Talk:Max Verstappen/Archive 3

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 April 2022
Max Verstappen has just won the 2022 Laureus Sportman of the Year 2022. Can someone add this to his page and awards section? Pyrone89 (talk) 20:11, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:24, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * How about checking the news?
 * https://www.laureus.com/world-sports-awards
 * https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-verstappen-scoops-laureus-world-sportsman-of-the-year-award-for.7M1coUrpEjWU0hB9BFlGt9.html Pyrone89 (talk) 20:56, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
 * How about losing the aggressive attitude. Take a look at WP:BURDEN while your at it.06:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SSSB (talk • contribs)
 * Nothing aggressive about it.
 * You asked for sources when it is in the global news. It is not like I am making some grand claim. You literally are asking for something that anyone in charge of editing a page on the person should have known about.
 * I then provide you with multiple sources and somehow you take offense. That is on your problem. Pyrone89 (talk) 15:05, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * "How about checking the news?" comes across as aggresive. Just something to bear in mind. Also "You literally are asking for something that anyone in charge of editing a page on the person should have known about." is wrong on several counts. Firstly, no-one is "in charge". Secondly, the people who answer your request may not even follow Formula One or motorsport, they may just be dropping by, or they've seen that there is a request (on the special list) and responded. SSSB (talk) 19:01, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did you find it necessary to be snarky with the checking the news remark when you could have just provided the sources you should have provided in the first place? If you want something in the article, then provide a source for it instead of expecting others to go dig for sources for work you are asking them to do for you. If it's such global news, it shouldn't be difficult for you to include a source in your edit request. That and all the points SSSB raised, next edit request just provide the source right away. TylerBurden (talk) 23:39, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 19:03, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 May 2022
Please add a paragraph in the Personal life section about Verstappen's favorite clubs, PSV Eindhoven and FC Barcelona. Here is the reference (in Dutch). Klrfl  Talk!  12:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 16:57, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

wtf do the 1 and 2 superscripts mean
in F1 results table? 81.181.130.106 (talk) 13:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * They refer to his position in the sprint race, we need to update the key (haven't got time now) SSSB (talk) 13:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * We rather need a new key. Adding the sprint information is inappropriate since it is used in many articles that deals with content preceding the introduction of sprints.Tvx1 15:02, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's what I meant; update to a new key. I didn't mean: we need to update the existing key. SSSB (talk) 06:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 30 June 2022
Remove overlinks (Belgian-Dutch) from lede 2A01:36D:1200:4F8:D15F:707:91A9:4BE9 (talk) 07:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 10:01, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Safety car withdrawal Abu Dhabi 2021
Do we keep long standing sentence that the safety car was withdrawn too early (although the FIA report has cited various reasons for the confusion), or do you think that reference to the early withdrawal of the safety car should be omitted? Brought it to the talk page to avoid edit warring. Various opinions on the matter would be appreciated. Thanks Koppite1 (talk) 15:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It should be left out because it is a false characterisation of the events. No relaible source whatsoever claims that the safety car was simply called in “too early”. The FIA themselves have stated that one regulation was not applied in full, but followed that there are other relevant regulations as well. Moreover, the Abu Dhabi stewards acknowledged that the racing director has overriding authority with regards to, among others, the safety car. Lastly, this is Max Verstappen’s article. This is not the right place to detail the race director’s actions. Max is about the only party who didn’t do anything wrong that day.Tvx1 16:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If the sources do not support it then such an extraordinary claim shouldn't be in the article per WP:SYNTH, I also agree with the point that this is Verstappen's biography, not Michael Masi's or an article covering the specifics of the race (which both exist so this information would belong there, not in this article). TylerBurden (talk) 18:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement with Tvx1. In fact I would go further: To say that the safety car was called in one lap too early (in the way your edit does, Special:Diff/1096606471) is plain wrong. The safety car was withdrawn too early becuase and only because lapped cars overtook. Had no lapped cars overtaken, then the safety car was called in at the correct time. I think we can and should just replace The withdrawal of the safety car and the resumption of the race following the safety car period was met with controversy. Race director Michael Masi allowed only a certain number of lapped cars through, which after the race brought from the Mercedes team a protest and stated intention to appeal against the race result, arguing that all lapped cars should be allowed through, Red Bull counter argued that this was not specified by the wording of the regulations. The protest was rejected, although subsequent investigation by the FIA ruled that Masi had misinterpreted the rule and the wording of the rule was amended for the 2022 season to specify that "all" cars will unlap themselves (at the race director's discretion) rather than "any". Verstappen passed Hamilton at turn 5 of the final lap of the race to become the 34th Formula One World Drivers' Champion. with Verstappen passed Hamilton at turn 5 of the final lap of the race to become the 34th Formula One World Drivers' Champion. Mercedes protested the result on the grounds that the safety car procedure was not properly followed, which was not upheld. An investigation later ruled that the race director had unintentionally misinterpreted the rules. SSSB (talk) 19:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The last sentence of your suggested paragraph is simply wrong. This is the actual report of the investigation and the only relevant point it contains is point 31, which simply states that there are multiple interpretations possible of the relevant regulations. At no point does it state that Masi made an error or misinterpretation with regards to these regulations. The only action the report rules an error is him not having correctly identified all lapped cars. And all in all, I find the suggested text is still overly long for this article.Tvx1 22:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Then cut the final sentence. After we cut that sentence, I don't see how we can make it any shorter. SSSB (talk) 06:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Last sentence maybe include something along the lines of Masi making a human error, but acted in good faith.
 * Masi acted in good faith but made human error, FIA's Abu Dhabi GP report says | Reuters
 * FIA ANNOUNCES WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL DECISIONS | Federation Internationale de l'Automobile Koppite1 (talk) 09:08, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * But as explained repeatedly, the human error the FIA acknowledged is Masi not correctly identifying all lapped cars and not him calling the safety car at the wrong moment. They have not mentioned an error or misinterpretation with regards to the latter at all. And I can't see the point of mentioning the lapped cars error here in Max Verstappen's article, as even if all lapped cars had been correctly identified and let through Hamilton would still have been a sitting duck and the outcome would have been almost certainly the same. I really don't understand why such an effort is made here to try to discredit Verstappen's world championship win because of one incident near the end of the last race of a 22-race season, that featured many key moments that with a different outcome could have produced a different champion. All of this is largely undue.Tvx1 10:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If Masi unlapped all cars - the safety car would have still been out for lap 58 and the race would have finished under a safety car.
 * Masi made an error with the unlapping of the cars (the report states it was a human error)- this is supposed to be an encyclopedia-we can't omit pertinent facts because you think it will discredit Max's title. Koppite1 (talk) 11:03, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * But you are attempting to insert half-truths, because the reality is that Masi could have chosen not to let any of the lapped cars through, and Max could still have won the title. To state that Masi made a mistake without context is meaningless, and the only way to include the relevant context neutrally would be insert an entire paragraph of analysis and opinion of what could have happened in various scenarios, which is completely WP:UNDUE. The content that is relevant and can be presented both neutrally and with due emphasis relative to the rest of the biography is that he won the race, (and by extension the title), but it was protested. If readers want to know why it was protested, they can read the race report. SSSB (talk) 17:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * "But you are attempting to insert half-truths, because the reality is that Masi could have chosen not to let any of the lapped cars through, and Max could still have won the title"
 * If Masi had chosen to not let any of the lapped cars through, then there would be 5? cars in between Max and Lewis....so Max would have to negotiate 5 cars before getting anywhere near Lewis---all  in the space of  1 lap.  Most likely, in that scenario, Lewis is 2021 WDC champ
 * I'm not really sure what your point is. All i'm saying is that we can't conveniently omit that Masi made an error with the unlapping of the cars as the previous poster requested simply because it may discredit Max's title. I have no objection to including context. Koppite1 (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * No, you're wrong. There was no obligation to finish behind the safety car whatsoever even if all lapped cars had been correctly let through. It's not an automated procedure. This has been dissed out in full by all involved parties on the day of the race. The race director has the ultimate authority to decide when the safety car procedure ends. It would always have come in when it did. That's why mentioning this error here is undue. It made no difference whatsoever. I really don't know how we can this through to you, even though clearly no-one agrees with you. Mentioning this is also undue in the story of the entire season. It falsely implies that Verstappen only won the title because of that one event, when in reality to played out over an entire 22 race season which also had multiple key moments where Verstappen controversially lost important points which should have allowed him to clinch the title much earlier.Tvx1 19:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You are missing the point--if All cars were unlapped, this process would not have been completed before lap 58. In other words, there would not have been any laps left to go racing again. I'm not quite sure why this is so hard for you to grasp.
 * And i think with context, the fact that Masi made a mistake with this pivotal unlapping needs to be mentioned,. We are an encyclopedia. We shouldn't be omitting or hiding pertinent facts. Koppite1 (talk) 20:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you're telling untruths here. There was plenty of time for those just two extra cars to pass the safety car, the safety car to come in and the race to resume. Massi's made no difference whatsoever. No source whatsoever agrees it did. We're not hiding or omitting any pertinent facts here because these facts aren't pertinent at all. Only you think that they are and no one agrees with you. And as I questioned time and time again, why are you so obsessed with detailing this one moment so much, to try to downplay Verstappen's title, while not having any interest in detailing any of the other key moments where Verstappen controversially lost important points.Tvx1 12:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * It was not until well into lap 57 that the track was safe - Masi ordered some of the lapped cars through as soon as it was safe. So there was no way he could unlap all the cars BEFORE lap 58 and have a lap of racing on lap 58-there simply wasn't time to unlap the other 3 extra cars.
 * Anyway we are going round in circles. Masi's unlapping mistake is already included in the current text. That you think it reflects badly on Max's title isn't a good enough reason to remove it. Koppite1 (talk) 15:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason to remove is because it isn't presented neutrally, described accurately and the article describes it with an WP:DUE level of detail. It has nothing to do with "reflect[ing] badly on Max's title". SSSB (talk) 16:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * What on earth is that based on?? It's nothing but your personal conjecture. There were 7 corners in between the spot the last car unlapped and the pit entry. That's more than enough time and space for just three more cars to unlap. All they had to do is put their feet on the throttle at the same moment the other four lapped cars did. Nothing you pretend here is fact, let alone pertinent. It's your personal, clearly incorrect guesswork.Tvx1 20:09, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Tvx, I don't know about this "only you think that and no one agrees with you" stuff. I agree with him, as many people do. It was one of the most controversial episodes in F1 history, no matter who likes to think 'Nothing to see here, move on'. The other three lapped cars were back behind Verstappen, and I believe they would not have been unable to unlap themselves and get clear before the last lap started. You accept that there has to be a reason they were not allowed to unlap themselves, surely? So what do you think the reason was? The Safety Car did not pit at the end of the following lap, as the regulation stipulated, and as the FIA report admitted (Point 13). Saying "That's more than enough time and space for just three more cars to unlap. All they had to do is put their feet on the throttle at the same moment the other four lapped cars did." is nothing but your personal conjecture. Stick to the facts and try not to worry about Verstappen's title being devalued. That's not something you can change, any more than he can. If you can't agree on a wording which suits everyone's biases, then I suggest taking it to an RfC, so people who don't have a personal preference can lend a hand. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * So isn't the appropriate venue for this the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix? Or Michael Masi? What is relevant to Verstappen is that he won the race, and the championship, as well as how he did it. That is all covered in the article currently, with the controversy also mentioned without an undue amount of weight. It becomes fairly obvious what the intentions here are when trying to put even more detail into that when the appropriate venues for it exist. TylerBurden (talk) 06:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason is very clear,, the FIA acknowledges it in their report. The remaining three cars were never identified by Masi as being lapped because of human error. He was thus fully in the belief that he had allowed all lapped cars through. As for the “people agreeing”, I was only referring to people in this discussion and editing the section of the article. And prior to your contribution, no-one agreed with them here. It was onevsall. But even if we use your edition, I have not seen any source demonstrating the “fact” that Verstappen only won the title because not all lapped cars unlapped. And “ The other three lapped cars were back behind Verstappen, and I believe they would not have been unable to unlap themselves and get clear before the last lap started.”, is just as much personal conjecture. Why don’t you stick to the facts yourself?Tvx1 08:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * So isn't the appropriate venue for this the 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix? Or Michael Masi? What is relevant to Verstappen is that he won the race, and the championship, as well as how he did it. That is all covered in the article currently, with the controversy also mentioned without an undue amount of weight. It becomes fairly obvious what the intentions here are when trying to put even more detail into that when the appropriate venues for it exist. TylerBurden (talk) 06:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason is very clear,, the FIA acknowledges it in their report. The remaining three cars were never identified by Masi as being lapped because of human error. He was thus fully in the belief that he had allowed all lapped cars through. As for the “people agreeing”, I was only referring to people in this discussion and editing the section of the article. And prior to your contribution, no-one agreed with them here. It was onevsall. But even if we use your edition, I have not seen any source demonstrating the “fact” that Verstappen only won the title because not all lapped cars unlapped. And “ The other three lapped cars were back behind Verstappen, and I believe they would not have been unable to unlap themselves and get clear before the last lap started.”, is just as much personal conjecture. Why don’t you stick to the facts yourself?Tvx1 08:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

So for the avoidance of doubt, Tvx, you believe the Race Director made an error, because he did not know the order of cars in the race he was directing? He believed Ricciardo, Stroll and... checks notes... Schumacher were on the lead lap, in third, fourth and fifth? Given the experience you have in watching F1, can you confirm you consider that credible? The FIA is not a reliable source in terms of the reasoning behind the misapplication of the unlapping procedure, as there is a conflict of interest in investigating your own employee, looking for wrongdoing that would incriminate the organisation. FIA sources shouldn't even be here with regard to that element. I don't know what you mean by "edition" – I do not edit this article (or those of other current drivers) except to remove vandalism. I have already stated that my belief that the other three lapped cars would not have had time to unlap themselves by the end of the lap was exactly that – my belief, after watching F1 for over forty years. I don't edit articles associated with this "race" because Wikipedia is bound to follow the official line. It turns a blind eye when the official line is not credible, particularly when it is defended vigorously. I find it concerning that the entirely credible theory that Verstappen only won the race because the Safety Car and unlapping procedure was not followed correctly is considered "undue weight". I repeat my suggestion that independent, non-F1 editors are consulted in order to create a non-biased viewpoint here, as well as at the other pertinent articles. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, it's my belief after having been following F1 closely for a very similar time period as you that it was easily possible for just three more cars to unlap and get clear in time by just accelerating at the same time as the cars that unlapped at the unlapping signal. There is no factual evidence the stance of you two is based on, only "because we think so's". There were seven more corners to negotiate before the pit lane. Just look at how far clear the unlapped cars got using just those eight corners of the final sector. As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to delve too deep into it. We have always considered the FIA a reputable source and there is no reason to stop doing so. It is not our job to synthesize the events ourselves and write in our articles what we think the FIA should be concluded. That would violate almost every pillar of Wikipedia. And lastly yes, I find it credible that a human being who had to resolve multiple issues within the space of seconds, while being bullied over the radio by hysterical team manager human beings, mishandled a manual procedure that normally takes some time and double-checking to complete. And the theory that Verstappen only won the race "because the Safety Car and unlapping procedure was not followed correctly" is not that very credible since that procedure was not the only decisive factor. For instance, Mercedes and Hamilton missed the opportunity to pit as well when the safety car came out, which would have given them a good chance to hold on to the win.Tvx1 15:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Why would they have accelerated at the same time? They have to wait until the car ahead has gone, bearing in mind none of them is in any particular hurry. In any traffic situation, a queue of cars does not all accelerate simultaneously. Schumacher had four spread-out cars to pass in seven corners, his pace regulated by the other lapped runners ahead of him as well as having no need to rush himself, and he had to get well clear of Hamilton, all before the start-finish line. It is absolutely absurd to believe that was "easily possible". I find it strange that your beliefs are facts, yet those beliefs with which you do not agree, are "we think sos". The FIA is a reliable source, but not when investigating itself. That should be self-evident, and I am surprised FIA sources have been permitted in these articles. I find the idea risible that anyone in the Race Director's position would have so little understanding of the race order, which had been constant for some laps, regardless of any pressures from anywhere else, that he didn't even know which cars were on which lap. Literally all he had to do if he was confused, was to look at the graphics that the whole world could see at the same time. Or maybe he considered it perfectly regular that Ricciardo and Stroll had suddenly appeared ahead of third-place man Sainz, each gaining nine places out of nowhere. Have you considered that Mercedes did not pit Hamilton because they knew he would have won if the Race Director had simply followed the rules? Had Hamilton pitted, Verstappen would not have done so, taken the lead and the race would have ended under the Safety Car, as it should have done. I see you have no intention of seeking outside assistance to resolve this; I assume because your beliefs are facts and contrary beliefs are merely opinions. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * This is getting ridculous. The simple fact is that any variations of "If Masi had applied the rules as intended..." are conjecture. Because had Masi choosen between letting all cars through or none, nobody has anyway of knowing what he would have done. Had Masi not let any cars unlap themsleves, it is possible (in theory) for Verstappen to have overtaken Hamilton (if lapped cars were complient). I wouldn't even be surprised if Masi had thrown a red flag for the sole purpose to allow racing to allow a final lap show down on equal terms. So I don't understand why this discussion keeps delving into the ifs and buts of the race direction and possible outcomes. There are a few relevant facts here:
 * Hamilton was confortable leading before the SC
 * Verstappen overtook Hamilton at the SC restart
 * The result was protested on the grounds that the SC procedure was not suffiecently followed
 * The protest was rejected.
 * Other details such as blame/fault, alternative outcomes, can not be realistically be presented here in both a neutral and due manner, becuase of the complexity, depth and variaty of arguments. But if one of you has a suggestion, I'll be glad to hear it. SSSB (talk) 12:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 9 July 2022
Add current person template, as he is participating in the Austrian GP} 62.165.249.106 (talk) 09:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌ What do you mean by "current person template"? DH85868993 (talk) 09:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * , I can only assume they mean Current person. The only information that rapidly changes for this article is the stats, and I therefore don't think such a template is appropriate here. SSSB (talk) 12:18, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, I wasn't aware of that template. I agree that it's not appropriate here. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 12:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 August 2022
Change: “ teammate Ricciardo pressed home Red Bull's advantage at the track by taking pole position and the race win.” As Ricciardo did not win the race, he came second due to a bad pitstop. 90.197.117.151 (talk) 00:30, 7 August 2022 (UTC)


 * I think you may be mixing up your years. Ricciardo did win the 2018 Monaco Grand Prix, which is the race under discussion in that paragraph. Pyrop  e  00:46, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2022
He is been appointed as officer of the order of Orange-Nassau, a civil dutch merit, ‘OON’ i think it is.90.162.40.73 (talk) 11:16, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:22, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Category:Recipients of the Order of Orange-Nassau
Requesting the following category to be added to the article since this is now official. 62.255.216.34 (talk) 11:31, 1 September 2022 (UTC)


 * https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/130857/verstappen-appointed-officer-in-the-order-of-orange-nassau.html
 * https://grandprixradio.nl/updates/max-verstappen-officier-in-orde-van-oranje-nassau
 * https://nos.nl/artikel/2442854-verstappen-onderscheiden-tot-officier-in-de-orde-van-oranje-nassau 62.255.216.34 (talk) 11:33, 1 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment - he's listed in Category:Officers of the Order of Orange-Nassau. Mjroots (talk) 09:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wrong number of wins
Infobox says 29 wins as of the 2022 Dutch Grand Prix, but it`s 30 in reality. 80.187.119.67 (talk) 15:41, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * That’s generated through a template that still needs to be updated for today’s race.Tvx1 16:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * If it didn't have to be edited through a complicated template, it would have been done hours ago. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:43, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I seriously doubt that. Editors usually just over type the template. In any case, the time saved through the template easily out weighs the small time delay. SSSB (talk) 06:05, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not a complicated template. It's nothing but a basic numbers database really and these just need to be changed every race weekend. Moreover, this particle template, F1stat, has been in use for 10 years. That was even before I became a registered editor. It was when you were still a positive regular editor, so it surprises that you suddenly complain here about it after ten years of its usage.
 * I also agree with . One edit of a simple template is much less time-consuming than having to update the 60ish articles it's used in one by one.Tvx1 13:15, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I've always complained about it, if you'd ever taken any notice. I used to update every driver article within about 10 minutes of the end of each race. Someone else covered the team and season articles. Since the template was introduced, it's sporadic, slow, exclusive and occasionally inaccurate. It was a "solution" to a problem that didn't exist. I'm still a positive regular editor; I just refuse to waste my time in incessant debates with people who like arguing more than editing. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:00, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Until the end of 2020, I used to ensure that F1stat was updated within 15 minutes of the end of each race. But I stopped doing that because: But having had a break for 1.5 years, I'm happy to go back to ensuring F1stat is updated within 15 minutes after each race (but now I'll enjoy the end of the race and then worry about the order of the top 10). I'll leave updating F1R2022 to others, and F1cstat can be updated in "slow time" (sometimes it isn't updated until 2 days after the race and nobody seems to notice/care). DH85868993 (talk) 23:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * with the advent of F1cstat and F1R2020, I felt obliged to ensure that those templates were updated too and it was starting to get a bit onerous (I realise that extra work was self-inflicted), and
 * I found that for the last 5 laps of every race I was concentrating on the order of the top 10 (so I could start updating the templates immediately after the race) rather than enjoying the on-track action.

I don't see evidence of yourself being a good, positive editor, however. Certainly not with regard to this project. All you have been doing here lately is criticizing us and our editorial practices. A good, positive editor would have been collaborative and actually made the requested update themself instead of venting frustration. Moreover, it is clear to me that you still don't even have a clue what you're talking about. The infobox figures are generated through a stats template that was introduced ten years ago and you don't appear to have taken part in the discussion approving it, nor can I find any participation from you in any subsequent archived discussion regarding that particular template. I have certainly taken notice of your recent complaints, but they were regarding the much more recent F1RXXXX templates intended for result matrices. And if YOU'd noticed, I have expressed my thoughts its usage can be simplified. It's nice that you were able to update all driver's articles in 10 minutes, but in total there are over 100 articles that need to be updated after every race and if no two volunteers are available simultaneously, that takes well over half an hour to do. The templates can actually reduce that to a handful of minutes because only a handful of updates are left required. The issue last week was not a template being "sporadic, slow, exclusive and occasionally incaccurate" (almost all of which is false), but a volunteer just not having the time at the end of the race. You simply took a wild, misdirected shot here. We are all volunteers dedicating whatever free time we can spare to this project, so I'd be nice to show some respect for that.

, don't let yourself be bullied into imposing any deadline. Wikipedia just doesn't have them. There is no obligation for these templates to be updated within fifteen minutes on event. We all immensely appreciate the immense efforts you put into this project.

On a related note, couldn't F1stat and F1cstat simply be merged. Surely it should be able to handle that small amount of aditional parameters and the 30 or so articles it is transcluded into.Tvx1 10:56, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Just be extremely careful about where you're going with comments like that. Refresh your memory regarding WP:NPA because in my opinion you're already over the line. That guideline prevents me from detailing just what I think of what's happened to this project since certain editors became involved. Debates have become utterly intractable and impossible to resolve. I cannot make the required update because I don't understand how to do it. Be very careful how you address that. Rest assured, if the template(s) were effective, you wouldn't get comments like the one from the OP. Criticising your editorial practices is acceptable; it's about time you understood that, and accept when practices are dysfunctional. Telling me I don't have a clue what I'm talking about is a personal attack. Consider striking that comment. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:04, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I won't strike anything because it's a simple truth. Let egos out of this, because that is not going to lead us anywhere. You were complaining about the wrong thing. And it seems you still don't understand what the actual problem was. The "problem" was not a template, but the regular editor who normally takes care of updates lacking time last Sunday. That sort of thing happens on a volunteer project. Meanwhile, the updates for the Italian Grand Prix have been executed in a more than acceptable timeframe. As for the perceived difficulty in using templates like F1R2022, I will admit that the docs could actually do a better job of explaining how to use the template., is an example of how a doc is properly used to explain how to use a template or a module.Tvx1 15:46, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I see, so I "don't have a clue" but it's not a personal attack because it's "a simple truth". That will get you nowhere on the admin boards, to which you are certainly no stranger. I raised an issue with these templates and you have made it an ad hominem personal attack. I could give you a "simple truth" or two, if you'd like. Don't patronise me by trying to tell me this is a volunteer project; I've been here longer than you have. And let me tell you, I have never been blocked for Disruptive editing: Repeated wikilawyering/deliberate misinterpretation of policy to the point of threatening/harassing other editors. That's the way you operate and have always operated, and that is a simple truth. I don't edit F1 articles any more because you and one or two others removed all the enjoyment from it with behaviour like that which got you blocked. Crack on and run it the way you want. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:04, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2022
Under F1 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix controversy

Michael Masi didn't let the safety car complete another lap as per the sporting regulations.

(This was confirmed by FIA so should be included) 2A00:23C6:F20F:E701:6D4A:2F05:A2DE:2FA2 (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 October 2022
Max is now a two time world champion 80.44.115.51 (talk) 08:19, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ❌, for the time being. The percentage of points awarded at Japan still needs to be clarified.Tvx1 08:24, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It has been confirmed by the FIA. Bamiel1 (talk) 08:33, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅, the race was not ended prematurely with a red flag, but at full time by the checkered flag. Full points awarded.Tvx1 08:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2022
He has the nationality of both The Netherlands and Belgium. Not only The Netherlands Artibe (talk) 03:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Not done. It says so in the lead. In the infobox the nationality is under "Formula One World Championship career", and the article says that he uses the Dutch flag whilst racing. -- Mvqr (talk) 10:46, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 October 2022
In subsection Max Verstappen add this line in the table: Aparecidas (talk) 23:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Most championship points in a season
 * 416 (ongoing)
 * 2022 Mexico City Grand Prix
 * ✅ (with slight variations from the requested text). DH85868993 (talk) 00:55, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Add Formula One driver records: Most wins before first pole position
Add Formula One driver records: Most wins before first pole position 93.117.234.222 (talk) 15:35, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  NASCARfan0548  ↗  15:53, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Please, that’s not a record in any way. Only a trivial achievement.Tvx1 19:43, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

Early Racing Car career
Have just been checking on Youtube and it seems that he was in a racing car a little early November 13, 2013:

And there's many more as well.

Add Formula one driver records:
Largest points deficit overturned to become champion – 46 (2022)

Wins from the most different grid slots in a year – 7 (2022)

Most wins in a season outside pole position – 9 (2022)

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the-f1-records-verstappen-and-red-bull-broke-in-2022/10403497/ 93.117.234.222 (talk) 11:18, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Top of page image update
I have updated the top of page image to a more recent one thanks to Wastrick for the image--MKL123 (talk) 16:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Revert. It would be nice if we actually can see Verstappen instead of his car.Lobo151 (talk) 17:11, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree please revert back. MKL123 (talk) 17:21, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * No, this article is about Max Verstappen so it would be nice if we actually see him in the infobox photo.Lobo151 (talk) 17:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Please stop changing the main photo. For the article we want a clear close up photo.Lobo151 (talk) 17:38, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I found a slightly more recent close up pic from 2019 pre season testing provided by Marc Alvarado . Hope this pleases you more. MKL123 (talk) 17:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * The current one is from a far better quality than that one. There is no need to change.Lobo151 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I would dispute that that. MKL123 (talk) 17:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Then please explain. The photo is clearly cropped so why is it better?Lobo151 (talk) 18:19, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I have uploaded another image from Wikimedia commons . The image though cropped shows Verstappen''s face relatively well. Verstappen has aed quite a bit facially since the 2017 image previously used. The image is courtesy of nabtifal MKL123 (talk) 11:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Again the photo is of a lower quality and no improvement of the current one.Lobo151 (talk) 12:53, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with Lobo, his appearance hasn't really changed enough to abandon a good quality image for a more recent one of poorer quality. TylerBurden (talk) 21:00, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2023
We can add the officially unofficial subreddit for Max Verstappen as external source https://www.reddit.com/r/MaxVerstappenRacing/ Tixoxoxo (talk) 16:13, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Read WP:ELNO  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  16:28, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2023
Under the section 2021 Championship. There is a statement of "The protest was rejected, although subsequent investigation by the FIA ruled that Masi had misinterpreted the rule and the wording of the rule was amended for the 2022 season to specify that "all" cars will unlap themselves (at the race director's discretion) rather than "any"."

The phrase "FIA ruled that Masi had misinterpreted the rule" Should be removed as there was no source nor any finding that the rule was misinterpreted. It was instead stated that the rule could be interpreted multiple ways and was thus changed to have a defined interpretation. Kartracer6 (talk) 13:33, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. Throast  { { ping }} me! (talk &#124; contribs) 14:27, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Parents
As a matter of basic etiquette, it would be appropriate to put both his parents names, not just the father. 2001:7E8:F621:8901:B1AF:829E:81C7:EDCA (talk) 14:05, 22 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Her name is in the first sentence of the personal life section. Tvx1 14:52, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

"Crashtappen" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crashtappen&redirect=no Crashtappen] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. TartarTorte 19:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

"Crashstappen" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crashstappen&redirect=no Crashstappen] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. TartarTorte 19:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2023
109.204.255.233 (talk) 22:27, 5 September 2023 (UTC) Write that max verstappen is the only person who have on 10 straight race and by Toto Wolff that shit is wikipedia stuff
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2023
Max Verstappen equalled the record for most consecutive top 2 finishes (2022 Abu Dhabi GP - 2023 Italian GP) and so that should be put on the record thing. The record is shared with Schumacher. Investigatetower7 (talk) 13:23, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  13:25, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

Championships
Max is listed as having won the 2023 championship. He has not won it yet. 2603:7081:7500:A98:FCFD:6BE2:2C94:9458 (talk) 15:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2023
Amount of Formula 1 Championships to 3 Corrector876677 (talk) 18:17, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 03:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Add OOG alongside his name
Should we add the Order of Orange-Nassau to his name? just like Lewis has MBE Elmarkus (talk) 03:16, 9 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes :) 86.18.216.81 (talk) 11:12, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Titles, prefixes, or post-nominals are not used in the Netherlands, as mentioned on the page of the Order of Orange-Nassau Faabvk (talk) 21:04, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Equalled the record for most wins from pole position in a season
Verstappen equalled the record of most wins from pole position in a season at the 2023 japanese GP, so that should be put under the records thing ... He shares the record with sebastian Vettel and Nigel Mansell 93.160.12.199 (talk) 19:44, 24 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, there should be a "most wins from pole position" category included, as it is on the list of formula one driving records wikipedia page. AstralNomad (talk) 18:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * (single season, obviously) AstralNomad (talk) 18:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Listed on Most wins from pole position in a season, so added to the records section.LRataplan (talk) 02:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2023
Verstappen equalled the record for most hat tricks in a season (5) at the 2023 Qatar GP so that should be put under the record thing. The record is shared with Schumacher. There's a source for it here https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/divers/detail-max-verstappen--hattrick.aspx

He also equalled the record for most races left in a season when becoming world champion (6). This record is also shared with Schumacher and should also be put under the record tab thing. Here's a source https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.facts-and-stats-rookie-piastri-claims-first-f1-win-of-any-kind-in-qatar.1faYZYwjJHzdwVggJG212l.html Investigatetower7 (talk) 00:09, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Philroc  (talk) 08:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Starting sentence with years of championship
The start of the article with "... and the 2021, 2022, and 2023 Formula One World Champion." seems a bit clunky to me. Would it perhaps be better to say something like "the current 3-time Formula One World Champion" or just include the 2023 title and leave the rest for the infobox? Keithshep (talk) 00:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Here is a possible better version: MV is a Belgian and Dutch racing driver competing under the Dutch flag in Formula One with Red Bull Racing, and the current Formula One World Champion, having won the 2021, 2022, and 2023 Championships. Aparecidas (talk) 21:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not very different is it? Do we really need to state each specific year. Why not write "is a three-times world champion" or "triple world champion", like we do with Sir Jackie Stewart.Tvx1 21:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes however for the other 3-times champions the years are specified:
 * Ayrton Senna was a Brazilian racing driver who won the Formula One World Drivers' Championship in 1988, 1990, and 1991.
 * Nelson Piquet is a Brazilian retired racing driver and businessman who won the World Drivers' Championship three times in the years 1981, 1983 and 1987.
 * Sir John Arthur Brabham was an Australian racing driver who was Formula One World Champion in 1959, 1960, and 1966.
 * Niki Lauda was an Austrian Formula One driver and aviation entrepreneur. He was a three-time Formula One World Drivers' Champion, winning in 1975, 1977 and 1984 (...)
 * Years are not specified for drivers with more than 3 championships. Aparecidas (talk) 22:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I feel three-times world champion should be sufficient for all. Tvx1 16:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * If for all other other 3-times world champions the years are specified. Then it should be specified here also. I don't agree that only three-times world champion is sufficient. What is the issue with the years being mentioned in the intro? It is the most notable. Lobo151 (talk) 03:29, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @DualSkream Please discuss here, before deleting any information. Lobo151 (talk) 03:34, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As I pointed out already, that is not true. Why are the years so important to put in the lead? Once we get to three or more titles that just becomes clumsy and unwieldy. The lead should summarise the most important facts of the article and that is that he is a triple world champion, not when he won those titles. Tvx1 08:25, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * But when you remove the years one of the most important fact, that he is the current World champion, will be lost. So that should be mentioned in the lead. So something like this?
 * "is a Belgian and Dutch racing driver. A three-time and current Formula One World Drivers' Champion. Verstappen competes under the Dutch flag in Formula One with Red Bull Racing" Lobo151 (talk) 09:03, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Good point, that would work.Tvx1 09:01, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Max was born in Belgium, yet he's listed as Dutch-Belgian.
This should probably be fixed ;) 31.50.88.113 (talk) 11:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Not sure what you mean; in the opening paragraph he is stated to be Belgian-Dutch. Pyrop  e  20:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Max has both the Dutch and Belgian nationality ( On his 18th birthday, he officially filed for Dutch citizenship but technically, he has had both nationalities since birth However, he races under the Dutch flag exclusively. In my opinion, that makes him a Dutch driver who also happens to have some Belgian paperwork but I disengaged from that discussion a long time ago. Dutch-Belgian it is.
 * As for the place of birth: both The Netherlands and Belgium have ius sanguinis, meaning the nationality of the parents decides the nationality of the child. Verstappen has a Dutch father and a Belgian mother. In countries like the USA, the rule is ius solis, meaning that being born in that country gets you that nationality. This does not apply to Max. LRataplan (talk) 02:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Using the normal convention of 'adjective-substantive' (e.g. Irish-American) the current form of words does conform to the "Dutch driver who also happens to have some Belgian paperwork" model. No? Pyrop  e  19:24, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It’s a bit more complicated than that. Belgium uses both jus sangiunis and jus soli. Tvx1 10:53, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Max Verstappen identifies as Dutch, he has stated in several publications. Therefore calling him Dutch-Belgian would seem more appropriate to me than the current 'Belgian and Dutch'. The latter seems to suggest he is more Belgian than Dutch, which is not the case. Similarly, Lando Norris is called 'British and Belgian', which does justice to the fact that Norris identifies more as a Briton than as a Belgian citizen. Jeroen1961 (talk) 19:08, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The order in which nationalities appear in an article has nothing to do with the personal order of importance they have for the subject. Your just reading to much into things. Tvx1 08:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case, what is the order supposed to be based on? It clearly isn't alfabetical, nor importance as you say. At the moment of speaking, Max does not even have a Belgian passport and hasn't for multiple years (as he wouldn't be allowed to under Dutch law, and as far as I know neither would he under Belgian law). Ouroboros777 (talk) 19:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? B comes ahead of D in the Latin alphabet that our language uses, so this looks very much alphabetical to me. And why on earth would he not be allowed to have a Belgian passport?? He was born and declared in Belgium to a Belgian parent. He has every right to their passport, that’s how birth right works. Dutch nationality law doesn’t even matter because that has no saying about the issuing of Belgian passport. And this isn’t even relevant, because holding a valid travel document booklet is not required to have that nationality. Looks like you actually don’t know those laws that well.Tvx1 21:26, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Lando Norris is stated to be British and Belgian, as far as I know E comes ahead of R in that same alphabet that you are talking about, so if it is alphabetical, that should list Belgian first as well.
 * According to Dutch law, if you get Dutch nationality you must relinquish your old nationality if that is possible. Birth right might change that normally, but he requested Dutch nationality aged 18, as is stated here https://www.nu.nl/formule-1/6221291/belg-verstappen-vroeg-direct-toen-hij-achttien-jaar-werd-nederlands-paspoort-aan.html. In a case like that (i.e. a case where he didn't have both to start with), he would be forced to give up his Belgian nationality in order to get the Dutch equivalent. As Belgian law lets him (some countries don't allow you to relinquish your nationality), he is very unlikely to still have Belgian nationality. Ouroboros777 (talk) 19:31, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * But this isn’t a case of not having both to start with. He WAS quite patently born with both, because his parents each have one of his nationalities and the legal status of their relationship when he was born meant he automatically received these two nationalities. He quite patently was already Dutch prior to turning eightteen, because he already raced in F1 under that nationality when he was seventeen. So what he acquired when he was eightteen was most definitely NOT a nationality. Acquiring a passport≠acquiring a nationality.A passport is nothing but a travel document. It’s not a requisite for having a nationaility. Not in his countries at least. I myself don’t have a valid passport at this time, yet a very much still have my nationality and my citizenship. This is because I live in the EU and you only need a passport if you leave that EU, which I rarely do. I think I had to acquire a passport three seperate times already during my life, but I didn’t acquire that nationality each time. There is no legal reason whatsoever why Verstappen wouldn’t be Belgian anymore. Heck, the source you cited actually refers to his dual nationalities multiple times and quotes him directly stating how happy he is with both of his nationalities.Tvx1 16:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think Belgian-Dutch would be the most accurate way to describe him. It's true he passes as both Belgian and Dutch, however Max himself has said he feels more Dutch as he grew up around Dutch people and went to school in the Netherlands, and living near the border, he only came back to his home in Belgium to sleep. Similar to how a person with Chinese parents born and raised in San Francisco would be Chinese American, Max Verstappen is Belgian-Dutch. The first person is American, and Max is Dutch, but the first descriptor provides clarity on what kind of Dutch/American/etc. person you are. Verstappen is Dutch - Belgian Dutch to be exact. Therefore, I propose the opening to his article be reverted back to Belgian-Dutch. SpotifyGreaterThanAppleMusic (talk) 22:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2024
Can Max‘s photograph please be updated to something from 2024? The photo currently being used on his profile is from 2017 and very outdated. 2A02:C7C:2F39:1000:E81F:ADF9:5BFD:FE20 (talk) 10:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Not done: Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to Files For Upload. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used. PianoDan (talk) 20:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024
To add on to the '2024 season' under the Formula One career section:

Change this:

2024 season Verstappen began the 2024 season with his fifth career grand slam at the Bahrain Grand Prix and followed this with another pole and victory at the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. He took pole again at the Australian Grand Prix but was forced into retirement with a brake fire, ending his nine-race winning streak and marking his first retirement in two years.[255]

To this:

2024 season Verstappen began the 2024 season with his fifth career grand slam at the Bahrain Grand Prix and followed this with another pole and victory at the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. He took pole again at the Australian Grand Prix but was forced into retirement with a brake fire, ending his nine-race winning streak and marking his first retirement in two years. Verstappen continued to dominate at the next race, the Japanese Grand Prix, with a pole and victory. 116.14.76.213 (talk) 07:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Awhellnawr123214 (talk) 04:42, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Awhellnawr123214 (talk) 04:44, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Why update photo?
This one is from 2017 109.38.134.1 (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)