Talk:McLaren 12C

Predecessor
The F1 is not a predecessor to the MP4-12C, The F1 sucessor is coming down in 2014 so I'm gonna remove that from the infobox.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.194.28 (talk) 21:19, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Engine
I have seen rumours that Mahle or Cosworth (which is owned by Mahle) is involved in the engine design and manufacture. Has anybody seen (more) authoritative information about that ?

  Rps (talk) 13:48, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Pictures
We need to get pictures in here. I contacted McLaren and got this response: "﻿I am afraid that I can only authorise use of official images with official information produced by McLaren Automotive. So in this case I am unable to help with your request." Unfortunate, but we still need to get pictures. Stanislao Avogadro (talk) 22:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Designed and Manufactured?
The car is planned for released in 2011, and so is not yet in manufacture —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.200.122 (talk) 08:36, 24 February 2010 (UTC) How can Wiki list this car and some other Top Gear fastest lap cars..and not mention price? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.116.55 (talk) 21:37, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Ricardo
Ricardo plc is credited with design and build input on engine/gearbox? Can anybody say where the engines will be manufactured? The Ricardo page is not giving credit where due? Rupertlt (talk) 15:50, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Brake Steer
While I realise there is a marketing/fanboi imperative to claim everything is F1 inspired, in fact using the brakes to improve cornering has been a standard feature of some road cars for many years. By no means the first to use it was the 2004 Ford Territory. Of course fiddle brakes have been around on tractors for much longer than that. Honda at least used diff vectoring as well, but I don't remember when. Greglocock (talk) 23:38, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Cleaning up Engine section
Since there already is a separate (if short) article on the M838T engine, I'm cleaning up the engine section and putting a redirect to that article. D3v4st4t0r (talk) 15:22, 5 May, 2011 (UTC)

Ferrari accusations
I removed the accusations against Ferrari as they're not founded, even the one who started it all, Chris Harris from EVO magazine has called out that what he meant was not that Ferrari took heavily modified cars to tests. The reason of the discrepancies of the performance of the MP4 is due to McLaren not bringing properly broken in test cars with only 3,000km on the odometer that were incredibly off of manufacturer claims; recent test from German Magazines, Sport Auto and Autozeitung are employing different test cars with over 10,000km which have already matched and exceeded McLaren claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.153.31.95 (talk) 20:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

weight
two different weight for the car are given "he MP4-12C weighs 1,301 kg (2,868 lb) dry"

and 3,082 71.66.104.62 (talk) 23:15, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

MCLAREN MP4-12C SPECIFICATIONS
bodywork
 * Number of doors 2

dimensions & weights
 * Wheelbase 2670 mm
 * Front track 1656 mm
 * Rear track  1583 mm
 * Length 4507 mm
 * Width  1908 mm
 * Height  1199 mm
 * length:wheelbase ratio 1.69
 * Kerb weight 1434 kg 3161 lb
 * Weight distribution 42.50 %
 * Fuel tank capacity 72L

engine
 * Engine manufacturer  McLaren
 * Engine code M838T
 * Number of cylinders V 8 in 90° vee
 * Engine position mid longitudinal  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.125.67.127 (talk) 02:24, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Capacity 3.8 litre  3793 cc
 * Bore × Stroke 93 mm × 69.9 mm 3.66 in × 2.75 in
 * Bore/stroke ratio 1.33
 * Valve gear DOHC  4 valves per cylinder  32 Total valves
 * max power 600 PS (592 bhp) (441 kW)at 7000 rpm
 * Specific output 155.8 bhp/litre  2.55 bhp/cu in
 * max torque 600 Nm (443 ft•lb) at 3000-7000 rpm
 * Specific torque 157.94 Nm/litre
 * Engine construction aluminium block & head
 * Fuel system EFI
 * brake mean effective pressure 1984.7 kPa (287.9 psi)
 * Maximum RPM 8500 rpm
 * Engine coolant Water
 * Cylinder volume 474.88
 * Aspiration Turbo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.125.67.127 (talk) 09:42, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Performance
Ref 17 shows a complete road test and drag racing review with video and timeslips showing the MP4's performance: http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/mclaren-mp4-12c-runs-10-55-134-56-mph-drag-racing-14-mile-quickest-production-car-behind-the-veyron

The source is valid and has been referenced by other auto news sources, autoblog, jalopnik, top gear, autospies, worldcarfans, topspeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.106.164.23 (talk) 20:48, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It is an enthusiasts blog/forum. It is not a reliable source. --Biker Biker (talk) 21:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Seems like you refuse to read and view the videos along with timeslips. How are you refuting video and timeslip data shown? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.225.146 (talk) 00:23, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Road and Track referencing the article: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/racing-videos/the-mclaren-mp4-12c-on-a-drag-strip  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.225.146 (talk) 00:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Autoweek referencing a review done by DragTimes: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130129/green/130129782

Huff Post news story referencing a review done by DragTimes http://videos.huffingtonpost.com/entertainment/electric-tesla-car-smokes-dodge-viper-in-drag-race-517656001

Motor Trend using DragTimes as a reference: http://wot.motortrend.com/watch-a-tesla-model-s-smoke-a-2005-dodge-viper-srt10-at-the-drag-strip-321619.html

Engadget Referencing DragTimes http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/28/tesla-model-s-fastest-production-ev/

NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing Association) Recognizes DragTimes tests in their record books http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html

GTSprit Reference http://www.gtspirit.com/2013/03/22/video-stock-mclaren-mp4-12c-runs-10-5-second-14-mile/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.199.201.194 (talk) 18:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

AutoBlog References DragTimes http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/23/dyno-might-dragtimes-gets-the-numbers-on-the-ls3-corvette/

Biker Biker has not provided any data to show DragTimes as not being a reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.249.225.146 (talk) 00:28, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * All very interesting, but according the the DragTimes website: "Dragtimes is a database of 1/4 mile drag racing timeslips submitted by drag racing enthusiasts." This sounds like fun, but far from a reliable source. Warren (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

And as per the article "We had some time testing out the 2012 McLaren MP4-12C to get some real world all out drag racing and performance results at Palm Beach International Raceway." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.199.201.194 (talk) 14:54, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Moving article to McLaren 12C
I am moving this article to McLaren 12C to match the naming per the manufacturer here. The previous title will redirect to the new one. Bahooka (talk) 01:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Merger proposal from McLaren 650S
I propose that McLaren 650S be merged into McLaren 12C. McLaren marketing notwithstanding, the 650S is a tweaked 12C with P1-inspired fascias; there's an officially quoted 75% parts commonality. In short, it is to the 12C what a 458 Speciale is to a regular 458 Italia. Cloverleaf II (talk) 08:03, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Support merger as per nominator. I have checked the photos (above), and the body panels are clearly carried over in most cases. OSX (talk • contributions) 11:22, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Support merger as per nominator. It essentially is the same car, just with minor variations jaredclce (talk • contributions) 16:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose I don't agree. McLaren is selling it a different model, even if most of the car still looks like the 12C. Super Knuckles (talk) 08:03, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * It isn't just appearance.. And since when did marketing claims matter in these instances? Cloverleaf II (talk) 11:32, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

* Support - having taken both photos used, I also recommend looking at the rear view - nearly indistinguishable. Simply a new numerical code and a modified front.  Mr.choppers &#124;  ✎  02:02, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose - a merger wouldn't by a major issue, but this was a significant facelift leading to a new model name, and it isn't unusual for an additional article to be created. I see no problem with two articles as currently (such as Morris Marina and Morris Ital?. Warren (talk) 08:55, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, if it wasn't for article size issues in my opinion there would be a case for merging the articles you quoted. From a simply practical standpoint, a well-written McLaren 650S article would be 50% a plain rewording of McLaren 12C. Cloverleaf II (talk) 11:32, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose The 650S is not only cosmetically different, both from the front and the rear, but also features a reworked engine, reworked suspensions, reworked computer controlled chassis... in short, it's a new car altogether. Had McLaren decided to continue production of the 12C of called the 650S something like 12CS a merger would be apropos but as it is they are two very distinct cars. The important thing is that the 650S is not a derivative of the 12C, it's a major rework with some similarities, the same as other manufacturers use similar components on differing models. My two cents! 50.49.149.174 (talk) 21:21, 6 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose Power and design is different. Even McLaren is making many news limited edition cars based on 650S. Like 650S Sprint, GT3 650S Bespoke etc. Shobhit Gosain  Talk 06:17, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose The McLaren 650S is significantly modified from the 12C, both internally and externally. As a new model, it has replaced the 12C in McLaren's lineup of production vehicles (older ones are still available to buy), making a merger of the two articles inappropriate. TROPtastic (talk) 02:28, 1 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose The 650S is a replacement for the 12C as opposed to being just a more powerful model. The 650S has spanned it's own model range with the 625C, 675LT and the spider and gt3 versions. It does look very similar to the 12C however so do the Ferrari 360 and F430, and the 458 and the 488. Because Mclaren is such a small manufacturer this can be expected. Hennelly14 (talk) 19:54, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Oppose - the appearance of the new offshoot models of the 650S has convinced me.  Mr.choppers &#124;   ✎  03:28, 5 March 2015 (UTC)