Talk:McMaster University/Archive 2

New rankings
Hello. I don't know how to do it but someone should update the university rankings.

QS ranking 2010 has us ranked 162 in the world: http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2010/results/101-200

Times higher education has us ranked 93 in the world: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.62.65 (talk) 23:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

University Motto
User:DoubleBlue keeps changing the university motto to Latin when the link referred to here states how most universities have their motto in Latin but McMaster, being the exception uses Greek instead. "McMaster founders evidently desired to go back to the Middle Ages to the earliest days of the Christian faith, and therefore used the Greek form" It is only translated into Latin for people's understanding but it is not officially used.

The picture of McMaster motto is clearly in Greek and so this should be followed. In contrast, comparing it to UofT's crest which says "Velut arbor ævo" reinforces the fact whatever is printed on the crest is considered official and should be followed. 58.152.144.80 (talk) 16:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for finally explaining your edit. I now concur Double Blue  (Talk) 16:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Israeli apartheid
I'm surprised at the reversions back and forth here on this issue and claims of vandalism without any discussion. Both sides have a reasonable position, as far as I can see. Though the sources used in this article are not terribly WP:Reliable sources in terms of verifiability and neutral point of view, there are several reliable sources available through a GoogleNews search. There is also the danger of Undue weight being placed upon it. Please discuss your concerns on the talk page and perhaps a compromise and better article can come out of the discussion. Double Blue (talk) 02:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I am disputing the content about israeli-apartheid shouldn't be placed in the main article as it is irrelevant to the contents on the main Wiki McMaster University page. It is rather an internal policy or rules governing certain signs/banners posted in the student centre. Therefore, I strongly believe it should be placed in the McMaster Students Union as it is much more appropriate. A lot users do not listen and just believe my reversion is as an act of censorship or vandalism. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss. Thank you 219.79.199.217 (talk) 11:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.102.81.48 (talk)


 * Also, why should his comment be kept on the page when other people want it removed. Some people just roll back and revert edits blindly and think its vandalism and post useless warning messages. 218.102.179.86 (talk) 09:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Please try to get consensus first, according to Wikipedia code of conduct, before removing the section. Consensus is defined here Consensus. I left you a comment earlier on your talk page asking you to read Dispute_resolution on how to proceed in this case. &prod;&cup;&beta;i&alpha;&tau;&epsilon;ch  18:05, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see anyone discussing besides that person. 144.214.156.118 (talk) 02:41, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Third Opinion
To be honest at first glance this doesnt seem to be a major incident and not even enough to be titled a 'contoversy'. It seems a minor stir the type you get often at universities with no real coverage aside from the few small articles mentioned. For it to be a controversy i'd want to see at least some degree of coverage in the local dailies etc. I agree with the concerns over undue weight on this particular event. Is there a compromise here can we remove the section and add maybe a single line about it to another section? Are there any more sources to be found? I'm also concern that it does not mention the universities response i.e. That the alleged 'ban' does not in fact exist at all and that people overeacted to misinformation. --neon white talk 00:58, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with the concern of undue weight placed on this issue. However, I think it is a controversial issue as it touches two highly charged subjects -in my opinion-, freedom of speech, and a major conflict in world affairs with global reach. On the other hand, the scope of the issue seems limited to student activity regulations and not the political stance of the university's governing body. I suggest that the section be moved unchanged into a subsection of "Student life". &prod;&cup;&beta;i&alpha;&tau;&epsilon;ch 02:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Should be moved to McMaster Students Union article. 203.218.43.69 (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think it fits there at all and it doesnt matter what the subject is, a handful of one off internet articles isnt really a controversy (. We'd need to find evidence of this being widely debated for it to be a controversy otherwise it's a storm in a teacup. --neon white talk 06:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I figured that would be a better compromise. But on firsthand, its insignificant to be included on wikipedia anyway. 219.78.59.30 (talk) 08:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sparked by "degree of coverage" above, I googled around a bit and found this article reporting similar bans at Carleton University and the University of Ottawa.
 * About McMaster, that news article says,


 * The info hasn't (yet?) appeared in the WP on either of those universities.


 * bigcampaign.org/, an organization campaigning for a boycott of Israeli goods, mentioned McMaster in a couple of articles last year: and . The Varsity magazine at the University of Toronto in an article in their 5 March issue, reports

About McMaster, that article says


 * The February 18, 2009 article Exposed: University of Toronto suppresses pro-Palestinian activism in rabble.ca ("News for the rest of us"), says


 * That article was reprinted here by the Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid.
 * There is more stuff out there, but that's all I looked at. This appears to be last year's issue at McMaster I don't know whether or not it is still enough of an issue that it still deserves mention in this article, but McMaster is apparently still being prominently mentioned in relation to the issue. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 03:50, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
 * thevarsity.ca is a college newspaper with a history but i'm not sure about it's reputation for fact checking. College newspapers are usually used carefully. THe problem is according tot he college there wasnt a ban. The whole things seems to be people getting irate over nothing. Maybe there is a more general article we could add to? as alot of this involves other colleges. --neon white talk 21:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's not really a big enough controversy to merit its own section in this article. I attend McMaster and haven't even heard of this issue until reading this article. None of my housemates - also Mac students - have brought it up, either, so I doubt they know much more than I do. To be honest, no one I know has brought it up at all. This seems to be an issue relevant only to a certain population within Mac. 76.64.64.156 (talk) 03:07, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Moved Material of "Israeli Apartheid" Controversy
Students at McMaster University are forbidden to use the term "Israeli Apartheid" when debating the conflict in the Middle East. The university refused a request for permission to print and hang a banner usng the phrase in the university’s student centre to promote Israeli Apartheid Week, a series of lectures and events that’s held on more than 20 campuses. University spokespersons said that the request was denied because the sign was “testing the boundaries of freedom of speech for one party, verses use of offensive and inflammatory language as interpreted by another.” The decision drew praise from the local Jewish community and the Jewish Students Association. Campus Pro-Palestinan group denounced what they claimed was an unjustified act of censorship.


 * I made the cut due to WP:notability but to preserve the integrity of the information should I be wrong on this one. My vote is to Delete--Labattblueboy (talk) 06:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What does notability have to do with it? The main issues with the passage is that the first sentence has been disproven by a university spokesperson who claimed that every public displayed banner is vetted and potentially offensive ones are not allowed. It was the banner that was banned not the use of a term. With this in mind it seems like a none issue. --neon white talk 17:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused by the comment. I cut the material because it is not an issue with significant coverage as defined under the WP:Notability policy. More specifically the section does not add value when providing a general overview of McMaster University. The other issues are irrelevant if the topic of discussion is not of significant note, to effect a change in the overview of the topic. --Labattblueboy (talk) 02:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Notabilty policy only refers to the subject of articles not to content. The subject of this article is McMaster University, which is obviously notable. N explains it. I think what you might be referring to is undue weight which is being discussed above. --neon white talk 05:48, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Infobox image
Request: Could anyone help Keitherson improve the usability of Image:McMasterCoatofarms.jpg, possibly giving it a transparent background or even better converting it to a PNG or SVG format image?.--Labattblueboy (talk) 12:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have created the image at the right using the high-res segments from this website: http://www.mcmaster.ca/coat/. The rendition is not perfect but I feel like it does a good job of representing the coat of arms. It can most definitely be improved and I invite other artists to try and make it adhere more to the images of the crest that we have available.AniRaptor2001 (talk) 16:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * thumb

Infobox Image Poll
There is currently an attempt to resolve the issue of which image to use in the article's infobox (Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Universities). If these discussions fail to come to a consensus one way or the other can I get a show of which image would be preferred? --Labattblueboy (talk) 12:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Support Image:McMasterCoatofarms.jpg

 * Conditional Support if image quality is improved. --Labattblueboy (talk) 12:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Support Image:MacU.png

 * Support if image quality of Image:McMasterCoatofarms.jpg can not (or will not) be improved. --Labattblueboy (talk) 12:54, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much AniRaptor2001. Your help is most appreciated. I think this resolves the situation. The image is of sufficient quality to have my full support. --Labattblueboy (talk) 17:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Top work guys. Thank you very much. 219.79.198.238 (talk) 05:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

indigenous studies?
i had added a small section on mcmaster's indigenous studies program to the main article as well as the "special programs" section of the mcmaster articles box at the bottom of the page. now both are mysteriously missing without any comments in the archives. anyone knowwhats going on? --24.141.78.110 (talk) 04:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't say anything with regards to the special programs box but I can say I removed the indigenous studies section. Beyond containing no citation (which is a problem for the article in general) the program is not important enough from an encyclopedic point of view to merit it's own section. I could see in meriting a sentence or so under the academics section. --Labattblueboy (talk) 05:46, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

McMaster iSci
Hey, an article that I created for the program of "iSci" at Mac entitled "McMaster Integrated Science" was recently deleted and redirected to this article. Is it possible to at least have a mention of this program within this page or the "Faculty of Science" page? This article: http://www.educause.edu/EDUCAUSE+Review/EDUCAUSEReviewMagazineVolume45/ANewApproachtoScienceEducation/195809 could be used as a reference. Thanks

(Prateek (talk) 05:50, 5 February 2010 (UTC))

Research Centres
Why was my section on Research Centres removed?? I think it is a good idea to mention them.
 * The only citation was a mcmaster link. It might merit inlcusion as a single phrase, but not an entire sub-section.--Labattblueboy (talk) 20:20, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

What's this
about a Mix Master University? harej 19:32, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * We have hybred universities like Cornell. Racepacket (talk) 12:15, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * lol wut? 112.118.146.53 (talk) 09:09, 26 January 2011 (UTC)