Talk:Mayaguez incident

Recent Edits Dispute regarding last man.
The article currently states:


 * "At 20:00 Knife 51 landed and began loading in the dark and under fire. Having loaded everyone save for themselves, Captain Davis and Gunnery Sergeant McNemar combed the beach looking for stragglers. Knife 51 Pararescueman Technical Sergeant Wayne Fisk was at the end of the ramp when two more Marines stumbled out of the darkness. Fisk asked Davis if all his men were aboard and he confirmed they were, and Fisk combed the beach one last time for stragglers. Finding none, he leaped onto the hovering CH-53 and at 20:10 Knife 51 left Koh Tang for the Coral Sea."

However, this is incorrect as per the works listed below:


 * Koh Tang / Mayaguez Veterans Association and their upload of Greg Wilson's account of the events on Koh Tang
 * The 'The Last Boarding Party: The USMC and the SS Mayaguez, 1975,' by Clayton K. S. Chun.
 * Guilmartin, John F. 1995. A very short war the Mayaguez and the Battle of Koh Tang. College Station: Texas A&M University Press.


 * A further work worthy of note is: 'Monograph 5: Fourteen Hours at Koh Tang 29th December, 1975' prepared by Captain Thomas D. Des Brisay for General Louis L. Wilson, Jr. - Reviewed by Headquarters Pacific (USAF).

And so, this paragraph should read:


 * "At 20:00 Knife 51 landed and began loading in the dark and under fire. Having loaded everyone save for himself, Knife 51 Pararescueman Technical Sergeant Wayne Fisk combed the beach looking for stragglers until he stumbled upon two marines providing covering fire for Knife 51. Immediately, Fisk escorts the marines back to Knife 51". Fisk asked Davis if all his men were aboard and he confirmed they were. Fisk leaped onto the hovering CH-53 and at 20:10 Knife 51 left Koh Tang for the Coral Sea''.

As only Technical Sergeant Wayne Fisk departed Knife 51 in search of any marines left behind, not Captain Davis and Gunnery Sergeant McNemar

EDJT840 (talk) 13:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

cc User:Mztourist — Preceding unsigned comment added by EDJT840 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

The current wording comes from Ralph Wetterhahn's book and the official USMC history, which I regard as more reliable sources than the two books that EDJT840 has cited. Mztourist (talk) 02:51, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

And, as it stands, Ralph Wetterhahn's book is mistaken. As per the sources above (one of which is the official stance of the United States Air Force) and another, from the very Marines themselves. I standby the requested change in the interest of historical accuracy.

The United States Air Force Historical Support Division equally, with a series of primary and secondary sources only note that 'Fisk' departed from the helicopter. EDJT840 (talk) 09:46, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Furthermore, Guilmartin's account has received praise for its accuracy regarding the helicopter borne assault on Koh Tang. His section covering this is in keeping with Wise's and Reminick's. EDJT840 (talk) 09:53, 28 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Who says Guilmartin's account has received praise for its accuracy? Unlike Wetterhahn he didn't interview the Khmer Rouge and gave no account of the 3 Marines left behind. Mztourist (talk) 11:57, 28 May 2022 (UTC)


 * My apologies on this late reply Mztourist. Guilmartin's work, despite its lack of mention of those three marines left behind, is applauded by Siegel, Meiliniger, and Charles D. Brown (the first two being academic/historians, the latter a member of the Koh Tang / Mayaguez Veterans Association). Guilmartin's, and others' works differ from the account listed on Wikipedia. Guilmartin's account of the entire thing is as follows (pardon my lack of references, you can see his via his work):


 * - The Marines pullback to a horseshoe, and become stagnant. Davis and McNemar address this by moving along the perimeter, forcing the marines to move towards Knife 51.
 * - As they did, Fisk departs with permission from Brimm.
 * - Fisk conducted an orderly withdrawal, following Davis and McNemar aboard Knife 51.
 * - Fisk again requests permission to deplane, as he leaves, two marines barge past onto Knife 51.
 * - Fisk locates Davis aboard Knife 51, asking if all were aboard; Davis says yes.
 * - Fisk once again asks for permission to decamp, as he does so, McNemar follows suit.
 * - Fisk runs back towards Knife 51, where 'seeing him coming, NcNemar jumped back aboard' (and so, McNemar did not follow him, nor did Davis). [Further supported by DCS Plans and Operations, HQ PACAF, in Assault on Koh Tang, p. 12].


 * Admittedly, this differs from my proposed edit, as my other supporting sources (listed above) propose that Fisk found the marines, instead of them barging past.


 * Also, Ralph Wetterhahn's work does not support the current paragraph on the Wikipedia page, instead, agrees entirely with Guilmartins account (save for a few additional details), see pp. 246.247.EDJT840 (talk) 12:55, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't be bothered debating this any further. Mztourist (talk) 13:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)