Talk:Max Ernst

Concentration Camp?
This article says:
 * Following the onset of World War II, Ernst was detained as an enemy alien but with the assistance of the American journalist Varian Fry in Marseille, he managed to escape the country with Peggy Guggenheim.

..but the Leonora Carrington article says he was put into a German concentration camp:


 * The new couple collaborated and supported each other's artistic development until the German's invaded their French village and took Ernst to a concentration camp in 1940.

..and this article has no mention of Leonora Carrington. Can someone more knowledgeable on this subject help to clarify this ambiguity?-Eric 05:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Movie title
Should the movie title "Dangerous Correspondance" have the existing French spelling or should it be the English spelling: "Dangerous Correspondence"? --darklilac 21:05, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Age?
at the beginning of the article, it says:


 * "Max Ernst (April 2, 1891 – April 1, 1976) was a German dadaist and surrealist artist."

..however, "under Life" it reads:


 * "Max Ernst was born in Bruhl, Germany. In 1910, he enrolled in the University of Bonn to study philosophy but soon abandoned the courses."

..should the sentence be changed? I know it's imparting that he enrolled at the age of 19, but upon initial scanning, i in error thought it was stating that he was (incorrectly) born in 1910.

--Threatis 12:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Important paintings
This section is an important and essential part of this article, demonstrating the paintings Visually. It is necessary in order to correctly understand Max Ernst the Surrealist painter. Modernist 12:50, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The section violates WP:NFCC . Rettetast 10:45, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * With respect to your opinion - I Don't Think So. - Modernist 16:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC) see sections 5 through 10 in the policy you cite! or see WP:NFC section 2.3. and see WP:WPFU.


 * Rettetast - You can express an opinion here or here:
 * Under WP:NFC and WP:UCS - per WP:NFC see acceptable images #7, per WP:UCS - should be obvious, All these images have valid Fair Use Rationales, including one image that has its own article, and they illustrate in this article an important Visual artist's pioneering innovations that cannot be described any other way. A matter of opinion here and I do not agree with you. Modernist 12:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

It is definitely established that certain use of non-free image content is allowed for art. However, the images should be anchored in the text, which should refer to them. At the moment this does not happen. There are too many images for the amount of text, and the images cannot be relied on alone to convey the meaning. If the text were expanded and the images referred to specifically, then inclusion could probably be justified. Non-free use should be kept to a minimum and to the essential. At the moment, the non-free use is excessive in relation to the existing text, and some could be justified, but not so many. So: expand text or remove some of the images. Tyrenius 15:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, frankly the gallery worked much better. I'll reduce the number of images. Modernist 15:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that the original selection of images was a little excessive. Still I hold the opinion that in an article about a visual artist it is sometimes necessary to include several examples of thier work when that artist's career spans a wide varity of styles over a long period of time. I think that the selection of images used now represents the most important examples of Ernst's work. I have also decided to re-include Ubu Imperator as it is on of Ernst's most famous works. Justin Foote 00:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
 * yet again Ive removed the images that shouldnt be in the article right now. Unless there is critical commentary about the images dont use them. you cant just show a list of major works. If you want to do something like that, research the background, history, and affects of the image, and then the use of the image may be used. Using images without showing that the article must have the image isnt allowed. create the text that requires the images, dont just list the images. βcommand 01:33, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I added two paintings from 1937-1942. The text concerning World War II supports the two paintings from the period 1937 through 1942. Don't remove them, they visually depict what cannot be depicted with words. Modernist 04:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I re-included Ubu Imperator as it is one of Ernst's most famous works. See remarks above by Justin Foote. - Modernist 14:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Selected paintings?
The selected paintings list is entirely too long, and does not seem the least bit "selected." This needs to be trimmed by at least half. --- RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  05:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Difficult to know how to prune this list. I know what's notable in terms of stylistic innovation, public recognition, etc, and it would seem obvious to include some of the best examples of different eras & styles, such as collages, assemblages, decalcomanias, sculptures, etc. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 12:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, and that is why I did not edit the list last night. There really has to be a discussion first.  But, at this point, that list is longer than the rest of the article.  How many of those works have separate articles? ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  15:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Making space
It looks like the picture of Ernst as a young man will be deleted. Modernist (talk) 12:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it will be missed. Are you deleting it? ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  15:49, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's up for debate on Commons, but given there is an image of Ernst with Dorothea, I can't get too excited about losing this one. It's copyright status is moot, but I guess the Commons guys know about this sort of thing. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 15:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I was not aware it was up for debate.  Regardless, I really cannot get exercised about it. ---  RepublicanJacobite  The'FortyFive'  16:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thats not my point, - I mentioned it because there will be room for another image once it goes. In fact if you want to place a different image there - say one of the paintings it might work. Modernist (talk) 23:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea, and my opinion would be that it could be one that even a casual reader would probably be familiar with, such as The Elephant Celebes. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 23:15, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd rather use a picture that isn't currently being used. The Elephant Celebes is currently the lead image on Surrealism. Little Machine Constructed by Minimax Dadamax in Person (1919-1920) or The Hat Makes the Man (1920) might work. - Modernist (talk) 04:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Max deserves much more e-Ink in Wikipedia
For example, "La femme cent têtes" has no entry in Wikpedia. A few suggestions as to where we can begin to expand this section:

1. In addition to Met catalog of 2005 (haven't seen); the catalog of the stellar retrospective at the Guggenheim in 1975, edited by Diane Waldman. Contributions by her would be ideal if she is available; see http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE3D6103DF934A35750C0A965958260

2. Leonora Carrington is about 91. http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2007/jan/02/art#article_continue

3. French and German language Wikipedia entries for Ernst (not so hot, but may have something relevant).

4. Metropolitan Museum of Art surrealism show in 2002 http://www.metmuseum.org/special/se_event.asp?OccurrenceId=%7B694886C2-280A-11D5-93F2-00902786BF44%7D

This show included:

Men Shall Know Nothing of This http://www.metmuseum.org/special/surrealism_desire_unbound/2.L.htm and The Robing of the Bride http://www.metmuseum.org/special/surrealism_desire_unbound/10.L.htm

5. Possibly the museum: http://www.maxernstmuseum.lvr.de/

6. Understanding private content issues, perhaps journalists for the Guardian and the NY Times (Russell) might be contacted and asked to contribute: http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2003/dec/06/art http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE2DA1139F93AA15752C0A96F948260&sec=&spon=&&scp=1&sq=max%20ernst%20russell%201989&st=cse

A few additional observations/recommendations:

a. Wikipedia lists should ALWAYS be in alphabetical order - take this to every page you edit. It is a huge hassle to redo a list in random (or author favored) order. Chronological lists are fine for catalogs, but not encyclopedias, unless they are so subtitled.

b. Ernst's greatest hits shouldn't be commented merely because there are no associated articles. La femme, Two children and And the butterflies are mandatories.

c. When listing artworks, the French/German/English issue is pertinent for Ernst. Recommend English with original language title in parentheses.

Building out this section will be a real pleasure for everyone who contributes. Thank you in advance.

Dstlascaux (talk) 05:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Certainly some expansion would be desirable, I have the catalogue for the Tate Gallery 1991 retrospective, but not to hand, and there is lots of useful information in it. I also doubt that lists must be alphabetical, per Lists, in fact it's customary to list a director's or actor's films, or a band's recordings, in chronological order. -- Rodhull andemu  12:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I know Im a nooob sorry.
Sorry to bug you guys, Im a noob here. Max Ernst is my favorite painter of all time. I really, really appreciate you guys writing an article about him. If I ever figure out how Wikipedia works I'll try to contribute. And whoever found that brilliant photo of Max and Dorothea? Wow just wow!

Anyone remember the crazy Love Triangle poor Max got mixed up in?

174.21.19.236 (talk) 09:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Known for his poetry?
In the infobox it says he was known for "painting, sculpture, and poetry" and yet nothing is said about his poetry. May I suggest that either something about it be added or that "poetry" be removed? DBlomgren (talk) 19:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:22, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Max morise, max ernst e andré masson, cadaveri eccellenti (cadavre exquis), 1927.jpg

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 * Houghton Typ 915.22.3605 Répétitions, 1922 - frontispiece.jpg