Talk:Matt Carthy

MEP
I have removed the claim that Matt Carthy is no longer an MEP. While it's certainly plausible (and possibly mandatory?) that he's going to resign as an MEP he doesn't appear to have currently done so, or if he has the process hasn't been completed. The EU still have him listed as a 'Member', in constrast Martina Anderson who lost her seat due to Brexit is not listed as a 'Member' but her end date of '31-01-2020' is repeatedly made clear. FDW777 (talk) 18:10, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * No, he's not an MEP since his election as a TD. It is provided in the EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT ELECTIONS (AMENDMENT) ACT 2004 - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/2/enacted/en/print.html - see section (c):
 * “(5) If while a person is a member of the European Parliament the person—
 * (a) becomes subject to any of the disqualifications referred to in paragraph (a) of subsection (2),
 * (b) becomes the holder of an office or the occupier of a position, as the case may be, referred to in paragraph (b), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (k), (l), (m), (n) or (o) of subsection (2) or subsection (4), or
 * (c) is elected as a member of the Dáil or is elected or nominated as a member of the Seanad,
 * the person shall thereupon cease to be a member of the Parliament.”.
 * Just because some EP website is not updated doesn't mean anything, the statue law of Ireland is clear. Spleodrach (talk) 19:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Hence my use of "possibly mandatory". However you also have to take into account the EU procedures involved in resigning a seat, and I believe he's currently an MEP until the EU say otherwise. Their parliament, their rules surely? FDW777 (talk) 20:09, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * "Their parliament", surely you mean "Our parliament", since we are part of it and the EU. Anyway, he's not an MEP as Irish Statue Law quite clearly states. I assume national law applies here, because each member state has different rules about qualification/dual mandate etc. He probably still has to formally resign from the EP but legally he is a TD and has signed the members register in Dail Eireann, so he cannot be legally an MEP at the same time. Spleodrach (talk) 20:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


 * It depends what's meant by "shall thereupon cease" though. It could, as you suggest, mean the person immediately ceases to be an MEP. It could equally, as I suggest, mean the person is required to resign as an MEP as part of the formal process. 20:28, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


 * "and by law is required to name a substitute for his seat in the European Parliament" means my suggestion is quite reasonable. FDW777 (talk) 20:30, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * "Thereupon" means immediately, (as any dictionary will tell you). So its quite clear, that the person ceases to be an MEP immediately on election as a TD. I don't suggest it, I am actually stating that this is the clear and unequivocal law of Ireland. The law mentions nothing about resigning, just a simple statement of fact that one can only be a member of one legislative assembly at one time. Resigning is a simple courtesy to tell the nice people in our parliament in Brussels/Strasbourg to update their records and website. Also, the fact that a substitute is being named means that there is a vacancy, which means that Carthy is not an MEP. Spleodrach (talk)

Discussion now at Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. FDW777 (talk) 20:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Removing material from a biography because of our own understanding of applicable laws clearly violates both WP:BLP and WP:OR. We don't use what we "know" about any subject but especially not in BLP articles. We use what the sources say. Unless and until there is a WP:RS that says, "Carthy resigned his seat in the Dail today because of his election as a MEP" we don't say that. This is why OR is a core content policy. It doesn't matter if what we "know to be right" actually is right unless there is a RS that we can cite. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)