but technically, it's still an unsanctioned "belt" which he carried, albeit just as part of his gimmick, or character.PeterMan844 (talk) 15:47, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

1000
hi zack ryder i love you zack ryder you be my boyfriend — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.218.151.52 (talk) 23:14, 18 September 2016 (UTC)