Talk:McDonnell Douglas/Archive 1

Background
I've made a start unpicking, but most of the first half of this article need to be moved to McDonnell Aircraft Corporation and Douglas Aircraft Company -- Tarquin 13:38, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC)


 * The image will likely soon be deleted. Fred-Chess 20:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The background info has been copied to those two articles. -Fnlayson 17:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed some details from the Background section. -Fnlayson 19:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Airframe
Is it worth mentioning McDonnell Douglas appears to be the basis for much of the book Airframe with the MD-10 and the Flight 191 incidents mentioned and the Norton company itself seemingly based on MD (see the Airfram discussion) Nil Einne 19:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

What about the Other Divisions
Nothing is mentioned about McDonnell Douglas's many othr space, and military (black) programs. Off of the ope of my head there is McAuto (Data Automation), there is space Systems (MD was a prime contractor one of the work packages for Space Station Freedom), there are the rockets including the Delta II and IIIs. The company did a whole lot more than just great aircrafts. Also keep in mind that there is also rich history with the early space program (Mercury, Gemini and Apollo).
 * True. Also Spacelab program.  -Fnlayson 23:55, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think Mercury and Gemini belong under the McDonnell Aircraft Company page, since they pre-dated the 1967 merger. The pre-1967 parts of this article should be migrated to the Dougals and McDonnell articles. And does anyone else find it odd that there are DC-3 and DC-6 pictures in this article that are labeled "McDonnell Douglas DC-3", etc.? Dabarkey 03:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't see a problem with the text. It is brief and in the background section.  I agree about the images.  The Mc and Douglas pics shouldn't be in this one.  I removed the DC-3, 6, 7 and FH-1 images.  Kept the F-4 since it was made pre & post MD merger.  -Fnlayson 04:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If the article is completely gutted we'll also lose the reference (such as it is) to computer systems. Compared to the aircraft story it's small fry but the Microdata corporation article links here because McD bought the company back in the '80s before selling it off again a few years later. I know, I worked there for 12 years. 204.104.55.244 (talk) 14:55, 3 December 2008 (UTC) Chris


 * I have created a redirect here from McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Corporation, as there is nothing there yet. It would certainly benefit by being populated with some space specific info, but at least anyone looking will find something here. cheers --IdreamofJeanie (talk) 06:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Merger?
Boeing and McDonnell Douglas didn't merge together. They bought out McDonnell Douglas and totally destroyed the remnants of the company, refusing to sell the MD planes to the point where they actually had a class action filed against them for breach of contract(Boeing refused to honor options for airlines to purchase the MD-95(aka Boeing 717).--Vercalos 22:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They offically called it a merger. I have offical newsletters and such with merger on it.  -Fnlayson 23:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Boeing's current defense arm is in large part McDonnell Douglas intact.  It is true that they've gutted the old MD commercial wing, but the defense arm, based out of the old MD headquarters in St. Louis, MO, is pretty much solidly made up of and run by former MD employees with a distinct feel from the traditional Boeing sites in Seattle and Wichita. Koreantoast 04:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Joint Strike Fighter
Wasn't MD's elimination from contention for the JSF the real deathblow? LeoO3 15:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

A-12 Program
I've added a paragraph on the entire A-12 program. However, I haven't heard of any information on a final settlement for the program. From what I read in the Boeing's 2006 report, the A-12 continues to be fought in court. Has anyone heard anything else? Koreantoast 06:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * According to a feature in printed in the Wash. Post Magazine in 1994, when SECDEF ended the program (or, rather, asked Congress to end it), the contract was something separate & was not ended. Breach-of-contract suits followed: Gen. Dynamics, Mc-Do were awarded 10s of $millions; & of course the DoD contested that. The article also said that cost-overruns, missed deadlines (no plane was built) were suppressed by program mgr. (a Navy admiral) & the Pentagon sr. auditor (Sean O'Keefe, who later was NASA sr. administrator). 138.162.128.55 (talk) 12:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Try checking McDonnell Douglas A-12 Avenger II. The cancellation and court case stuff is too complicated to get into much detail in this article. -Fnlayson (talk) 13:33, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

The Phantom Works
No acknowledgment of the Phantom Works, also located in Eastern Missouri, renders this article incomplete. I would have to say a fighter, the F-15 Eagle, that has a combat record of 101 victories and no defeats is pretty 'successful'. I am going to start writing a history of McDononnell Douglas so that I can get this one deleted from Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Homer63109 (talk • contribs) 01:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Locations

 * Reply to User:Fnlayson
 * 1. You say "The manta.com source states St. Louis and the 2nd one was a map" - Please pay attention to the **entire** address (the street name and number) - You punch the address into a map tool, and the map tool shows you where the place is.
 * 2. The map is the other half of the citation - it shows the city boundaries. By looking up the address on the map you will see that
 * 3. The "St. Louis" part of the address is misleading - There are countless places NOT in the City of St. Louis that have "St. Louis, MO" postal addresses. That is how the United States Postal Service works. I had stated this concept previously in my first reply, and I am surprised that it hasn't "sank in" yet
 * 4. It is not original research to use an address and a map to source a headquarter location. The address points to a specific location of a place
 * 5. Notice that the Manta source has, "McDonnell Douglas" AND "Boeing Integrated Defense Systems" - The same office that was McDonnell Douglas was taken over by Boeing in the mid-1990s.
 * 6. The map is a valid point; the map I'm using is from 2000 - A three year difference from 1997
 * I found a 1990 map - the shape corresponds to the 2000 map
 * 7. What about the secondary sources that precisely say "Berkeley" as the headquarters location? I found another secondary source that mentions the street as the location of the McDonnell Douglas HQ
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 13:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Listing at the airport covers it, imo. Was the area by the airport in Berkley, MO in 1967 when the company was formed?  If not then I think the location in the Infobox should list St. Louis Metro or St. Louis County to cover the 30-year span. -Fnlayson (talk)
 * There would be several things to be answered:
 * Were the company's offices always at that location?
 * What are the boundaries of Berkeley, MO in previous censuses? The 1990 and 2000 census maps are online, but what about previous census data? - The City of Berkeley was in existence by 1967, as it had incorporated in the 1930s: http://www.cityofberkeley.us/FAQ.aspx
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 16:52, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Overhauling references
Leaving a note that I've completed my intended overhaul of this article; it may be advisable to get it reassessed now that its main flaw has been given a thorough going-over. I hope somebody appreciates the effort taken to go over the history of the company; enjoy. Kyteto (talk) 20:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I do. Thanks & good work. -Fnlayson (talk) 20:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)