Talk:Maynard James Keenan/Archive 3

Noise Pop film festival
"One of them being The Heart is a Drum Machine, a documentary exploring why humans make and listen to music. It features MTV’s Kurt Loder, Maynard James Keenan of Tool, Elijah Wood and Jason Schwartzman. Keenan can also be found onscreen in another documentary, Blood into Wine, about his and winemaking partner Eric Glomski’s experience running a vineyard in the Arizona desert."

I don't have time to update it now, so I'll drop it here for someone else or I'll come back and do it another day. Lara 15:21, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Threw something together with the primary source as the link above looked suspect; feel free to rewrite/revise/butcher my precious referencing style...  Skomorokh   17:05, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Maynard talks on Tool hiatus
From Blabbermouth:
 * Keenan admitted in a recent interview that he gets restless at tool's slower pace of doing things. "I can't sit still, so when those guys hesitate, it takes us so long to do stuff, and it's like a snake eating its own tail situation, 'cause then I get distracted and I go off and do a thing, and then I get blamed for not being around to do the (TOOL) thing," he said. "But nothing was getting done when I was standing there, so I got bored and left. It's just an endless cycle."

Dropping it here until later. No time to write it in now. If someone else has time, feel free; otherwise, I'll do it this weekend. Lara 14:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Related to Pepper Keenan?
I thought Pepper Keenan is Maynard James Keenan's brother.--4.242.174.236 (talk) 07:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Maynard is an only child. Lara  18:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Can someone authorized change the letters, please.
Simple error, but it says Keenan was "ranked 21th in Hit Parader's Top 100..." -- I do believe it's 21st, not "21th". Twenty-first, as opposed to twenty-one-th... The page is protected so I can't do it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.216.136 (talk) 11:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not protected, and the editor who added the line about Hit Parader was unregistered. I've fixed it nonetheless, and thank you for bringing this to public attention. Regards,  Skomorokh   11:53, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Early Life
It says in the Early Life section that he was born in 1964, and his parents were divorced in 68. So he was 4 when this happened. It goes on to say he only saw his father once a year for the next 12 years. But the next paragraph says that at age 11 his mother had an aneurysm and 2 years later he went to live with his dad (so he would have been 12/13).

13-4=9 years...

I'm assuming it should read that he only saw his father once a year UNTIL he was 12 years old?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.26.227 (talk) 20:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * You may be correct. I'll go back through sources and find the error. Thanks for bringing this up! Lara  02:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, all this information is from one source. In reading through it again, I don't see where it specifies "2 years later". It says "for his high school years". I or another editor may have inaccurately (and inappropriately) synthesized that to be around age 13, the age when most start high school. I'm not sure. Regardless, I've changed the article to read "a few years later", as this wording is supported by the source and isn't mathematically impossible. Again, it's good you caught that. Thanks for pointing it out. Lara  03:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Associated acts
An IP user just added Rage Against The Machine under the header Associated acts in the infobox. I doubt whether Keenan singing a few backing vocals on this band's first album justifies their inclusion in this list, but others may disagree. Regards. --Francesco Malipiero (talk) 20:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Why "C is for.." and not Opiate?
Why is Opiate omitted from the discography for "not being a full studio album" and yet "C is for..." included? Opiate has 4 original studio tracks and 2 live tracks that had never appeared on an album. every song on that album was not available in any form until the release of that album.

"C is for.." has 2 original studio tracks, 2 remixes from a previous album and 2 live track performances of songs from a previous album. while I love the music, the album is majority re-makes.

Opiate has more justification to appear as an album in the discography than "C is for..." according to whatever odd standard you seem to be applying.

I get not including things like the Rage against the machine album because only one song had a partial maynard contribution, but every tool product (including Opiate, Salival, Schism, Parabola and Vicarious "special releases") and every Puscifer produce including D is for Dubby, V is for Viagra etc are primary Maynard Keenan products. all the content is stuff he was intimately involved in writing performing and producing.

do you have something personal against Opiate? either include Opiate or delete "C is for.." for consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gonar (talk • contribs) 14:56, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * A fair point; I have removed C is for. Thanks,  Skomorokh   15:12, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

A Perfect Circle is no longer on hiatus
The section about A Perfect Circle is out of date; the band is currently touring (https://aperfectcircle.com/tour.php). More: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/A_Perfect_Circle#Return_.282008-present.29 Evan.wondrasek (talk) 23:12, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Article or big promotion for Keenan and his business ventures
This article seems to lean a little heavy on the fact that this guy makes and markets his own wine, which seems to be a minor part of his interest. With so many repetitions, it seems a little like an ad.

Further, it seems to talk a lot about his business tie ins, and not so much about why this guy is an important musical figure. Lots of details, not so much context. A publicist couldn't have got a better ad placed than this feature on the front page of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.28.252.14 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Winemaking is a significant part of his life. Lara  03:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, though, I expanded the article on Caduceus Cellars today and plan to do more tomorrow. I'll trim the section in this article and link to the main one there. Lara  04:00, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed - the promotional tour Mr. Keenan embarked on in 2008 appears to have included a stop at Wikipedia. This article is now about as long as Beethoven's. Considerable paring and a refocus on the music seems to be in order. Hiernonymous (talk) 17:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is a featured article, which means it is considered one of the best on the site. It achieved that by being comprehensive, among other things. This is, after all, an encyclopedia not a music fan site, and this is a biography not an overview of his music career. So while most people know him best for fronting Tool and APC, he has done many other notable things and there is much more to his life than just his music. Part of what fans appreciate about this article over others that exist is that this doesn't just focus on music as most of the others do; and judging by the page ratings and rankings, it seems readers appreciate the quality. That said, this article wasn't written by Keenan's promoters. It was written by me and other fans/established Wikipedians.  Lara  15:05, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Writing any article, whether it's Mark Zuckerberg or Google, which includes well-sourced, successful ventures, is not an advertisement. It's an adequate representation of a notable individual or entity, which has enjoyed a certain amount of prosperous ventures. Comparing article length, is well, a measuring contest; not an adequate argument to exclude factual information. the_undertow   talk  22:21, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your point of view. However, I agree that this is an encyclopedia article, not a music fan site, so for precisely that reason, I would normally expect the article to focus on what makes the individual notable.  If Keenan were notable in the wine community on his own merit - that is, if an article on American winemaking would not be complete without mentioning his contributions - then I would agree that it belongs in the article.  On the other hand, if an individual's professional success earns him enough money to indulge in side ventures, that's nice, and might earn a passing comment, but the attention paid to those ventures in the article still strike me as excessive. Hiernonymous (talk) 04:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The article is 18 pages of text long (on my monitor) and slightly less than one of those is about his non-musical business ventures. 1/18 = about 5.5%, which does not seem to be a significant portion of the article.  -- Jayron  32  05:02, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Philanthropy
Keenan's involvement with "Axis For Justice" should be removed from it's inclusion with his other charitable works, as it's obvious partisan political activity. TheLastBrainLeft (talk) 16:32, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Drug Use
Why is there no mention of his recreational drug use? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.81.32.175 (talk) 21:43, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * If you can find it discussed in articles or interviews from reliable sources, it should certainly be included. Lara  00:53, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Photos
There are three photos of Maynard performing in this article, and they are all from the same performance in the same year. I'm not familiar with the restrictions on what photos can be posted, but isn't there some way we can get some diversity in the imagery for this article? Dukeofwulf (talk) 20:20, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * They have to be freely licensed images, which are difficult to come by. We'd love more diversity in the images! Lara  04:16, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Winemaking the priority
I had to pull this out of the article because it just doesn't fit in the flow. But it may be possible to effectively work it in.
 * During an interview on the Australian podcast Wine Week, Keenan revealed that his touring with various bands will only occur at times when his winemaking endeavours allow it.

Lara 04:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I believe he mentioned he was engaged in one his wine making blogs
just throwing that out there —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.226.96.212 (talk) 06:56, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

He's no longer happily unmarried. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.43.59.0 (talk) 01:36, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

February 29, 2012 MJK married Jennifer Lairamore in Louisville Kentucky at the historic Seelbach Hilton, in the rooms Al Calpone played cards. They honeymooned in Italy in April 2012 tracing his winemaking italian roots for two weeks. They have had a long relationship since 2005 where she is an integral partner in his wine venture (running the lab) and Puscifer. Reference his own facebook pages, twitter accounts and his wine website caduceus.org I would venture to say that aside from another TOOL album next year, he very much wants to be home with his wife, making wine and making much less music. Reference an italian article published April 2012 while on his honeymoon where he gave an extensive interview including pictures of his italian ancestry home and of he and his wife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.10.218.106 (talk) 16:17, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Reliable sources are necessary for inclusion in the article. Lara  04:21, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * TheTyrant (talk) 14:29, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Southern Baptist or Jewish?
Was Maynard born into a Southern Baptist family OR was his Mother Jewish, therefore by Jewish law making Maynard Jewish?? Could someone please answer, thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.118.148 (talk) 05:29, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There's no information that indicates that either of these speculations are true in any way. -- Jayron  32  05:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Baptist, here's the proof if it's 100% or not, not sure.
 * Introduction Maynard James Keenan is the singer known
 * 
 * Maynard James Keenan's Life and Works 1.1 Background Maynard James Keenan, born James Herbert Keenan, was born in Ravenna, Ohio to a Baptist family ...
 * The Tool Page: Biographies
 * maynard james keenan. Maynard was born to a Baptist family and grew up with an older sister in Ravenna, Ohio. Maynard attended Brown Jr High and then ...
 * maynard james keenan (tool) - Here In My Head
 * Maynard James Keenan was born to a Baptist family and grew up in Ravenna, Ohio. Maynard is the vocalist for one of the leading alternative metal acts to ...
 * (150.101.166.9 (talk) 09:35, 27 June 2013 (UTC))


 * And more proof
 * Maynard James Keenan – Free listening, concerts, stats, & pictures ...
 * 
 * Top tracks from Maynard James Keenan: Terrible Lie (Acoustic Nine Inch ... Keenan was born to a Southern Baptist family in Ravenna, Ohio on April 17, 1964.
 * The Tool Page: Biographies
 * maynard james keenan. Maynard was born to a Baptist family and grew up with an older sister in Ravenna, Ohio. Maynard attended Brown Jr High and then ...
 * Maynard James Keenan Bio Biography | Maynard ... - TVRage.Com www.tvrage.com/person/id-59130/‎
 * Maynard James Keenan was born April 17, 1964 in Ravenna, Ohio to a Southern Baptist family, along with an older sister. After living in Ohio, Michigan, New ...
 * maynard james keenan (tool) - Here In My Head
 * Maynard James Keenan was born to a Baptist family and grew up in Ravenna, Ohio. Maynard is the vocalist for one of the leading alternative metal acts to ...
 * Maynard James Keenan (Tool)- Musician Profile ‎
 * tout sur Maynard James Keenan. ... Keenan was born to a Baptist family in Ravenna, Ohio, on April 17, 1964. He joined the Army in 1982. By that time he had ...
 * Introduction Maynard James Keenan is the singer known ‎
 * Maynard James Keenan's Life and Works 1.1 Background Maynard James Keenan, born James Herbert Keenan, was born in Ravenna, Ohio to a Baptist family ...
 * Maynard James Keenan - Tool Wiki
 * Maynard James Keenan (born April 17, 1964[1]) is an American rock singer, songwriter, musician... ... He was born into a Baptist family. When his parents ...
 * Maynard James Keenan Bio - noacsc
 * Maynard James Keenan [James Herbert Keenan] was born April 17, 1964, to a Baptist family in Ravenna, Ohio. He has been a member of the band Tool since ...
 * Maynard James Keenan - Everything2.com
 * Birth Name: James Herbert Keenan · Birthday: April ... Full Bio: Maynard was born to a Baptist family and grew up with an older sister in Ravenna, Ohio. Maynard ...
 * Schatty's Tool Site: Maynard
 * Maynard James Keenan, the lead singer of Tool, was born April 17, 1964, to a Baptist family in Ravenna, Ohio. He moved around the country quite a bit growing ...
 * Don't know if I produced the lie or if the lie produced itself... I mean he's an atheist in his own right but I just wanted to find out... I guess he never reads Wikipedia about himself... Oh the guilt...(150.101.166.9 (talk) 09:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC))


 * To be fair, not a lot of those sources would be considered reliable, at all. Most appear to be sites which rely on user submitted stuff. I call the big one bitey (talk) 11:48, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Note: I condensed three sections into one, since the last two were direct responses to the first. I also added bullet points to what were two solid paragraphs of titles and incomplete URLs, and completed the URLs to create clickable links, except for one that's on the global blacklist.

That stated, his Baptist youth has been reliably cited for many years with the current citation. Lara 04:14, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank-you Lara. really appreciate that. I always thought he was born into a Baptist family, but just wasn't sure, since many (and (may I add...)) anti-semitic websites keep "claiming" that he was born Jewish / or had a Jewish Mother. So by acknowledgeing the fact that he was a Baptist (Not just by you but other sources) is a clear indication that he was. Thank-you. :) (150.101.166.9 (talk) 09:43, 26 November 2013 (UTC))

Redirect from Devo Keenan
Why does Devo Keenan redirect to this Lemma? Wassermelone89 (talk) 02:53, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

a suggestion
There should be more focus here on Keenan than on his bands, seeing as Tool (band) and A Perfect Circle and Puscifer are the correct places for any detail. ("He dislikes the manner in which celebrities are worshiped" indeed.) Weeb Dingle (talk) 20:27, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Father's dates
Not sure that the current citations for his parents' dates are detailed enough, but for completeness's sake: his father (or at least a man with the same alleged date of birth and the same distinctive name) seems to have died in South Africa on 23 February 2004, not sure if there's a better source: http://www.graves-at-eggsa.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1900099 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.69.56 (talk) 15:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * An obituary here corroborating the date of birth and location (Ohio) currently given in the article; no mention made of his son, but given what appears to have been a more distant relationship this is perhaps not unreasonable: https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/heraldtribune/obituary.aspx?n=michael-loren-keenan&pid=86265539 The fact that the obituary identifies this Michael Loren Keenan's father as "Herbert L. Keenan" fits with Maynard James Keenan's authorised biography "A Perfect Union of Contrary Things", which states: "They'd give him the middle name Herbert, they decided, after Mike's father and older brother."


 * This all LOOKS corroborative, at first glance- however, the biography gives the grandfather as "Herbert Van Keenan" and his wife (married 1921) as Louise (born Luigia) Ernestina Marzo, not "Doretta", and says of them "the two... were by 1960 able to send their youngest son off to Kent State University in Ohio. Mike, a star member of Kent's wrestling team..." It would surely be very unusual for a young man born 1946 to go to university in 1960 (the book making no mention of his being very young, a prodigy, or anything of the kind), and the obituary gives that M. L. Keenan as an alumnus of New York City College. The book mentions "Van" Keenan as having returned from machine-gun duty in France during WWI; this memorial to a Van Herbert Keenan (presumably reflecting his preferred use of his middle name?) shows him to have been b. 1896, d. 1957, and to have served as a Private in the 3rd Machine Gun Battalion in WWI. Interestingly, it shows also his wife [née "Marzeau" rather than "Marzo", but this is presumably a stylistic choice], and a son, Herbert Lorraine Keenan (1922-2008), whose wife was Ethyl Doretta Keenan (1922-2018), and who, per the obituary above, was the father of Michael Loren Keenan b. 1946 d. 2004. If the "Mike" Keenan that was Maynard James Keenan's father was the youngest son, i.e. born after his parents' 1921 marriage and after the birth of his elder brother Herbert Lorraine Keenan, it's not at all unlikely that he would be namesake to a nephew. This is of course all original research, but it seems more likely that Maynard James Keenan's father was not the man b. 1946, but that this, on the above evidence, was his nephew.


 * Was the 1946 birthdate included in the article original research in the first place based on the uncommon name, or was there an interview or something that it was based on? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.69.56 (talk) 16:05, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, one final note re: the above: the 1940 U.S. Census shows, in an Ohio household headed by Van H. Keenan (b. 1897, West Virginia, as per Maynard James Keenan's authorised biography) and Margaret L. Keenan (b. 1903), a Michael Keenan b. 1940, along with elder brother Herbert L. Keenan b. 1922, and sister Wanda L. Keenan b. 1924. So I'd tentatively state this Michael Keenan, b. 1940, to be Maynard James Keenan's father given he went to college "by 1960" (i.e. aged around about 20), and given all the other details outlined above- not least of which, I feel, is that I don't think there was any strong justification for assigning the 1946 birthdate to M.J.K.'s father in the first place! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.69.56 (talk) 16:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)