Talk:Matt Hardy/Archive 2

Could someone please edit his title accomplishments?
I see that it's saying he's a 6 time world tag team champion,but I know for a fact,that it should be   7 time world tag team champion along with being 1 time wwe tag team champion.Thing is,i know because the commentators on the Smackdown brand constantly mention this,but I can't edit this article because it's locked and I'm a new user,(i need to wait 2 more days for this to change :D)But I can't actually find the source,(wwe site perhaps?)and so I'd really like a response at my talk page. Sammy theeditor (talk) 04:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Replied on his talk page. Suffice it to say that the article is correct. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 10:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No hes a 6 time WORLD TAG TEAM Champion, a 1 time WCW Tag Team Champion, and a 1 time WWE Tag Team Champion, giving him a total of 8 World Tag Team titles, its no diffrent to Ric Flair being called a 16 time World Champion, when he never held the World Heavyweight Championship.

The Shocker
In my opinion, I dont think we need to say that Matt Hardy's V1 sign has slight similarites to a sexual hand gesture 58.6.83.176 (talk) 14:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Diving Leg Drop as a Finisher?
Shouldn't it be noted this was his finisher for some time? I'm not exactly sure which years he used it in though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.94.205 (talk) 15:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Its noted under his signature moves Adster95 (talk) 18:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

New Picture
We need a new picture of Matt Hardy this one is bad also weve got to update the page —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brothers of destruction (talk • contribs) 15:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * a) There are seven pictures of Matt on the page. PLease be more specific, and b) update the page with what? Nothing noteworthy has happened since he won the US Championship. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 16:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Two tagteam moves that matt did with jeff still need to be put on the page. 1. The Rapture ( While an opponent is at the corner of the ring Matt does a neckbreaker while jeff does a sitout powerbomb from the second rope. 2. that move they did to Morrison on the July 15 2008 episode of ECW where they lifted Morrison up and slammed him back onto the mat.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.253.121 (talk) 00:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) They have to be used often enough to be recognised as signature movesm and 2) you need a reliable source for any move names. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 00:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Well on the Hardys DVD ,"Twist of Fate", that came out a while ago, Jeff called the first move up there The Rapture and they showed them doing the move while he was explaining it. And plus it's kind of hard for them to be doing tagteam moves since the WWE isn't using them as a tagteam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.219.180 (talk) 08:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

frist
should it be noted that he is frist wrestler to have hold the European Championship,Hardcore Championship ,Cruiserweight Championship ,United States Championship  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcos26 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * no theres nothing note worthy about it58.6.83.176 (talk) 14:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * What is a Frist Wrestler? --98.26.33.108 (talk) 03:54, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe he means "first". ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 13:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

PWI 500
I checked Matt's PWI singles competitior rating for 2008, and it's forty-one. Is that not good enough to add? I think it should be noted MVP's rating from last year is on his Wikipedia profile, and it was forty-seven. 75.70.219.136 (talk) 02:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To keep the champ/accomplishments from being overwhemingly long, only the highest PWI 500 ranking is listed for each wrestler. That is why his #17 ranking is included. Nikki  311  02:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. 75.70.219.136 (talk) 23:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Burchill
That link that is provided doesn't say that he's dating Katie Lea --L0W3R1D3R | TH3 L0W3D0WN 01:36, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was vandalism. Someone placed in the article in front of that cite. I have removed it accordingly. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 12:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Matt Hardy denied he's dating Katie Lea in his latest blog, anyways. 75.70.219.136 (talk) 23:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Sports entertainer
1. He refers to his occupation as sports entertainer. 2. Vince McMahon, the owner of the company that Hardy works for, has been calling it sports entertainment since the 1980's.

Considering the above two, wouldn't it be more accurate to refer to him as a sports entertainer than pro wrestler?Philname1 (talk) 14:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No. He is a professional wrestler. That's his job. He wrestles professionally for a living. Therefore he is a professional wrestler. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 14:33, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Vince calls it sports entertainment. Shouldn't he be the ultimate authority on the subject? Isn't sports entertainment a better description for what he does?Philname1 (talk) 17:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No, not really. I would say that professional wrestling is the best description for what he does. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 19:22, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * What about refering to him as a "pro wrestler/sports entertainer"? ex: Matt Hardy is an american pro wrestler/sports entertainer currently working for wwe. Wouldn't that be a better fit? Philname1 (talk) 07:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

New Pics
A lot of these photos are outdated, and though I always like to keep a few remnants of the past, I also believe there are far too many old ones. Also, the one in the section about his feud with MVP is just... Not his best one, shall we say? I know he still isn't in as good of shape as he once was, but he looks a Hell of a lot better than he does in that photo.

So in conclusion, there should be at least one photo of him with the United States Championship and one with the ECW Championship, the later preferably being put in the growing section of his time in ECW. 75.70.219.136 (talk) 21:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The only way to get new pics is to go to an event and take them yourself (or hope that someone else does). Nikki  311  21:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Bummer. If I happen to go to a show anytime soon (though the WWE just came back to Colorado after FIVE YEARS, so it might not be soon) I'll add them, as long as that's okay. Plus, me mentioning this in discussion might raise the likelihood someone will add pictures, if they happen to see that people are beginning to take notice that the pictures are outdated. But that's just assuming. 75.70.219.136 (talk) 02:36, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a good one of him with the ECW Championship on the page now. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 13:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Did a fan really take that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.219.136 (talk) 06:12, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

His Middle Name is Not Combs
Matt Hardy's initials are MMH, his middle name being listed as Moore generally speaking. 70.42.211.4 (talk) 05:22, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Charity, 01/08/2009
 * It was vandalism. Reverted. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 06:01, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protection
I've had the article semi-protected for a month due to excessive vandalism. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 05:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

move to SmackDown Brand
ECW opens with Theodore Long in the ring. He says that Matt Hardy has requested his release from ECW and will now be on SmackDown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BryanB2227 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (From your edit summary) Wrestlezone is not a reliable source. Another needs to be found for that info to be added to the article. Alternatively, we could wait until ECW airs. Whichever works. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 04:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, check out WP:PW/SG for what are reliable and unreliable sources. Wrestlezone is considered unreliable.  TJ   Spyke   04:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is also another site: www.wrestlingnewsworld.com stating that ECW GM Teddy Long would announce that Matt Hardy resigned ECW to move to Smackdown! on Jan. 27's ECW. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.53.87.65 (talk) 16:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Still not a reliable source. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 18:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=36130&p=1 fine-this ones listed as reliable. check it out. matts going to SmackDown to feud with Jeff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.24.85.169 (talk) 18:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not reliable. In addition, we have to wait until it airs on WWE television.-- TRU    CO   19:09, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not true, Truco. If you have a reliable source, spoilers may be posted.  Simon KSK  01:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

heel turn
although it looks certain that he has turned heel at the royal rumble. i just feel we could wait before it is more official. this mght not be relevent but wwe.com are holding a vote which says matt hardy might have had his reasons and shawn micheals attacked john cena but that does not make him a heel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.17.111.12 (talk) 21:22, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, so I've removed it. Beside with Matt's popularity, it's a possibility that he just becomes a tweener. Saying he's a heel now violates WP:OR and WP:CRYSTAL. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 21:25, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * About Shawn, remember that at the PPV JBL said Michaels would not have to work for him anymore if he helped JBL win the match. So it wasn't really turning heel (especially since he also superkicked JBL).  TJ   Spyke   21:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

HBK is currently a tweener which is inbetween a face and a heel. And due to him kicking JBL and Cena proves that he is the definition of a tweener as he gets both heat and pops. Now I know that Cena gets heat and pops at every event, but that his for other reasons as he is disliked by both hardcore and pure wrestling fans which the heat has nothing to do with his character like Shawn Michaels heat and boos from the crowd do. I brought this up to disprove your point that we don't know if Matt Hardy is a heel yet, which Matt has verified on his myspace display name that he has. The whole Shawn Michaels thing is irrelevant though (just said it to disprove your point) because he will be turning face again in the upcoming weeks to feud with JBL. 69.248.229.206 (talk) 05:15, 28 January 2009 (UTC) PS. Sorry for all the edits on the talk page, but my keyboard has been wacky lately and there were a lot of typos that needed to be fixed to help you guys out with the whole Matt Hardy heel turn situation. I apologize for the edits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.229.206 (talk • contribs)


 * He hit his own brother in the head with a chair, costing him the chance to win the title, and there is doubt that he has turned heel? Sometimes I think some of you Wikipedia editors that spend all your time removing obvious information out of these wrestling articles must live in the twilight zone. He is a heel. I was at Smackdown tonight. You should have heard the boos. And the things he said, he has clearly turned heel. Later, he rendered Hurricane Helms unconscious. Still don't think he's a heel? 98.220.43.195 (talk) 09:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Normally I'd agree with you, but outside of the chair shot to Jeff, your whole final argument hasn't shown on television yet and at the point at which I'm typing this is still an hour and a half away from even starting to show. Stating indisputably that he cemented his heel turn on Smackdown before Smackdown even airs is directly violating the whole "Wikipedia is not a spoiler site" thing. An interesting point to note, though, after the show is over and the heel turn note can finally be included, is that this is the second time he attacked Jeff, turned heel, and joined the Smackdown brand all within the same succession (the first being the genesis of the 2002-03 Mattitude era). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.10.197.113 (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

HE HIT HIS BROTHER OVER THE HEAD WITH A CHAIR, COSTING HIM HIS CHAMPIONSHIP -- CLASSIC HEEL TURN. HE DISAVOWED HIS BROTHER, AND THE FANS, ON SMACKDOWN. ANOTHER CLASSIC HEEL TURN. SO WHEN ARE SOME OF YOU EDITORS GOING TO STOP REVERTING EVERY TIME SOMEONE PUTS SOMETHING IN ABOUT HIS HEEL TURN? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? Nightmareishere (talk) 22:20, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 1)Learn how to type. 2)See WP:CIVIL.  TJ   Spyke   22:30, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I will be civil when people like NiciVampireHeart stop reverting perfectly good entries referring to a clear-cut heel turn. Every time I or someone else tries to add "heel turn" to the article, it is reverted. Why? Nightmareishere (talk) 22:32, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * You can't choose when to be civil, you either be civil or get warned. You have to ask them why.  TJ   Spyke   22:34, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it is week-by-week non-notable additions. By adding heel to the paragraph about him and the Royal Rumble is enough without adding what he did on SmackDown. -- TRU    CO   22:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a quick reminder: Words like "heel" shouldn't be used in the article anyway, as it goes against WP:JARGON. If it is a word that a person who knows nothing about wrestling wouldn't understand, it needs to be explained or a common alternative should be used. Nikki  ♥  311  22:42, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I've heard the term "heel" used outside of wrestling. One of Webster's definitions for the word is " a contemptible person". Yes it's mostly famous for being used in wrestling, but I would not consider it jargon at all.  TJ   Spyke   22:46, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Truco, when I added "heel" to the RR paragraph, it got reverted, too! By the way, the explanation about not using the term "heel" because it is jargon is a crock. I've seen lots of wrestler articles that use the term. Besides, wouldn't most people reading an article about Matt Hardy be familiar with the terminology? And even if they're not, that's why we use these:, So if people DON'T know what it means, they can click on it and find out. I suggest if people are going to follow Matt Hardy from here on out, they'd better be familiar with what a heel is. What's wrong with educating people on terminology they might not otherwise have heard? Isn't that what an encyclopedia, on-line or otherwise, is about -- LEARNING SOMETHING? Nightmareishere (talk) 22:51, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * They reverted because they were unaware of this conversation. Actually no its a new policy we must abide to per WP:JARGON and WP:IN-U. We must write articles of all types in a out-of-universe perspective, the word "heel" is jargon. Which is why an explanation must be given or a reworded statement must be used instead.-- TRU  CO   22:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * So who decides what is jargon? I agree with the editor who said it is a term understood outside of wrestling. What is the litmus test for determining jargon vs. non-jargon? Sounds like a mess to me. Nightmareishere (talk) 22:56, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Jimbo decided it. But anyway, I think it's a heel turn. Not that my opinion counts more than others. Anyway. CFountain (talk) 23:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Outside wrestling the term heel is used basically the same as the word "jerk" (i.e. "I've been such a heel").  TJ   Spyke   05:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I've never heard the word "heel" used outside of wrestling. *Shrugs* Maybe it's 'cause I'm from Europe, but I've never heard it used. Oh, and User:Nightmareishere, if you have a problem with my edits, my talk page is always open for discussion, however, I believe I was right in reverting your edits; it is week-by-week. And you need to careful of WP:3RR as well. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 11:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * RE:Spyke...realistically, how often do you hear someone use the word heel when it doesn't relate to wrestling or feet? It may be a definition, but it is not a common one, at least not in the 21st century. RE:Nightmare...it is jargon if someone who doesn't understand wrestling would not get it. All articles are supposed to be accessible to all people, not just wrestling fans. In addition, the term "heel" does still exist in some articles, but that is because there are over 3,000 wrestling articles on Wikipedia, with only so many people changing the terms, and people who do no understand the guidelines adding them back in. Nikki  ♥  311  01:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of words that are not used that frequently (like iconoclast), but that doesn't change the fact that it is not just a wrestling term. As for use in articles, from what I can tell you only need to explain what it means the first time in the article (meaning say that a heel is a bad guy basically, then you can just use the term again in the rest of the article).  TJ   Spyke   01:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "I've been a heel"? O mai Gawd! Who says that?! Spyke, that was lame.  Simon KSK  01:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is an example of a non-wrestling related use of the term .  TJ   Spyke   01:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That story is from Fox News, so I know it can't be trusted. :) Anyway...I guess, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Nikki  ♥  311  02:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Nicknames
Matt Hardy has been referring to himself on his Myspace page as "The Black Cloud", "The Starmaker", and "Cold Blood". Should these be added to his nicknames, or would it be wiser to wait until these are mentioned on Smackdown? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.112.138.61 (talk) 04:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wait. They aren't really nicknames until they have been used multiple times.  TJ   Spyke   04:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with TJ. Referring to yourself as something once or twice doesn't amke it a nickname. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 11:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

World champion
Matt had won the ECW Championship and the championship is considered as world championship by WWE. So, should it written that Matt had became 1 time World Champion? --Rimara (talk) 15:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rimara (talk • contribs) 12:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Hardcore Championship
Matt had won the Hardcore Championship. Why there is no mention about it in his article? Like when and who he defeated to won the title. --Rimara (talk) 15:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added it in the The Hardy Boyz (1998–2001) section as he won it in 2000. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 16:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Success as single wrestler
Matt had won two major single titles in WWE, the ECW Championship & United States Championship. It should be written that "Matt also enjoyed success as single wrestler" instead of just "Matt had also won numerous single championship". --Rimara (talk) 15:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Why? It means the same basic thing. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 16:09, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

WM25 win
Is it worth mentions? Supermike (talk) 10:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think so, his feud with Jeff has been going on since Royal Rumble. I would be careful not to say it's over though since we don't know that.  TJ   Spyke   02:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

True I guess that goes for all of the feuds then wouldn't itSupermike (talk) 10:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. You can add info about the feud, but not say it's over without proof (like them starting a new feud).  TJ   Spyke   02:49, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

New attire
Should we mention about his new attire he wore at Wrestlemania 25? --Rimara (talk) 12:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Attire is never notable unless it comes with a complete overhaul (change) of his character on television. Plus this is WrestleMania, so it could have just been a one time thing.-- T ru  c o   14:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Remember Triple H's Conan the Barbarian outfit at WrestleMania? Or Finlay's outfit last night? Some wrestlers have unique outfits for WrestleMania.  TJ   Spyke   17:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not one time thing. Matt has wore the same attire on this past Monday Night Raw. --Rimara (talk) 12:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Still not notable IMO. Costume changes aren't notable most of the time. Most wrestlers tend to change their look once in awhile. It would really only be worth mentioning if it is a radical change (like when Sting started his Crow image).  TJ   Spyke   16:14, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Twist of Hate & The Leech
In his WWE universe blog, Matt has name two of his new moves; Twist of Hate(Twist of Fate with his victim's neck placed within a steel chair) & The Leech(a submission hold formerly known as Scar). Should we list these moves on his Finishing & Signature Moves section? --Rimara (talk) 12:11, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Only if he uses them on a regular basis, using a move once or twice doesn't make it a signature move.  TJ   Spyke   16:15, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Scar I'm sure he'll use on a regular basis, but the Twist of Hate seems like it wouldn't be used except in gimmick matches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.97.199 (talk) 23:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Black Cloud
Should "The Black Cloud" Matt Hardy be listed as one of his nicknames? He's used it on his myspace account and alluded to it when he mentioned Jeff Hardy had a black cloud looming over his head. He may have even called himself this in one of his promos but he has definitely alluded to it in most of his heel promos. I don't believe any commentators have called him that but they may have said something about the black cloud and Matt. 206.74.211.248 (talk) 18:48, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sigh, see . People (it's not just IPs who do it) should read a talkpage first to see if something is already being discussed.  TJ   Spyke   18:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)