Talk:Matthew Hale (jurist)/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Emw (talk) 04:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

This is an excellent article. I've edited it to make some trivial improvements; please revert as you see fit. Below are several points, organized by section, that should be addressed.

Lead

 * The phrase "Serjeant-at-Law" should be wikilinked. It is wikilinked in its abbreviated form, SL, but most readers will not notice this and likely benefit from a link to the full term at its first use.
 * "Royalist" needs an appropriate wikilink.

Early life and education

 * Is a phrase like "Magdalen College, Oxford, where Hale studied between 1626 and 1628." a complete sentence? If not, then it shouldn't end with a period.  This applies throughout the article.
 * Done. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The quote in the following sentence looks like a probable infraction of MOS:LQ: "His father gave up his practise as a barrister several years before Hale's birth "because he could not understand the reason of giving colour in pleadings"." There are many other quotes in the article which look like they should also be fixed in this regard.
 * Actually, no; in the source, that ends in a comma. Since here it is the end of the sentence, I felt it silly to go ,"., and chose instead to cut it off before the punctuation. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I have relatively little understanding of law, but I feel like the following sentence should be less confusing: "Such an allegation would be legal rather than factual, and as such decided by the judge with no reference to the jurors." I think lay readers would benefit from some brief context on what "legal rather than factual" means.
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This sentence should be split: "Hale thus passed into the care of Anthony Kingscot, one of his father's relatives, a strong Puritan  who had Hale taught by a Mr. Stanton, the vicar of Wotton known as the "scandalous vicar" due to his extremist puritan views."
 * Done. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Not only that" is too colloquial.
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Glanville successfully persuaded Hale to become a lawyer...". How so?  This is alluded to in the lead, but only in this much detail.  A sentence or more should be devoted to Glanville's persuasion of Hale.
 * I would if I had the information, but none of the biographers seem to know more than "they had a chat and Hale decided to become a lawyer". Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I imagine the phrase "drinking to health" is a strictly British idiom, in which case I think it should be generalized.
 * To what, exactly? Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikilink 'Roman civil law'.
 * Done. Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Barrister
I will continue this review in the coming days. Emw (talk) 04:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The semicolon in which marks off the quotation makes the following sentence unwieldy: "He refused to accept unjust cases, and always tried to be on the "right" side of any case; "If he saw that a cause was unjust, he for a great while would not meddle further in it but to give his advice that it was so; if the parties after that would go on, they were to seek another counsellor, for he would assist none in acts of injustice"."
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The term "attainer" should have some sort of appositive, and be wikilinked.
 * Linked: appositive? Ironholds (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikilink "Act of Attainder". Would this phrase be substantively different than simply "attainder"? If not, then consider using just the simpler term.
 * Yes, so I'm using different terms. Linked. Ironholds (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "...that Hale did not appear." Appear where?  Even given context, I see little reason for the omission.
 * "to appear" is to represent somebody in court; I've given a bit more context. Ironholds (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Hale Commission
I don't see any problems with this section.

Justice of the Common Pleas

 * A brief phrase explanation of what the Court of Common Pleas is would be helpful context.
 * Brief explanation added; I'm actually about to start writing a complete reworking of the whole CCP article. Ironholds (talk) 13:56, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Member of Parliament

 * Considering changing the phrase "moved a motion" to something less redundant.
 * Done. Ironholds (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There seems to be a missing quotation mark in the that same sentence (beginning "Hale moved a motion in the Commons").
 * Where, sorry? Ironholds (talk) 13:57, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There are three quotation marks in the following excerpt: Hale moved in the Commons that "a committee might be appointed to look into the overtures that had been made, and the concessions that had been offered, by Charles I and "from thence to digest such propositions, as they should think fit to be sent over to Charles II" who was still in Breda. Emw (talk) 23:55, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh, gotcha. Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Chief Baron and Chief Justice

 * Fix tense here: "Hale said that he only hear about cases in court".
 * Done. Ironholds (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Hale remarked with irony...". The proceeding quote seems humorous, perhaps, but not ironic per se.  Other word choice may be better.
 * Sod it, just scrapped. Ironholds (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Retirement and death

 * The term "writ of ease" seems like it could warrant a wikilink.
 * We don't seem to have an article. Ironholds (talk) 13:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there any more specific information on the cause of Hale's death?
 * Not that I can find. Ironholds (talk) 13:59, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Personal life

 * Presumably "[hale]" should be capitalized.
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 14:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be more proper to say "who was appointed an executrix"?
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 14:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Legacy

 * In "drunkenness is not a defence to uphold a conviction", is drunkenness being used to support or oppose the conviction? My understanding of the word 'uphold' makes me think the former, but the context makes me think it could be the latter.  Perhaps there's a word that would better prevent confusion here.
 * Wrong context on both; it needs to be viewed in the context of the entire sentence. I've clarified it somewhat. Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Should "Alberta Law Quarterly" be italicized?
 * It's normal to italicise journals, I thought? Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. The title should be italicized. Emw (talk) 23:48, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Is 'privelege' spelled so in the source?
 * Nope, that's my fuckup. Fixed. Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Writings

 * There seems to be some word -- like "possible" -- missing from the following quotation: "by a study of the entire corpus of Hale's writings to reconstruct the coherent legal philosophy that underlies them". If such a word is indeed missing from the source, then it should probably be added in brackets to the quotation to aid the reader.
 * Yup; the source gives it, so I've added it. Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Should "British Journal of Law and Society" be italicized?
 * See above. Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Jurisprudence

 * From its article, "Cambridge Law Journal" looks like it should be italicized.
 * Fixed Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

List of works

 * The year of publication for several of Hale's works is missing. Why?
 * Simply because some weren't formally published. Selden left Hale his manuscripts, and with Hale's additions, those manuscripts are found in the library of Lincoln's Inn. Many of the works are found only there; he had this frustrating habit of hastily scribbling down a half-page manuscript that completely torpedoed a pillar of legal positivism, and then shoving it in a book he was reading and forgetting about it. Ironholds (talk) 14:08, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Concluding remarks
The minor concerns listed above have been addressed. All images seem to be properly licensed, and the summaries seem passable. (The summary of one image, File:Sir_Matthew_Hale.jpg, seems like it could be improved, but I don't consider this blocking.) This well-written and comprehensive biography of an influential but somewhat lesser-known-to-the-lay-public jurist seems similar in some respects to that of Learned Hand. After any remaining notable material about Hale has been squeezed from available sources, I would encourage the nomination of this article for featured status. I consider this article to now meet the good article criteria. Accordingly I have promoted it to good article status. Emw (talk) 03:48, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks muchly, dude. I'll take a look at FAC after I've finished the next legal writeup, a far greater jurist - Sir Edward Coke. Ironholds (talk) 12:22, 4 July 2010 (UTC)