Talk:McGuffey Readers

Racist
I just wanted to add in the dicussion that it surprises me that the fact that the readers were horribly racist is mentioned nowhere in the article. --169.229.81.51 23:28, 9 February 2005 (UTC)

Comment on comment: The above comment does not add to the discussion. The intent appears to be to purposefully stir up hate and dissension on totally wholesome books. The writer offers no proof, and just spouts a nasty, hateful lie about McGuffey's readers being racist. The Readers offer wholesome commentary on life and living and have people helping people- even foreigners who don't speak English (page 71 3rd reader.)72.154.167.142 14:14, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

How is it that McGuffy was born in "1750" in Pennsylvania, when his parents did not arrive in the U.S until 1774. To follow that logic, he was teaching at age 14 before his parents arrived here. This is a typo that needs to be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.199.121.8 (talk) 18:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Gleaned from other soureces ...McGuffy's year of birth was actually 1800. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.179.228.231 (talk) 14:59, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Mcguffey's readers promoted anti-semitism
For a detailed exploration of this issue, see Chapter 1 of Henry Ford and the Jews, written by Neil Baldwin.

Adam Holland 18:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

How about a link to the readers themselves? They're on Project Gutenberg in plain text, but pdf's would be better for this kind of book. (Or, a mention that pdf's do not seem to be on the web)--209.180.62.254 14:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Not all references to Jews are negative. See "The good Son" in the Fourth Reader.--216.47.187.104 14:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

By the same token, one might wish to eschew all the works of William Shakespeare because his Merchant of Venice seems very anti-semitic. I disliked that play when I first read it; but it has been required reading for years, and as a result, I have come to appreciate the non-anti-semitic aspects. There seems to be a snippet from Ivanhoe in the Readers; and you know that novel is sympathetic to the Jewess Rebecca, totally not anti-semitic. There may be at least another reading that is totally not anti-semitic.

The point is whether or not the readers were completely or partially antisemitic this is an aspect that should be part of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.230.251.244 (talk) 13:14, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

NPOV problems
This article as a whole strikes me as being rather glaringly biased, as evidenced by such choices of words as "McGuffey's Readers are regularly maligned in today's age of political correctness, hypersensitivity, and imagined grievences." --Redeagle688 04:01, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya think? See the comment right above yours for a good example proving this.  96.239.132.63 (talk) 00:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Page looks fine to me
The page looks fine to me, if anything, it never really substantiates any argument that the McGuffey Readers were racist. It should show more evidence if the claim is made. --74.135.4.150 16:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Citation request
The finished works represented far more than a group of textbooks; they helped frame the country's morals and tastes, and shaped the American character. - This sounds like a sweeping generalization. It would be nice to see an authoritative work cited to support this assertion. --W. B. Wilson (talk) 15:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have removed the paragraph in question as a citation for its claims have not been forthcoming in three months. W. B. Wilson (talk) 15:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

COPYVIO
The page linked as the copyright violation seems to be a transcription of this document published by the US Federal Government's National Parks Service. In light of this general disclaimer, it seems likely that it is in the public domain, though we should probably attribute if possible to avoid further copyright worries. John Nevard (talk) 18:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the first revision stored notes that it is taken from a public domain NPS source, the link to which has now vanished (as an HTML page, anyway). John Nevard (talk) 18:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The material has been restored and credit given as required by governing license. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Writer vs. Editor
"Although famous as the author of the Readers, McGuffey wrote very few other works."

While McGuffey apparently wrote the primers, the other volumes - I guess the starting place depends upon the edition you look at - are ecclectic writings taken from books and periodicals. Some of the names and sources are familiar.

McGuffey’s Fourth Reader – Mott’s Edition
Remarkable Preservation – Prof Wilson

The Maniac - Anonymous

Scene at the Sandwich Islands - Stewart

Contrasted Soliloquies – Jane Taylor

On Letter Writing - Blackwood

Ginevra – Rogers poetry

The Whale ship – Prov. Lit. Journal

The Winged Worshipers - Sprague

Death at the Mirror – Diary of a Physican

Death of Absalom – Bible, 2 Samuel 18

Absalom – Willis poetry

The intemperate Husband - Sigourney

God’s First Temples – Bryant poetry

On Elocution and Reading – N.A. Review

Necessity of Education - Beecher

The Scriptures and the Savior - Rousseau

Washington’s Birthday – Webster

Nature and Revelation – Bible, Psalm 19

Niagara Falls - Howison

Niagara Falls – U.S. Review

Character of Wilberforce – Anonymous

Pleasure in Affliction – Akenside poetry

Make Way for Liberty – Montgomery poetry

Speech of Logan Chief of the Mingoes - Jefferson

The Alhambra by Moonlight - Irving

Portrait of a Patriarch - Addison

The End of All Perfection – Mrs. Sigourney

Rest for the Weary – Montgomery poetry

Character of Mr. Brougham - Anonymous

Elevated Character of Woman – Carter

The Passions – Collins poetry

Modes of Writing - Montgomery

Joyous Devotion – Bible Psalm 148

A Night Scene in Turkey – Byron

Criminality of Dueling - Nott

Character of Napoleon Bonaparte - Phillips

The Field of Waterloo – Lady Morgan

The Splendor of War - Chalmers

The Best of Classics - Grimke

The New Song – Bible Revelation 5

The Deluge – Bible Genesis 6

A Hebrew Tale – Mrs. Sigourney poetry

External Appearance of England – A.H. Everett

Vision of A Spirit – Bible Job 4

Character of the Puritan Fathers of New England - Greenwood

Decisive Integrity - Wirt

On the Being of a God – Young

The Steam Boat on Trial - Abbott

Paine’s Age of Reason – Erskine

Divine Providence – Bible Job 5

The Righteous Never Forsaken – New York Spectator

Religion the only Basis of Society - Channing

Benevolence of the Supreme Being - Chalmers

Love of Applause - Hawes

Scripture Lesson – Bible Job 38 Ludicrous Account of English Taxes - Brougham

Christ and the Blind Man – Bible John 9

The Ocean – Anonymous poetry

The Horrors of War – Robert Hall

The Bible - Grimke

Tit for Tat Miss Edgeworth

Political Corruption - McDufie

The Blind Preacher - Wirt

Apostrophe to Light – Milton poetry

Procrastination – Young

America – Phillips

Thirsting After Righteousness – Bible Psalm 42 

View from Mount Etna – London Encyc

Sublime Virtues Inconsistent with Infidelity - Robert Hall

The Alps – W. Gaylord Clark poetry

Parallel between Pope and Dryden - Johnson

Happy Consequences of American Independence – Maxcy

Satan and Death at the Gate of Hell - Milton

Evils of Dismemberment - Webster

No Excellence without Labor - Wirt

Thoughts in a Place of Public Worship – Hannah More

A Plea for Common Schools – Saml. Lewis.

Midnight Musings – Young

Omnipresence of God – Bible Psalm 139

Henry Martyn and Lord Byron – Miss Beecher

Byron – Pollok

Chesterfield and Paul - Miss Beecher

Henry First after the death of His Son – Hemans poetry

Effects of Gambling – Timothy Flint

The Miser – Pollok poetry

True Wisdom – Bible Job 28 

The Wife – W. Irving

Duty of the American Orator - Grimke

The Patriotism of Western Literature – Dr. Drake

Rome – Byron poetry

Rebellion in Massachusetts State Prison - Buckingham

Prince Arthur – Shakespeare poetry

The Child’s Inquiry – Doane poetry

Christian Hymn of Triumph; from “The Martyr of Antioch” – Milman

Charles de Moor’s Remorse - Schiller

Value of Mathematics – E.D. Mansfield

Washing Day – Mrs. Hermans poetry

Capturing the Wild Horse – W. Irving

The Gods of the Heathen – Bible Psalm 115 

The Fall of Babylon – Jebb’s Sacred Lit poetry

Antony’s Oration over Caesar’s Dead Body - Shakespeare

Egyptian Mummies, Tombs, and Manners – Belzoni

Address to teh Mummy in Belzoni’s Exhibition, London – New Monthly Mag. poetry

On the Value of Studies – Lord Bacon

Natural Ties Among the Western States – Dr. Drake

The Venomous Worm – John Russell

The Better Land – Mrs. Hemans - poetry

Benefits of Literature – Lord Lyttleton

Thalaba among the Ruins of Babylon – Southey poetry

William Tell – Knowles poetry

The Vision of Mirza – Addison

The Dirge – Croly poetry

Ladies’ Headdresses – Spectator

Apostrophe to the Ocean - Byron

Reflections in Westminster Abbey - Addison

The Journey of a Day: A picture of Human Life – Dr. Johnson

Morning – Anonymous poetry

Woe to Ariel – Bible Isaiah 29 poetry 

The Proverbs of Solomon – Bible Proverb 10 poetry Comfort Ye My People – Bible Isaiah 40 poetry

The Celestial City – Bible, Revelation 19

America – Nationl Hymn – Mason’s Sacred Harp


 * Collapsing this long list as there is no request, start of a conversation, etc.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Idea
It would be nice to have versions of the McGuffey readers written with other religions in mind. Why should Christianity (and Protestantism) be the only one? &mdash; Rickyrab. Yada yada yada 18:54, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

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"The desire for... less overtly religious content"
Considering that the religious content is apparently a strong factor in its decline in popularity, could we get more detail on where/what it was in the discussions of reader content and changes between editions.

Also, it would probably be a good idea to check if the Readers were superseded by other phonics-based works or by works using the three-cueing/MSV/"whole language" methods promoted by Ken Goodman and Marie Clay in the 1960's, as changes in dominant learning theories may have been more important than text selection (as the different editions were changing their text selections, but would have more difficulty changing underlying teaching methods). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.39.61 (talk) 20:25, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

McGuffey biography
As an FYI, I am not understanding the section with a biography of William Holmes McGuffey because:
 * His biography is covered in his article
 * There's only one sentence with a citation, so the rest is most likely original research

Also, Alexander Hamilton McGuffey routes to this section, but there is no mention of who he is or what his role is in the McGuffey Readers.

That said, I am going to:
 * Remove the McGuffey section (see Content forking)
 * See how much of this info is in the biography and perhaps expand that article
 * Start an article for Alexander Hamilton McGuffey from a redirect
 * Add a sentence or so about the roles of the father and son brothers in the creation of the reader

Any comments - ideas about this?–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:00, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * edit–CaroleHenson (talk) 05:56, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Publication section
Oh copyright-wise one, I hope you can help with this:


 * The Publication section appears to be a copy-and-paste of content from here, starting with the fourth paragraph on page 1.


 * I have been trying to sort out whether it is okay to copy-and-paste from the National Park Service webpage (.gov extension), but I haven't made progress. I must be using wrong search criteria.


 * Is this okay? Or, does the content need to be paraphrased and rev-del earlier versions?–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:10, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I just saw that the COPYVIO section above references, which does not have a clear-cut answer. The article could be copyrighted by the author of the newsletter-type article.


 * This goes back to the very first version here.


 * In 2008, said "The material has been restored and credit given as required by governing license." Still not sure what to do, though.–CaroleHenson (talk) 06:28, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi Carole. I found this article which indicates that the newsletter was written by museum staff. Thus it is in the public domain.— Diannaa (talk) 09:49, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much, !–CaroleHenson (talk) 14:21, 9 June 2021 (UTC)