Talk:Međimurje County

Some notes
Some notes about my editing:


 * "In the national frames area is considered as the rich one. " I have absolutely no clue what this means. Can someone try again? :-)
 * In the History section, I also don't know what "number cores" refers to in "During the 13th century, number cores belonging to localities"
 * "Vineyard" is the correct english word for places where grapevines to produce wine are grown, not "wineyard".

Elf 02:44, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

More editing notes:
 * First paragraph changed from "hot stormy summers" to "hot tempest summers"; "tempest" is a kind of storm, so I'm not sure what was really meant. I'm changing it back to "stormy"
 * I'm changing "In the national frames area is considered as the rich and prosperous one." to "This area is considered to be the nation's most rich and prosperous area."


 * I think they meant "one of the most ..." because it's not /the/ one. --Shallot 16:29, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * I'm guessing wildly that "number cores" means "many military groups," (as in "corps") but I still don't know whether that's a good guess.

Elf 06:11, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Corn
This page links to the disambiguation page Corn, but I'm not sure which sense is intended. Can you help? Thanks. &mdash; Pekinensis 22:07, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Editing explanation
I have drastically changed the history part. Before reverting, please consider the following:

1. I have taken all information from a one-sided webpage (http://www.magtudin.org/Murakoz.htm) written by Antal Munczi, who was born in Cakovec and was in the frontline of the events in 1918-1945.

2. His emotional writings were cut out, trying to sticking to facts. I was very keen to be NPOV. Please be so on your side.

Please let me put here some other thoughts from him, which explains the edit more in detail:

" Most politicians in Croatia are opposing the fact that Medimurje was part of Hungary from the occupation of Carpathian basin of the Magyars Honfoglalás. In 1955, the newspaper distributed in emigration in Buenos Aires called Horvatska Misao, Dr. Milan Blazeković writes about history of Medimurje (Povijestna pripadnost Medjimurja). He is citing historian Rudolf Horvat, who is very anti-Hungarian.

Decrees of Croatian origin calls the area "Dráva Muraköz", or "Muraköz" from the ancient times. The decree from 1264 by Slavonian ban Roland calles it so. The letter from Zagreb in 1334 reads „decime de Bekchin et Drava-Murakuz non bono modo persolvuntur, quoniam ille gentes non sunt de banatu.”

Dr. Blazeković writes, Croatian origin is prooved by the fact that in 1564 Nicola Zrinski organises the ban conference in Cakovec. It is natural, that it was held in Cakovec, as Croatia was doomed by Turks, and Croatia was under Hungarian crown. He could hold the conference in Hungary. Another proof is that the area was Hungarian, that the wine regulation decree from Nicola Zrinski from 16/June 1648 was written in Hungarian. The original is as follows:

„My Groff Zrinyi Miklós Szala(=Zala) és Somogy Varmegieknek feő Ispannja. Adjuk tudassara mindeneknek az kiknek yllik. Mynthogy az my Chyaktornjay(=Csaktornya, Cakovec) Varosunknak eleyteöll fogva valo reghy sokassa ez volt hogy bizonios szamu bortt az Urak szamara korczomalassokkall soktanak ky arulnj. Hogy azert az eö reghy sokasok és sabadsagok ynkab meg maradgion akarunk ez uj levelönket nekik adnj hogy semmi nemő renden valo vagy feö ember vagy szeghyn maga boratt az korczma (ban) levő borjukra ki ne kezdhesse ez mi nekik adoth levelönk ellen. Ha penigh valakj talaltatik hogy erő serintt vagy hatalommal korczmankra rea keszdeni, sabadsagok legien, ez mi levelönk erejnek, annak uj kesdeteth boranak elsőben czegerett le vettny es ha maszor ky teszi ellenek az Varosiaknak, az hordonak az feneke ky vagattassek. Melinek nagjobb erőssenall megerősitven. Datum in Curia nsra supra robor…. Zreny Miklós (L.S.).”

This document can be found in the Archives of Cakovec (and can be read by Hungarian).

Dr. Blazeković is declaring Medimurje as ancient Croatian, and he is basing this on documents kept in archives of Germany, Italy, and Zagreb, but these documents are fake.

(...)

After the Treaty of Trianon, it was heavily propagated that the region was always Croatian. In 1918, they started to artificial resettlement of Hungarian civil service to present-day Hungary, but until they were moved, they lived in the greatest poverty as they received no salary, lived from good-hearted locals. They distroyed the Hungarian craftsmen, too, as they were not given any work, and were obliged to take any work they could. The mayor or count Festetics was also distroyed, as the animals were dying in thousands by hunger.

(...)

The Croatians admitted that Medimurje was annexed unlawfully in 1918, as in the cease-fire agreement of Belgrade, it was not mentioned as the land to annex. They claimed that the annexation was based on the will of local people. They cited some local persons, such as Dr. Novak, Dr. Videc, Lesiják and Glogovec. They were hardly from Medimurje, as they attended schools in Zagreb and Varasdin. They all settled in Croatia and lived there till 1919, where they were moved to Medimurje to take their jobs, but later it was found out they are Yugoslav-minded, so they are not only against Hungarian, but also Croatian politics. Some years later they were disgraced, and ended their lives in poverty.

"

So, please don't look at my editings as aginst Croatians, it was not my will. If you delete or modify, pls give citations. Abdulka 15:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why and since when Medimurje was part of Zala county, instead of being part of Croatia-Slavonia. Did it ever belong to the (Habsburg) Kingdom of Croatia or later Croatia-Slavonia? Also, why was it controlled by Croatia nobility while being part of Hungary proper? ZythrosJuby 22:23, 26 May 2017

Etymology
I've removed the section about Međimurje meaning 'between' - 'međi' does presumably derive from Hungarian language and refers to 'border'. That's at least the explanation of the president of the Commission on the Standardisation of Geographic Names of the Republic of Slovenia, who has explained this in a comment on the Slovene Wikipedia (sl:Uporabnik:Draper). --Eleassar my talk 12:27, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

The removal was absolutely unjustified and I have reverted it. The Croatian name indisputably means "between the Mura". The meaning of the Hungarian name, Muraköz, is approximately the same. The German name, Murinsel, also emphasises the region's location between two rivers (Insel being German for "island"). It is also highly unlikely that međi refers to "border" in Hungarian, in which the word for "border" is határ. It could have possibly come from the Croatian word međa, which does mean "border", but that's irrelevant here. Mirc07 (talk) 22:55, 28 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but your reasoning is absolutely unsourced, so I'm removing the paragraph again. Please, try to find sourced arguments. --Eleassar my talk 14:12, 4 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I live in the region my whole life, and I've never heard anybody saying the same as you about the etymology. I am forced to revert your "edit" again. You are the one who removed that paragraph without finding sourced arguments (a talk page discussion is NOT a source). What you did is nothing but vandalism, which I will no longer tolerate. Mirc07 (talk) 11:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but according to WP:BURDEN, "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material." It's up to you to find a reliable source if you want to restore the material so please do so when you do find one. --Eleassar my talk 11:21, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I will try to find a source. Until then, I think the paragraph should stay, so please stop removing it. Mirc07 (talk) 11:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Seems better, although I don't know where in the reference is it stated that: "The names Međimurje and Muraköz mean "between the Mura"." Please, specify where precisely this is stated or provide another reference. Here I link another text that is not to be used as a reference, but sheds doubt on the sentence nonetheless. ---Eleassar my talk 16:10, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that understanding Croatian and Hungarian is enough to know what the two names mean. I am not going to waste any more of my time explaining something that does not need to be explained. This is my last message concerning this issue. Mirc07 (talk) 16:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think so if someone else linked above explains the term in Croatian differently. I'm removing the statement from the article till you have a decent source. --Eleassar my talk 17:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Do whatever you want. I will no longer play this game. Goodbye. Mirc07 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC).

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120425231337/http://www.huncro.hr/magyarsagPDF/Mjesecnik1103.pdf to http://www.huncro.hr/magyarsagPDF/Mjesecnik1103.pdf

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