Talk:Max Hardcore

Deleted content
This notice is in place by way of replacing a post by anonymous IP 84.140.214.129 (talk) at 01:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC) which was a blatant violation of WP:BLP in that it accused the subject of this article of a criminal act not referenced in the story, and without a reliable source. I'm aware it's bad form to delete other people's messages, but after close examination of the WP:BLP policy, I feel justified in removing this material and it not only was a BLP violation, but was also potentially libellous. 70.72.211.35 (talk) 16:52, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Sources?
Most of the material on this page appears to be 'adapted' from the rotten.com article on the same subject. Although the Rotten profile is good, it can also be found on Max Hardcore's own website, which might create a problem. As Max Hardcore is, to put it mildly, something of a controversial figure, perhaps further research is needed?

If I have time, I will adapt this page myself. Thanks Will Lakeman 18:54, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

I changed a line from (paraphrase) there worthlessness as people to 'what his characters claim are there worthlessness as people'. One is a character judgement, the other is a plot description. To claim porn actressess are worthless is a terriblly non-NPOV act of misanthropy. - Duckmonster (And I apologise, I dont watch porn, but this is self evident. No one is worthless)

Duck, in fairness, it does say the characters revel in the worthlessness (thus not the real people). But, the real reason that I am commenting here is that it does not seem to me that Max Hardcore should be credited with the frequency of anal sex in porn. This was already a dominant feature of a lot of porn by the time he became active. His role in the obvious misogyny of current porn is worth exploring however.--SVTCobra 02:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

The article lists his DOB as 1944, but yet the article is in the "1956 category". I would edit it myself to fix the incongruity, but I am unsure of which is the correct date. --McGravin 18:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I read through the article and to me it's pretty NPOV as it is. All sides of the story are included, so IMO we could remove the neutrality dispute tag. --Rasbelin 13:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd guess 1956 ... 1944 would make him 62 now and he doesn't look nearly so old. Benwing 23:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The Bureau of Prisons site linked on this page gives Paul Little's age as 53. Dick Kimball (talk) 20:03, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

AGE NOTE: the year is actually 1956 (hence i changed it in the info). Max and I have the same hometown. He is the most famous person from Racine, WI!!! if you have ever visited there, its not difficult to understand how he turned out the way he did! i also added the first makings of an 'early life' section, to try and trace max's roots in Racine, but i found little info. Zenzizenzizenzic 18:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm also from Racine, and I'd like to say that I agree with "Zen's" comment about "If you have ever visited [Racine], it's not difficult to understand how he turned out the way he did." 129.89.197.175 05:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)rubinia

What exactly does that mean? 66.30.196.89 (talk) 02:47, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Tags
I've added three tags to the article: --Anchoress 01:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Verification because it doesn't cite any sources
 * POV because some sections are not NPOV, particularly the section on his early life
 * Accuracy because the info in the first paragraph contradicts the infobox, and some of what's in the infobox seems highly dubious (blue eyed negro? weighs 90 lbs?).

New Trial
Someone needs to write a section about his new indecency trial. Apparently its going to be a big one, with the government trying to seize his assets and all.--Hndsmepete 05:25, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

-

Prosecutions
Does anyone know why Little ("Hardcore") has started serving a prison sentence while his case is still being appealed? Dick Kimball (talk) 13:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Tsk, tsk, Not exactly NPOV, are we, Anonymous Poster? And how Biblical to wish multi-generational vengeance! No, I mean most defendants don't go to prison while their cases are being appealed. Did the judge revoke his bail, increase his bail beyond what he could afford, or what? I can't believe his lawyer, Lou Sirkin, advised him to start serving a sentence before the verdict was final. My question is one of legal procedure, not Divine Vengeance. Dick Kimball (talk) 13:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Little's prison sentence appears to have been reduced. The release date on the Bureau of Prisons web site has changed from May 29, 2012 to July 13, 2011. Does anyone have information on what happened? Dick Kimball (talk) 18:31, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It may have to do with his sentence being remanded by the 11th Circuit Court, although I cannot confirm that his new sentence has been set. 68.90.244.105 (talk) 23:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Federal Correctional Institution, La Tuna in Anthony, Texas
When Robert D. Zicari (alias Rob Black) of Extreme Associates was convicted of obscenity charges in 2009 and sentenced to a year and a day in prison, he was also confined at Federal Correctional Institution, La Tuna in Anthony, Texas. Does anyone know if this is just a coincidence or if La Tuna is some sort of default choice for men convicted on federal obscenity charges. Dick Kimball (talk) 21:32, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Descriptions of action from Max videos
A recent group of edits adds descriptions of Max's treatment of actresses that are either unsourced, or based on primary sources (the videos). This lacks perspective in several ways: These things are consistent with the reputation Max has, but I cannot tell if there is a slant here (promotional or villifing -- could even be both). Could use much more sourced analysis.
 * Is all this common throughout his work?
 * Do most viewer agree this is what is being depicted, especially in the inferences about how the actresses are treated?
 * Is this sort of thing unique to Max's ouvre, or is this common in some sectors of the American porn industry?

I think some actresses have been quoted saying things about Max being generally a crummy employer. Can't think of any names. I'm wondering if the "Daddy" issue is being overplayed in this article since there now exist a few series with "Daddy" in the title, and as part of the patter in the performance &mdash; did Max pioneer this, or is he jumping on that trend? Again, sources are needed. / edg ☺ ☭ 13:21, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I actually heard an actress say that she thought he was alright, because before the filming begins he explains everything that he is going to do and asks if the girl still wants to do it. I have never watched any of his movies,by the way, and I don't think I ever will. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.148.222.114 (talk) 02:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "Is this sort of thing unique to Max's ouvre, or is this common in some sectors of the American porn industry?" I'm aware of scenes of urinating into someone's mouth in the gay ("all male") videos Meat Packing (Director's Cut) and Jeff Palmer Hardcore. It's probably no coincidence that all the gay sex in both of these titles is bareback.There are also abundant examples in the DVD's produced by John Thompson in Germany under the 666 label. One of the most popular 666 urine-in-the-mouth targets was Annette Schwarz, who has since moved to the California porn industry. Dick Kimball (talk) 18:29, 25 November 2009 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 18:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 15:02, 16 February 2010 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 20:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 12:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

There should be more discussion here about the subject matter in general or maybe a general discussion of the trend of brutality towards female actresses in the adult entertainment industry. Max Hardcore is the extreme example of this trend, without question and is I think considered the pioneer of the genre. To mention Max Hardcore without discussion of extreme female humiliation (even though it may be consensual and/or “acted” or simply a portrayal or a reality) is to overlook the essential nature of all of the Max Hardcore material that the general public is familiar with and the persona that Max Hardcore himself appears to project.

Almost all of the Max Hardcore material I have seen includes urinating on the actresses and in their mouths, depiction (whether real or contrived) of anal abuse and extreme male domination. Max Hardcore’s popularity speaks volumes about the human condition and it would be interesting to hear qualified psychologist’s thoughts and analysis of this subject matter and the possible causes of it’s gaining popularity and the possible long term psychological effects on the actresses and the viewers.

This being said I think that it should also be discussed from a legal prospective and what the ramifications are to free speech and American liberties in general should the government succeed in obscenity prosecutions against him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slarabee (talk • contribs) 15:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


 * No, there shouldn't be any more discussion about this subject since WP is not a forum. If you feel so upset about it please go to your local feminist support group. 91.44.38.79 (talk) 18:39, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Since I have a second home in France, from which this entry is submitted, I can and do purchase Max Hardcore's "Euro Edition" DVD's. At the moment I have nine on my computer table. I just made a spreadsheet and of 39 female performers, the Max Hardcore character urinates into the mouths of 33, while a 34th orally takes the urine of perhaps a dozen or so [Later Revision: I played that DVD and counted; it's eleven] men, who do not appear to include Hardcore (this last subsequent to a gang bang of two females [one of whom is, of course, #34] that also excluded Hardcore) and a 35th drinks urine from a fellow female performer. Some female performers, particularly "Catalina" who appears in literally dozens of his movies and "Summer Luv" for whom I was able to count 12, appear in multiple Max Hardcore productions, presumably indicating that they believed themselves fairly treated for the remuneration received, which may have been substantial. Dick Kimball (talk) 16:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 14:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 21:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 21:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC) Dick Kimball (talk) 14:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Can't use a single element of that... it's original research. Tabercil (talk) 18:02, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, if I cite the source DVD's as references can I make these observations? Frankly, the blanket exclusion of "horse's mouth" observations based on verifiable sources strikes me as ill-considered. Dick Kimball (talk) 13:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Adding the google group
Since this is turning into a silly revert-war, I'd like to address this issue. 3RR has been broken over the constant addition here. This clearly goes against EL. Lawshoot! 03:16, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears that an admin has decided the additions were a violation of EL, and unfortunately, the editor was blocked for 24 hours. I would say this issue is closed. Lawshoot! 04:20, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Additions
I removed the "former" word characterizing Max Hardcore's profession. While he is obviously unable to produce and perform in porn films at the moment, he has made it clear in statements that he intents to retain his business.

I also included some sourced details about the nature of his material, as it seemed useful to define more clearly what his work looks like (if anyone wonders, I'm not in the least aroused or interested in seeing his films, but it was essential to be more precise about the work of this gentleman, without turning this article into a shock piece). Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 20:58, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Revert this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Max_Hardcore&diff=551290453&oldid=540591336

Seems to be true. Is it? Didn't he plea, is that the same as convicted? felon? Is that enough? Since time is served should it not be there even if true (for history sake)? Is that in violation of some WP:BLP? I can't see that. comp.arch (talk) 00:20, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Prison number
Is it not a privacy/BLP violation to include his prisoner number in this story? I don't see the relevance, especially given that he's done his time, for including such information here. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 13:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:31, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Distributors
He worked for Zane, LBO and Metro. Maikel (talk) 19:54, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Allegations of assault on film
A couple of months ago a documentary was released that makes the case that many of Max Hardcore's films depict the genuine assault of his female "co-stars". In the documentary Max Hardcore discusses candidly his desire to push women past their breaking points after having initially put on a facade of being concerned for their well-being.

Some of this information is not particularly new, having been brought to light in a 2004 Channel 4 documentary. As per a guardian review of the 2001 film: "When Hardcore chokes [a new porn actress] she breaks down in tears, but he insists on her continuing, calling her a "fucking loser" and she is almost persuaded to continue until the documentary crew steps in for fear of being complicit in her rape." Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/jul/14/hardcore-abuse-of-women-in-porn

The new documentary provides even more harrowing evidence of Hardcore's abusive practices, however, showing footage of a 2005 film he shot with a woman who had never had sex on camera before. Max Hardcore initially appeared to reassure her that he would be "gentle" with her, before going on to violently throat fuck her until her body goes limp and she begins crying. She begs him to stop, to which he responds by saying "its a little too late for that don't you think?"; mocking her for crying; slapping her across the face and saying "you really are a stupid bitch aren't you?"; before finally telling her to "prepare to get ass-raped" and then penetrating her anally. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVr0jfVt7F0

This has recieved some coverage within the porn community. The podcast "Lustcast" run by a porn actor (or director? I'm not actually sure) has described Max Hardcore's work as "domestic violence porn basically. Horrible stuff. I hate that these guys found a loophole where it you film it and pay the girls, domestic abuse is ok." and has said "I don’t have an opinion on his art style. I just against him raping girls on film." Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCDgRJdKMw8 (see comments)

I think all of this stuff should be reflected in this article. Whether you personally agree that Max Hardcore is a rapist or not (I can understand that the article would need to avoid making positive claims about this to avoid falling foul of libel law), I think there is significant enough public discourse about this for it to warrant inclusion in the article. Total War Pharaoh Announcement Trailer Historical Accuracy Review (talk) 23:41, 25 May 2023 (UTC)