Talk:Matthew Barzun

Untitled
Admin note: speedy deletion restored per editor's request. Added hangon tag on editor's behalf to get a little time to add notability sources. Please do not delete till the end of Feb 25 if no editor has contributed and asserted. -- Alexf(talk) 23:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine with me, but the single mention of his name in a magazine article hasn't produced much in the way of qualifying sources. Accounting4Taste: talk 02:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Now they're there. I agree with the removal of the speedy; good work.  Accounting4Taste: talk 15:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --VernoWhitney (talk) 22:58, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians, inhale wong — Preceding unsigned comment added by HiSpeedWillieOnFeels (talk • contribs) 20:00, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Matthew Barzun. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090804100005/http://stockholm.usembassy.gov:80/newsflash/barzun_testimony.html to http://stockholm.usembassy.gov/newsflash/barzun_testimony.html

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The elite St. Paul's School
User:Onel5969 has deleted "the elite" from the phrase "he was a student at the elite St. Paul's School, Concord, New Hampshire" with the edit summary "remove peacock term". I reverted the edit with the summary "The linked article suggests that the term is justified in the sense that the school provides elitist education, as with Eton College". Onel5969 re-reverted with the edit summary "nope".

The St. Paul's School article indicates that it educates the children of the elite and that the its students often join the elite. If so it would be equivalent to Eton College in England. Writing "the elite St. Paul's School" gives a useful insight into Barzun's background, and it is not simply a peacock term intended to puff up the reputation of the school. In the same way we could say "the elite Harvard College", but in my view Harvard is sufficiently well known for this to be unnecessary.

Onel5969, the edit summary "nope" is inadequate and does not address the point I raised. Are you claiming that elite is not an accurate description of St. Paul's School, or are you just saying that we should not describe it in this way here? Please respond here or I will add the elite again. Verbcatcher (talk) 03:06, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Please read WP:PEACOCK. Terms like "elite" are subjective.  Onel 5969  TT me 03:34, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I have read WP:PEACOCK. It does not ban terms like elite except where they are unsourced and used for promotion. In this case it is a reasonable term to apply to the school and adds useful context. The school's article says, with a source:
 * "According to Shamus Khan, author of Privilege: The Making of an Adolescent Elite at St. Paul's School and a sociologist who is a St. Paul's alumnus, students are socialized to function as privileged holders of power and status in an open society. Privilege in meritocracy is acquired through talent, hard work, and a wide variety of cultural and social experiences."


 * There are several other citations in the article where elite school is in the title. However, you have now deleted the paragraph as unsourced so the issue lapses. Verbcatcher (talk) 04:14, 7 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I have restored the article with sources. Do you still object to elite? Would you accept it if I cited Shamus Khan's book in this article? Verbcatcher (talk) 04:32, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, because it's subjective. Of all the adjectives which could be used (and cited), why not use "disgraced"? Simply state he went to the school, provide the link, and let the reader make their own determination.  Onel 5969  TT me 12:00, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

I want to indicate that the fact that Barzun went to this school implies that he is from an American upper class background, and that he probably remains in this social group. This is probably obvious to those familar with the workings of this class, but we should make this explicit. Wikipedia should try to avoid coded phrases that are not clear to the general reader. However, 'elite school' is probably not the best way of achieving this as it could be taken to mean that Barzun is particularly intelligent, not that he comes from a priviledged background. I would prefer something like "...which is known for educating the children of the American upper class". I won't add this now because I can't cite a good source. Khan's book is probably a good source for this, but I don't have a copy to check. Verbcatcher (talk) 19:41, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131119055738/http://london.usembassy.gov/ukpapress137.html to http://london.usembassy.gov/ukpapress137.html

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