Talk:McDaniel College/Archive 1

Old, unlabeled discussion
"The process did not include input from students, alumni, or community leaders about whether or not a name change was actually necessary." "* A large number of alumni have cut ties with the institution in protest of the name change."

Without citing sources or numbers, the above statements do not belong in this article. I've tried to remove them, but someone is intent on keeping it. "A large number"? What does that mean? What's large? 10, 100, 1000000? Where do you get your numbers? There's a way to add that there's disagreement with the name change without violating the Neutral POV clause. The first statement, without attribution, is nothing more than speculation and does not sound very neutral. Please fix.


 * A trace of the IP address of the user who posted the above comment and has done edits is as follows:

64.69.130.67 Blacklist Status: 	Clear Record Type: 	IP Address IP Location: 	United States United States - Maryland - Westminster - Mcdaniel College Reverse IP: 	No websites hosted using this IP address Reverse DNS: 	FS130067.mcdaniel.edu OrgName:   McDaniel College OrgID:     MCDANI-3 Address:   2 College Hill City:      Westminster StateProv: MD PostalCode: 21157 Country:   US NetRange:   64.69.128.0 - 64.69.143.255 CIDR:      64.69.128.0/20 NetName:   MCDANIEL NetHandle: NET-64-69-128-0-1 Parent:    NET-64-0-0-0-0 NetType:   Direct Assignment NameServer: NS2.MCDANIEL.EDU NameServer: NS1.MCDANIEL.EDU Comment: RegDate: Updated:   2002-07-24 TechHandle: MAG1-ARIN TechName:  Groft, Max A. TechPhone:  +1-410-857-2746 TechEmail: Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by Whois Source OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE498-ARIN OrgAbuseName:  Abuse OrgAbusePhone: +1-410-857-2537 OrgAbuseEmail: Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by Whois Source OrgNOCHandle: WNE2-ARIN OrgNOCName:  Newsome, Wallace OrgNOCPhone: +1-410-857-2544 OrgNOCEmail: Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by Whois Source OrgTechHandle: MAG1-ARIN OrgTechName:  Groft, Max A. OrgTechPhone:  +1-410-857-2746 OrgTechEmail: Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by Whois Source This seems to be the case for all ip addresses that relate to the 64.69.130.*** string. Since the user is a current associated with the article in question, they should seriously think about rescuing them self from editing this article. As for sources of this controversy, the Baltimore Sun published a series of articles and editorials between May 5, 2002 and July 1, 2002, unfortunately i have been unable to access them at the present time.--Boothy443 | comhrÚ 19:03, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2005-04-13 19:10
 * 2) Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.

Hey, I never said I didn't work for the college. But trust me, I'm nobody important. Since I am "associated" with the article, I should recuse myself? Does that also go for the previously posted alum? (Now I'm posting from my home computer...you can trace it, if you like.)

As far as sources, let me help you out. Associated Press, January 21, 2002. "More than 800 students and alumni of Western Maryland College have signed a petition against changing the name of the private liberal arts college." And "the problem, school officials said, is that the name is misleading. The school isn't part of the public university system, as the "Maryland" in the name often leads prospective students to believe{...}And the college isn't in Western Maryland. It's in Westminster, about an hour from Baltimore." And "School officials announced their decision - which came after more than 20 years of internal debate - this week." If you have a Carroll County library card, you can get access to news archives, including the Sun. The articles present a fair view of both sides.

I'm not here to debate whether the name change was a good idea, bad idea, indifferent...it's happened, it's over. If you feel so strongly against the name change that your blood pressure shoots through the roof, fine, I don't care. But we can have an objectively written entry that acknowledges there was dissent without grinding your axe.

---

I'm a graduate of the school. I'm a resident of Westminster. I haven't stepped foot back on that campus sense. I still cannot believe the audacity of the administration and the Trustees to make such a drastic change. And nobody asked me if the name should be changed, either as a resident of the town or as an alumnus. I remember being asked about a bunch of generic names. I remember them trying to sell a bill of goods about moving up in the alphabet. I even attended a hearing where the President and another administrator(Seidman? Seidel?) talked about the need to advertise so enrollment didn't drop, knowing full well that the "Baby Boom Echo" was coming and that enrollment would go up on its own. I went to Western Maryland College, but my alma mater died in 2002. I assume that you work for the administration of the school because otherwise you would see that this article does not have a neutrality problem- it's the god's honest truth. PrefectofNovaRoma 18:19, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm an alumnus of the college myself, and a resident of Westminster. So what? Are you honestly closed-minded enough to believe that all alumni and all residents of Westminster feel the way you do? Please. I was upset for a while, then I got on with my life. Am I a member of the administration of the college? Hah. Not a chance.

My original point remains. You post statements that violate the NPOV and do not cite any sources. A more neutral statement could say something like "A number of alumni have expressed displeasure with the decision to change names" or even a fact-based statement like "an online petition against the name change gathered 700 signatures." This is not a place to air your grievances.
 * Agreed, and please sign your posts folks, so we can keep track of who said what. Or at least indent them sometimes. Anyway, I agree that there were "a lot" of people opposed to the name change.  I went to one of the Northern Virginia forums they held about it, and virtually everybody in the room was against changing the name.  However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and you can't say "a lot" because it's too vague.  So even though the article seems to have been neutered of this issue altogether, I still agree that there were "a lot" of people opposed to the name change.  (I've gotten used to it, myself, though I still always say I went to WMC and I thank my lucky stars I was able to get the bookstore's last five WMC bumper stickers when I wrote to them after the name change!  And whenever I wear my shirt around the Gallaudet University campus, people ask me where I got it.  FWIW, the Deaf community often still refers to this school as WMC.) -Etoile (talk) 03:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Government bunker in Lewis?
Is there a source for the supposed government bunker in Lewis? There used to be a facility there, for use of filtering media in case of war with the USSR, but that was removed during the renovations a few years ago, being replaced with more science rooms and a computer lab or two. Is the article referring to a different facility, or is it intended to refer to the facility that is no longer there (not locked, with the key having been lost)? Noble 15:33, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 * When I was a WMC student from 1997-1998, the bunker was supposedly still there. I visited in the early 2000s and saw the new Lewis building.  At that time I heard from students that the bunker had been removed during the renovation. -Etoile (talk) 03:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Well heck, let's add some info now that there are sources to support it. This seems like it is notable for WMC MDC but also for wider Cold War and US media censorship topics. See (anyone have access to the complete article that is truncated here?) and next-to-last paragraph of . DMacks (talk) 04:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, Wartime Information Security Program exists now...enjoy:) DMacks (talk) 05:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Suburban v. rural
westminster is a town of ca. 16,000 within the baltimore-washington smsa. carroll county has a population density of 337/sq.mi. that is suburban by any reasonable definition.Toyokuni3 (talk) 21:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * When I went to WMC from 1997-1998 it was definitely a rural area. It's not close enough to Baltimore to be considered a "suburb" of that city.  I believe there is more shopping available now (the article references a College Square Shopping Center?) so it may not be rural but it's not suburban either.  Perhaps exurb is the term to go with. -Etoile (talk) 03:48, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Needs editing
This article is trying way too hard to make this college sound prestigious. Dave Foster (talk) 06:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121017153507/http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/2001200511220837.asp to http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/2001200511220837.asp

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External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on McDaniel College. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130118210134/http://m.carrollcountytimes.com/mobile/sports/ravens/ravens-harbaugh-coaches-host-clinic-at-mcdaniel/article_8a5b0b3b-9d7d-5363-a4a8-cf30e2a24082.html to http://m.carrollcountytimes.com/mobile/sports/ravens/ravens-harbaugh-coaches-host-clinic-at-mcdaniel/article_8a5b0b3b-9d7d-5363-a4a8-cf30e2a24082.html
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20121215002359/http://oldsite.mcdaniel.edu/2365.htm to http://oldsite.mcdaniel.edu/2365.htm

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"Litigations" and "Campus safety" sections
An unregistered editor is insisting that this article include "Litigation" and "Campus safety" sections.

The "Litigations" section consists of four paragraphs. The first paragraph describes a 1975 agreement with the ACLU and another organization to remove remove religious symbols from campus. This does seem to have had a lasting and meaningful impact on the institution and belongs in the article (but in the history section). The other three paragraphs each describe a lawsuit filed against the college. The first paragraph has two sentences but the others have only one sentence. None of these three paragraphs have any discussion about how the lawsuits were resolved or if they had any lasting impact.

The "Campus safety" section has four paragraphs that each have only one sentence. They are poorly written - ungrammatical, incomplete, missing punctuation, etc. - and don't make any attempt at discussion about lasting impact or larger meaning for the college.

The editor who has edit-warred to add and retain this information has only written that "this information is of interest to prospective students." This encyclopedia article is not written (just) for prospective students but for all readers. Moreover, information should only be included if it has lasting impact and meaning. ElKevbo (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Remove the sections. Without reliable references that state that the events were exceptional compared to similar institutions they are undue and do not adhere to a neutral point of view. Dorsetonian (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

As no further comments have been received, and there was no support for keeping the sections, I have removed the content in question. Dorsetonian (talk) 08:07, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

ElKevbo, you complained that "Campus Safety" section "has four paragraphs that each have only one sentence. They are poorly written - ungrammatical, incomplete, missing punctuation, etc. - and don't make any attempt at discussion about lasting impact or larger meaning for the college." Your complaints seems to be addressed by Truth4McDaniel, yet you keep removing this section. Please, explain your position or stop this destructive behavior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.108.126.82 (talk) 16:18, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Since ElKevbo never explained his objections, I will go ahead and restore Truth4McDaniel's version of "Campus Safety". GreenDevil — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:A04E:FE00:3CD8:CAE6:4F64:9A00 (talk) 03:09, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You're not fooling anyone by using multiple accounts and editing while logged out. And you're certainly not going to make any progress by referring to a discussion that doesn't seem to have occurred. ElKevbo (talk) 12:05, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Then why don't you explain your position? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:A04E:FE00:DC17:D2A7:5CF2:A8ED (talk) 13:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

I propose to discuss reinstating Truth4McDaniel's version of "Campus Safety". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:A04E:FE00:701B:E48D:68C2:EA0E (talk) 05:39, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


 * I strongly object to the sections on Campus Safety and Litigations being put back unless it can be demonstrated that the content - which would be atypical for articles on institutions of this kind - is not simply run of the mill. Without that, it looks very much like a clumsy attempt to portray the institution negatively; a view not helped by the fact that some of it was put there by an IP that geolocates to a different university group. Dorsetonian (talk) 13:33, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2018
change "McDaniel College offers over sixty undergraduate majors"

to

"McDaniel College offers over 60 areas, including pre-professional programs and teaching certification."

as per cited reference, 60 refers to "60 areas, including pre-professional programs and teaching certification"

the actual number of undergraduate majors is much less Truth4McDaniel (talk) 18:55, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Kind of. I swapped the ref to a more appropriate link with the number of majors available, which is thirty-three. Izno (talk) 19:06, 22 November 2018 (UTC)