Talk:McDowell County, West Virginia

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The history section
This counties specific history section looks to be a direct quote from the McDowell County History text OR the Poli Sci page at WV University......... I will verify with my copy at home and begin edits. As to the local history, the assumption with a local history tag is that you go a level up for veracity, at the county level, that would mean what exactly?? The State, the USA???Coal town guy (talk) 20:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I doubt it is from the Poli Sci page... Poli Sci archive. It seems like I was rewording the section, but I found trouble finding sources for more recent information. –  Nascar1996  ( talk • cont ) 03:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not doubt it came from the McDowell County History book however.........I did indeed check my copy. This is a series of summary quotes with no refs, and thats not too cool really. I think I can fix that within the next few days. As far as most recent, the county has a population of under 20,000 and is in the process of a death spiral, not fun to watch. Most of their places on the NRHP are ready to be visited by a bulldozer and there is virtually no budget to maintain, much less restore these places. AND lest we forget, YES, I did go there in my car (2013) and YES, a dozer is in the future.Coal town guy (talk) 14:24, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Lets try this again shall we? Here is a verbatim extract from the poli sci page "In an effort to raise revenue following the American Revolutionary War, the newly formed federal government sold vast areas of unoccupied land to land speculators, typically as low as three cents per acre. In 1794, three large land grants were sold that covered all of the present county and more. Wilson Cary Nicholas purchased a land grant of 300,000 acres and another 320,000 acre land grant with Jacob Kenney. This latter land grant was said to have covered most of the present McDowell County. It was sold the following year to Robert Morris (1734-1806), the famous wealthy financier who was a signer of the Declaration of Independence, used his financial fortune to underwrite the expenses of the American Revolutionary Army, and, late in life, lost his fortune and spent three years in debtor's prison. Also, in 1794, David Paterson purchased a 150,00 acre land grant that may have included a small portion of the present county. He sold it to Robert Pollard the following year. Thus, in 1795, Robert Morris owned nearly all of land that is now known as McDowell County." The article History section we are discussing for McDowell County is a near precise rewording, paraphrased including the 3 cents an acre verbage and the following the Revolutionary war verbage. Read the article with the extract....While not an exact copy, its a reworded essay with over 80% of the quoted extract with no ref, ergo, UNLESS there is a ref, it will go bye bye.Coal town guy (talk) 15:56, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest hiding it. I doubt there is a reference online, and I don't own any books related to the area. (I was confused on what part of the history you were referring to at first.) –  Nascar1996  ( talk • cont ) 23:47, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I own the physical books, there is believe it or not (and sometimes I do not) a benefit behind starting a Phd in Appalachian studies, didnt finish the Phd, BUT I have a decent library on WV. There are scant books on strictly McDowell County history, I know 2 of the authors as they are still alive, BUT, online, Virgil Lewis, History of WV at Google books, the 1890's edition is a cool start. I own that text as well and from what I can recall, there should be enough between that and a few others I have to actually upgrade the history. After a closer review, there is some repetition, and we could use SOME of the poli sci page of course. As to hiding it, can we hold off for 1 week? I think I can nail most of it to the point of it NOT being a restatement of a single web page by then. ANY help would be GREATLY appreciatedCoal town guy (talk) 03:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Paraphrasing and History
After a verbatim review, the entire History section is what we call Close Paraphrasing and may constitute plagiarismCoal town guy (talk) 16:01, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking into this! :) I see it's been worked on since then. Can I ask if you think this is still an issue that merits the tag? If so, is there anything that I can do to help with the rewrite? Is it bad enough to require removing the section so it can be rewritten from scratch? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:55, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think you are correct, I have been trying to get to it, BUT I have not been able to dedicate the time it needs.Coal town guy (talk) 17:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yup, I am actually going to started editing it again, I blew my knees out this past year, learning to walk vs editing....hey, a man has to choose.Coal town guy (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131509212300/http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvcounties.html to http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvcounties.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110531210815/http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/FindACounty.aspx to http://www.naco.org/Counties/Pages/FindACounty.aspx
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6YSasqtfX to http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov to http://factfinder2.census.gov
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140305164937/http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_DP_DPDP1&prodType=table to http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_DP_DPDP1&prodType=table

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External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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I have just modified 2 external links on McDowell County, West Virginia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120621013138/http://www.privateschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/29370 to http://www.privateschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/29370
 * Added tag to http://www.mcdowellwv.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051101133241/http://www.polsci.wvu.edu/wv/McDowell/index.html to http://www.polsci.wvu.edu/wv/mcdowell/index.html
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Time to prune this thorny bush
So after 5 years, I decided to remove all close paraphrasing, all political stumping, and all unrefed statements. SO, how about we start from what we have and build an actual article? A few observations, why did this county article have a drug related deaths section? Why not a violent crime and rape section as well? Why not do this for ALL counties and possibly just possible create a consistant approach in this encyclopedia? Coal town guy  (talk)   12:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If you're the number one county in the U.S. in drug deaths, murder, rape, etc; then it deserves a mention in the article. "Consistency" as you envision it might prevent information from being included that is essential for understanding the subject -- and one of the most important facts about McDowell County is that it has a serious drug problem. I'm going to put the drug info back in the article -- unless you can come up with a better alternative.Smallchief  (talk) 13:37, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey thats fine, honestly, but its does not answer the concern. Why now? 5 years go by and wow, I know in addition to the close paraphrasing lets talk about drugs and OD's thats fine. That basically says that in 5 years the best that has been done is the fact that we can keep almost all of the close paraphrasing AND add a blurb about drug addiction. Do you honestly believe that this issue is new? Its possibly the poorest county in the state, its close, they have no funds, no police budget, you can score almost any illegal drug you want on the weekends really. No police, no budget for it. BUT of all of this nations counties, you choose this one? Because its newsworthy, sure. It is in the news. How about ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTIES? You mean in Ohio, or Michigan or Oregon there is no drug issue??? So you know what? Keep it in there. Thats right because thats the best we have now. (hushed sounds of thunderous applause) How about rape? Did you get that stat? WHY this one county, DO THEM ALL, be fair? Right? NO. Its newsworthy and notable. THAT is how YOU determined that this issue is one of the most the most important things about this county.. So this isnt an encyclopedia, its a newshub.And whatever trends that is what we put in. NO HISTORY..Why thats boring. OK, I am done here. UNINVOLVED.  Coal town guy   (talk)   14:31, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * First of all, the material about drug deaths is not 5 years old. It was put in the article on 12 January 2017 -- and not by me.  The data is from 2015 -- not five years ago.  Secondly, it's not unusual for material like this to be put in articles about cities or counties.  Check, for example Memphis, Tennessee and Sumter, South Carolina both of which have sections about their high crime rates.  Third, the article Drugs in the United States lists drug deaths by state and West Virginia, is the highest in the country -- and McDowell Country had in 2015 the highest death toll per capita in West Virginia.
 * If you have reliable information that drug deaths have decreased (or increased) substantially in McDowell County since 2015, I suggest you put it into the article, along with a rationale for the decrease (or increase) if one is offered in the reliable source. Smallchief (talk) 18:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * NOT the point. The point is ALL counties should have the data.The data is reliable, the data is not five years old. The data appears after a request to redo a closely worded History section was marked in 2013.... Coal town guy  (talk)   18:50, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * All counties don't have a drug problem -- or one as serious as McDowell Country. McDowell country is notable for the severity of the problem, just like Moore, Oklahoma is notable for the severity of its tornadoes. Shall we require that all counties in the U.S. have a section on tornadoes? Smallchief  (talk) 18:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? I am a tad startled at your point of view (POV) pushing here. Because that means that all of the stats you are posting while accurate, are done because YOUR WORDS "All counties don't have a drug problem". THAT is called a POV. and a POV is a NO NO. EVERY county has a drug problem. ALL OF THEM. SO until you can prove your statement that All Counties do not have a drug problem, (which you better let the DEA know because they are wasting millions of dollars) they will be deleted because its your POV. AND BEFORE YOU START, Do you have a metric documented that states oh at this level, you are at a McDowell County meltdown and wow thats bad?...Do you have that? Whats the ref? Frontline? I have lived there and yes there is a HUGE problem. AND there are HUGE problems with illegal drugs and opioid abuse everywhere.  Coal town guy   (talk)   20:12, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

If McDowell really is number one in the U.S. in drug problems, that is worth a mention in and of itself, without reference to any other county. 213.205.240.237 (talk) 17:39, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Drug induced deaths
SO, where are all of the other county drug induced deaths? Wyoming County? Boone County etc etc. I mean if we want to news monger, wee need rape and murder rates too Coal town guy  (talk)   12:55, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Flag for McDowell County
ANY source for this???? I am unable to see it, I know people on the County Commission, they do not know of it, ANYONE, ANYTHING?? Coal town guy  (talk)   17:22, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I don't know how or where to add this information, but I think it should be documented somewhere that the pronunciation for the name of this location is "Mack Dow" in the mouth of an local resident: at 09:45.
 * Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:21, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
 * That man quite clearly pronounces the "ell" part of the name. --Khajidha (talk) 23:16, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

County Seat
On some guy’s farm 1866-74. Why? 62.105.172.44 (talk) 17:47, 9 March 2020 (UTC)