Talk:Medellín

Drugs and violence
We currently write about Medellín without even mentioning drugs or violence. This seems wrong to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:05, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

This is article is missing many important facts like Medellin is the "murder capital" and the Cartel de Medellin -- Elpaisa1 (5 Dec 2005)

Why we have to point out always the negative!! (Raniya 22:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC))

its the truth im from Medellin and don't tell me its wrong or not what to write this in an encyclopedia - Elpaisa1


 * Because we are an encyclopedia, not a travel brochure. Just like the article on Seattle, where I live, mentions its history of a boom-and-bust economy, and the fact that about 1.5% of its population is homeless. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

The history part is really bad. It actually has nothing to do with the real history... There is not a word on its foundation (founder, dates, native tribes...). There isn't a mention on Medellin's developement and the facts that made it grew and snatched the capital from Santafé de Antioquia.tee The violence and drugs part is actually wrote with anger, not objective as an encyclopedia. It happened but it is not half the history of the city. It is a BIG lie Medellin has the biggest homicide rate. In 2004 the anual homicide rate was 60 per 100.000 habs, as compared to 133 of Caracas(Ven), 92 of Cali (Col) or 62 of Washington (USA). In 2005 the rate in Medellín has dropped other 34% but there isn't a comparison available yet --slayer 00:00, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Umm Well the article said that the homicide rates declined on the 2000's, but It was the most violent in 1992 It had an homicide arte of 356 homicides per a 100000 inhabitants having more than 6800 homicides in Pablo Escobar times.

Slayer, Medellin no longer has the highest recorded homicide rate and the article never said it did. However, you can't deny that it certainly holds the world record from the early 90's of any reasonably sized city. Around 300 murders per 100,000 of a city which then had just over 2 million people.


 * I was there from 1976 to 1998, I can say with property that many of the things described in the page are wrong. No mather who said or write this garbage or whomever magazine say it. I am a witness of the this decades and I am a survivor of that war. I saw my family getting murdered. I am not saying that is an open war for everyone, but there are many violent people in that country that makes the death and destruction a social business. Since the open war with the open cartels (And i mean by open cartels, those that show off their money to everyone) from 1980 to the present date, the country has changed for the better, but still is not the safe place that used to be. Many of the people that still living in that country deserves respect, and I agree that this article is an encyclopedia, and that is not a personal log, but it should also be a neutral writing of the facts, not the object of points of view or hersay from a North-American boy that read the information on a newspaper or magazine. So people stick to what you know FROM FIRST HAND, not to gosip or CNN garbage. Also, all homicides are not connected with the narcotrafic war, there are also mamy other reason such as gang violence, poverty (many will kill you for your close), family grudges, territorial disputes, etnic hate etc. It must also be considered the historical behaviour of the Colombian race, which is a violent and thristy for revenge society that considers that an eye for an eye is the law on rule to be follow.

That murder rate for Caracas is often quoted yet almost certainly false. The real rate is probably somewhere between 50 to 100 per 100,000 across a city of 4.6 million.

Again and not for the first time, Washington D.C.'s murder statistics and violence levels have been exaggerated. D.C.'s murder rate in 2004 was 37 per 100,000 - almost half of what you claimed, slayer. You also have to remember that Washington is a city of only half a million people so the murder rate is actually inflated anyway. Medellin's murder rate [apart from the last couple of years] is normally much higher and it's spread across a city that's several times the size.

If there is a big lie then it's Washington's WAY more widespread reputation as 'the murder capital of the world', and the severe underreporting of Medellin's far worse homicide epidemic. Just compare the two pages on this site. The D.C. page has a whole crime section which goes into detail about the cities' homicide levels. - Serbitar

Serbitar: I found the new version a little bit better but my main goal was to correct the false statements that appeared in the article, not to discuss the crime in Washington... The data that I got was published in newspapers. BTW: It sounds funny that you claim Washington has only half a million, but in this site the metropolitan area of Washington is 4'190.000 without Baltimore.

I won't go further in this thread but remember, the main hospitals are located in Medellin, and many deaths are critical patients sent from the whole metropolitan area. And I also don't know which is your basis to stablish homicide rate in Medellín is underreported and Caracas data is also wrong.

To whom I believe to be Slayer: Aaah....the old excuses come out for Medellin being so violent once again. The reality is that Medellin's murder rate would barely change if the patients were attacked right near the hospital. I've seen gunshot and stab victims in Medellin hospitals and it's incredible how many who come in that actually survive.

I forgot to mention the small matter that Medellin city proper is actually more violent than outer Medellin.

Yes, Medellin is underreported. How often do you see Medellin violence reported on the news?? I don't know what news channel you watch but let me know so I can see for myself. I've lost count of the news items and documentaries on Los Angeles gangs/American gun violence I've seen over the years.

It is funny that you point out that Washington's population is just under 5 million because the murder rate is taken from the 'city itself' which has a population of around half a million, man. You may be right about the Caracas statistics as they're possibly taken from the city proper which has a population of 1.8 million rather than the metro area. Then again I'm still not sure as Latin American murder rates normally are for the metropolitan region but I've heard it is for the city itself.

Um Caracas is counted with 3200000 inhabitants and in 2013 It Had more than 4300 homicides giving It rate of 134 homicides per 100000 inhabitants also in 2013 Medellín's arte was just of 38 homicides per a 100000 just a point higher than baltimore's. I'm leaving you the most dangerous cities of the world (It's in spanish) http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Ciudades_por_tasa_de_homicidio_intencional

I took the word "unfortunately" out of the description since it violates Wikipedia's no-POV policy. Greenhalgh

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It´s really irrelevant to write about drug cartels, etc.. ; we should mention how Medellín is today and not 15 years ago. The history would be so terrible. Nowadays Medellín is the most progressive city in Colombia (Metro,...). It´s true that there was a high criminality rate, but this was around 1990 when Escobar was alive. Now the criminality rate is under the average of a latinamerican city. Many things changed, especially when Alvaro Uribe became president. Now you can move around entire Medellín without being afraid, even at night. As well as in the whole country. So it´s important to change your mind on 2006 and not on 1990. yussef90 13:24, June 04, 2006 (CET)

I'm a bit baffled by Yussef here. You can't ignore the history of the city dude, that's what Wikipedia's all about. Medellin still has a lot of murders (STILL more dangerous than the city of Los Angeles in it's worst years - fact!) but it has gone down enormously which I have pointed out. Medellin's worst time was 1991 to 1993 and the vast majority of murders Escobar had nothing to do with anyway. I'm slightly surprised you say you can move around the whole of Medellin and Colombia at night without feeling afraid, I find that hard to believe. And don't tell me - you can't do that in Los Angeles or any number of other American cities?! *rolls eyes* Things are a lot better though I agree. Serbitar 05:33, June 20, 2006

I think the real problem is that people here are taking rather extreme views. Many people here are basically trying to act like nothing happened and now that escobar is gone people can walk around at any time of day. I love Colombia and I love Medellin but I'm not gonna try and act like it's a safe place. In '91 the city recorded the highest EVER murder rate of a city outside of a warzone. Obviously 15 years later its no disney land. The statement that Medellin is under the latin american average seems highly unlikely not only by sheer statistics but also by the high rate of unreported crimes. The city has many people who aren't even registered or don't have colombian papers even though they're colombian, so many crimes go unreported, namely robbery and murder. The comment about going around the city at any time is ridiculous. I know many colombians who wouldn't dare go near any of the hoods in medellin. The last time i went to pereira i was informed that a week before i had gotten there a man was killed while he was sitting on the corner down the block during midday. NOTE-the place where he was killed is literally one block away from the police station.Like i said, i love colombia alot but to tell flat out lies about the cities (especially medellin or cali) being safe is ridiculous. No U.S city has ever come close to medellin.And to give you an idea of the uncertainty of murder statistics for medellin, the lowest estimate i have read for '91 is around 5,000 while the highest was around 8,500(and this was from a newspaper article).

I just read that the murder rate in 2005 for Medellin was 103 per 100,000 people. and we all know that rate is probably a lot lower than it should be. anyone know how accurate that figure is? 24.116.54.170 00:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Main industrial center
Someone recently removed the remark that Medellín is Colombia's "main industrial center". Does someone have a citation one way or the other? -- Jmabel | Talk July 6, 2005 04:13 (UTC)

Medellin is Colombia's 3th main industrial center after Bogota and Cali -- Elpaisa1 (5 Dec 2005)

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English Copy Editing
I've begun copy editing the Medellín article, which wasn't written by a native speaker. I don't plan to change any of the meaning except to remove P.R. if it is too obvious. Evangeline (talk) 20:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I've finished copy editing this article. Evangeline (talk) 04:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia in Spanish states that Medellin is the second largest city, how come in English is the third largest? (Raniya 22:52, 9 December 2005 (UTC))

There seems to be a edit war between the wikipedians of Medellín against the other Colombian wikipedians on this, but it will be settled soon as there's a census going on in all Colombia. Sorry about my English.--Nicanor5 05:09, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey,there isn´t a war between the wikipedians of Medellín and the other Colombian wikipedians, it´s between the wikipedians from Medellín and Cali. I´m from Pereira and I support the truth that Medellín is the 2nd biggest! yussef90 14:17, 04 June 2006 (CET)

The truth is: Medellín as a municipality is the third after Bogotá and Cali, but as a metropolitan area is the 2nd because there are 10 cities in the same area totally united. Cali, on the other hand, has only Yumbo and Jamundí as metropolitan area. In terms of economics, Medellín has been known as an industrial city, mainly for the textile industry. --slayer 00:00, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I have added a homicide rate statistic, but looking at the talk page, it is obviously considerably underestimated, and I would welcome edits that suggested some more accurate statistics. Generally, I have tried to improve the tone in which the current assertions are written over part of the article, without greatly altering the assertions made.129.11.217.178 (talk) 22:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Main Industrial Center 2
Please help me adding information about the economy of medellin!! if you discussed facts before maybe you should put them in the article, it will not do any good if it stays in the discussion page when they've been answered... I'm going to add what I know about Medellin's economy but correct me if I'm wrong.. --Don Quijote&#39;s Sancho 05:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

population and comparissons with other colombian urban centers
A city, also called a downtown is the core of a metropolitan area. in this respect you can quote Milan having just 1.5 Million inhabitants while the city you find to your eyes is around 5 million inhabitants. How's that possible? simple, a modern city is composed by downtown areas, other adjacent urban areas and even sub-urban areas. I'm using the same data you are providing and the downtown has a 2+ million inhabitants... however, if you know medellin, you just require physically one step to go from Medellin municipality to itagui municipality or to bello monucipality and so with other municipalities within the metropolitan area...

So while refering to cities dimmensions, metropolitan areas more than downtowns are the factors to take in consideration... if not, you'd say rome is bigger than milan just comparing the downtowns... (just comparing two cities that are known and not to make use of clasical comparissons with LA or NY)...


 * Using metro area figures for city populations is misleading. Why not just say 3rd largest city and 2nd largest metropolitan area? This way is is not ambiguous. If the article is about the entire metropolitan area then we could emphasize the metro area figure. Otherwise, we can mention it but emphasize the administrative area figure. Is the article about the city or the entire metropolitan area? Polaron 22:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I think, we can go as you say... the issue is ranking the cities according to the population.... we can do it as you say third city and second metropolitan area (in fact medellin is a bigger urban area than cali because of the metropolitan area).... Notice in every city article the metropolitan area is worth the mention.... please make the change yourself but over the current revision, not simply reverting...


 * wikipedias's definition of metropolitan area: "A metropolitan area is a large population center consisting of a large city and its adjacent zone of influence, or of several neighboring cities or towns and adjoining areas, with one or more large cities serving as its hub or hubs".
 * If this definition is truth then the Cali's metropolitan area should have cities like Buga, Palmira, Yumbo, Jamundi, Guacari, Pradera, etc., even Puerto Tejada and Santander de Quilichao in the Cauca department, because a lot of people in those cities travel everyday to Cali to work, study, etc. The sum of the population of those cities is bigger than 3.4 million so you can't keep saying that Medellin's metropolitan area is bigger than Cali's.

Everybody knows that Cali has a metropolitan area the problem is that it has not been officially defined.


 * There is an official urban area definition which includes just the municipalities of Cali, Yumbo and Jamundi. There is some intervening rural territory between this area and some of the other areas you mentioned. The Medellin urban area is definitely larger than Cali's. Polaron 23:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well Polaron could you please give us a link with an official definition of the METROPOLITAN (not urban) AREA of Cali with it's cities? because wikipedia can not be based upon what you guess but on real facts and as far a I know there is not an official definition yet. Meanwhile you can not say that Medellin's metropolitan area is bigger than Cali's.


 * According to the sources cited in the article

for medellin population, for Cali's population, and having taking in consideration that a metropolitan area is an administrative area Clearly and legally defined (the description of the municipalities that are part of each metropolitan area can be found in )

we have:

this clearly shows the urban center defined by Valle de Aburra's Metropolitan area (Medellin's metropolitan area) is bigger than that from Cali.


 * The most authoritative sources I could find are this bulletin from the Cali goverment and this note regarding the jurisdiction of the Cali Metropolitan Police. DANE has a Cali-Yumbo metropolitan area but I couldn't find what municipalities they include. So it looks like the included municipalities are: Cali, Candelaria, Jamundí, La Cumbre, Vijes, Yumbo. The 2005 DANE estimate of the total population from here is 2,645,332. This is still definitely smaller than the official Valle De Aburra metropolitan area. Polaron 17:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

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Medellín is the second biggest in everything, very easy! yussef90 13:31, June 04, 2006 (CET)

"Dominant" ethnicities
In the section on ethnicities we had:This section is very misleading, it talks about Medellin being avery ethnically diverse city, when it is not, mostly made up of the same races mixing, and it not being a port any thing of the sort makes it hard to believe a large Middle eastern population. m² I dont think there was much foreign influence in the racial make up of medellin, i farly doubt 70% is white, more of a mestizo mix, and its widely known that medellin is made up of the same basic lineage, thus having the same last names, which is why i differ with the article stating there is a lof of foreing decendance, unlike Barranquilla were many families can trace there heritage to the middle east, italy, germany, china, etc just by the last names present, in Medellin the makeup is basically mestizo. "The ethnicities in Medellín are made up of Europeans, Amerindians, and some African slave descendants, with some influence of people from the Middle Eastern countries, that came in different migration waves and mixed with each other to form a very ethnically diverse society. The most dominant being Israel, Syria and Lebanon."

I had asked for citation on this, commenting "What I'm asking for here is citation on these three nationalities; for example, I really doubt there is a "dominant" Israeli presence in Medellín." A response came "There is no 'dominant presence', but there are Isrealy communities that join with Romanian and german jews that settled in medellin more than 60 years ago." I'm assuming "Isrealy" means to say "Israeli". German and Romanian Jews are not Middle Eastern (except in the sense of where their ancestors presumably came from 2,000 years ago; that sort of standard would make Germans and Hungarians Asian) or Israeli (in any sense). And "dominant" here is a very loaded wordThe current wording suggests (to me, at least) that the Israelis, Syrians and Lebanese somehow "dominate" the Europeans, Amerindians, and Africans; I doubt this is true, and it is a very odd thing to say without citation.

Barring citation to the contrary, I am changing this to:

"The ethnicities in Medellín are made up of Europeans, Amerindians, and some African slave descendants, with some influence of people from the Middle Eastern countries such as Israel, Syria and Lebanon. Descendants of a series of waves of immigration have mixed with each other to form a very ethnically diverse society."

Jmabel | Talk 05:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


 * There is not such thing as a Dominat ethnicity in the country. The settlers that have come on waves to the country during the last 5 centuries of colonialism of the continent, had blended with the race in an almost intraceble way. Germans, British, French, Turqs, Italians, Chinese, Spanions and many others races had blended with South-American Natives, without continue the languaje chain and adopting Spanish has their tonge. I am from this area of the country and I descendant of Spanish (Grandfather), Natives(Grandmother), French (Grandfmother) and Italian (Grandfather)sides. Then you can say that there is a dominat race in my country and that Mestizos which means a misture. Unless you consider dominant race the physiological characteristics that differenciates the habitants of an area of the country compared with the habitants of another area. As an example, you can compare the peoples from Bogota and Medelin, that looks, talks and behave in a different way, and this is due the different races that mixed with the natives of those territories centuries ago.

The article has misleading information on the ethnicities, it fails to mention any mixture with amerindians.

Foundation
I corrected the name of the Spanish conqueror that founded Medellin to Francisco Herrera y Campuzano, my source is the municipality's official website, www.medellin.gov.co. Prietojuane 02:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)prietojuane

Also, it says that the valley was 'discovered', how can it be discovered when there were already people living there?

"Second main city?"
The opening paragraph contains the statement:

"It is the second main city of the country, after Bogotá."

I am not sure what this means. Does it mean the second largest city? Or does it mean that it's a second capital of the country? Many languages identify a nation's capital city as a main city so maybe it was just translated literally. This should be fixed because it can be confusing in it's current description. SWik78 13:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

There is not second capital in colombia. Miguel 14 July 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.116.18.129 (talk) 20:53, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

NPOV?
I hope this is a work in progress because some of the revamp looks suspect to me, like a tourist brochure.

"The city is today a very safe place"

Hmm....I personally have a problem calling a city with a +30 per 100,000 murder rate safe. Would Chicago or Los Angeles be called "very safe"? Their murder rates are far lower than Medellín's. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that most of Medellín's murders are inflicted by the urban poor on one another instead of the highly structured cartel violence, even going back to the early 90's. Please forgive me if I have your intentions mixed up. Thank you very much.


 * "The city is today a very safe place": Of course this idea has to be read in context. "Safe place" means that you can visit it safely. Almost all modern cities have urban violence and 30 per 100,000 is considered "normal" under modern standards. Anyway, the sentence can be removed, since statistics speak alone. Thanks. --AL (talk) 07:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

"Of course this idea has to be read in context. "Safe place" means that you can visit it safely."

Yes but we are talking about the city of Medellín (all two million of it) rather than just Poblado LOL. I'm glad you removed it and, in all honesty and despite Medellín's astonishing decrease in intentional homicides (and it is astonishing), 30 per 100,000 is really not normal though perhaps Medellín is a special case. A place which had a murder rate of 184 per 100,000 just five years ago is not going to become safe overnight, though the reduction is utterly extraordinary and I still can't quite believe it. Power Society (talk) 08:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Referring to the crime section, is it right there's no mention of the paramilitaries and how they've had a major effect on reducing the cities' murder rate? Sarcastic Sid (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * if you have such an information with sources, you are welcome to edit the article accordingly. --AL (talk) 07:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Completely agree, the tone used in this article is not encyclopedic and violates WP:NPOV. It will need clean up or a complete rewrite. -- Zer0~Gravity (Roger - Out) 12:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What is such an "encyclopedic tone'" and where the current version is violating" the NPOV? Welcome to clean up, but the article has enough references to prove it is not violating the NPOV, at least since my point of view. Therefore, I will put attention to your clean since it should be according to the NPOV and respecting the current references. I am more concern for the English redaction. Most of the references have been translated from the Spanish version where it is a featured article and references have been proven real. --AL (talk) 07:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I know you should assume good faith, but some of the editing lately I actually find disturbing. In almost any other country in the world a murder rate of 40 per 100,000 (in fact it's 33 per 100,000 for 2006) would be considered very high. Gee I mean, what kind of mentality must someone have to not call that very high? I apologize if I'm getting on the wrong foot here but there seems to be an intentional campaign to almost cover up the city's problems such as the hopelessly flawed (and favourable) security comparison with Chicago and New York. I've noticed this on other Colombian pages in particular as well. Whether it's one or more individuals doing it I don't know.

Ignore me if I'm being paranoid. Power Society (talk) 13:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

--> I do not know if you are paranoid or no, but what is sad to me is that most observations point only to violence like there is an interest to keep the "image" of "the most violent city of the world" alived. It is like if you (I mean those interested in that point), just go to look the confirmation of what they think is Medellín, ignoring other facts like its importance not only in Colombia but in Latin America, a city of thinkers, universities, industry, poetry, festivals, commerce and so on. Violence actually is something very relative. A city can be very violent this summer or not. I live, for example, in a very violent city where you can not go alone in the night, however, nobody says that in its article, also because it has not the importance of Medellín. I am not a part of such campaign you say and I am the first to fight such campaign, but I can guest that such campaign is the consequence to the other campaign to show Medellín and Colombia as a violent-like Old West country (remember the rampant comment of the most British Sir Bob Ainsworth stating that we Colombians "are violent by nature" forgetting his hooligans?). For me you can concentrate in count numbers that actually we shoud not hide, since it will rise attention and promote more improvements, but let us work other proposals like that of showing Medellín as it is: a modern and Western city, so city as any city of Europe and North America and not a farm of chickens and that American image of an Old West gost town as it is presented by Hollywood. --Albeiror24 (talk) 16:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think you're being a wee bit anxious about how Medellín's portrayed. You really have little to fear. Although violence is normally the main thing that's mentioned about the place (which you can hardly blame as it was an incredibly violent city for a good 15 years...incredibly violent) far more column inches are given to crime in American cities no? If I lived in Chicago I'd be disgusted about how people go on about my city being so dangerous, yet it's nothing like as bad as Medellín was or still is. The difference with Chicago and elsewhere in the US compared to Medellín is the range of news stories you get apart from crime and murders, but believe me, far more people are aware of violence in Los Angeles, New York and New Orleans etc. than they are of Medellín. Gangster rap, the Hollywood industry (I can't remember seeing any films specifically related to crime in Medellín to be honest, if you could point them out I'd appreciate it - I can only think of 'Blow' which I haven't seen) and news reports are very America-centric when it comes to crime. I believe putting in Medellín 'violence' or 'murder rate' in Google then doing the same with many US cities would back me up. Look at the search results you get.

Is Sihanoukville truly dangerous?? I doubt it compares to Medellín up until around 5 years ago but it might be worse right now. Remember this article has to record the history as well as current goings-on. Many American cities have their own crime section on Wiki when really, if they have them, Medellín ought to as well.

I wasn't aware of the English guy's comment about Colombians but as far as English football hooligans go, and no offence, they rarely kill people which is a mighty big difference. Don't take it personally. :-) Of course there are reasons why Colombia and some of it's citizens are more violent than most other countries and the explanation may be very complex. Power Society (talk) 17:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

-->:) ok, maybe u need to study a little more about hooliganism or correct that article according with your statment "they rarely kill people", that I suspect u r relating to the Escobar case (by the way I checked the article and it is not updated with the reports of the Colombian police that concluded with the statment of the same killer, that the reason was not motivated by that mortal goal). Out of that case, the Colombian hooliganism is rather healthy in comparisson with the English and European one. Never heard events like that in Latin American... maybe the Football War in Central America. Maybe you have to see Clear and Present Danger with Harrison Ford and you will see how Hollywood portrayed Colombia: a violent chicken farm... well.. I should not be so Colombo-centralized, we should include everything from Mexico to Argentina. I am not opposed to include a section about violence in Medellín. If you check the history of editions, I did recently undo an anonimous editor who blanked the part in the introduction that refers to Pablo Escobar. History can not be hidden or deleted, that would be unwise and would help development in nothing. I do not take it also as personal and the first thing we have to do in order to improve our city and our country for the best, is to recognize our realities. The fact is that many outsiders think Colombia and Medellín as violent and compare it with Iraq or Africa and that is conceptually wrong (Note: I am not looking down Africa and Iraq). I call the attention to the other many elements that we have in Colombia out of violence, that are the things of hope for our own future. Even I do not know why we have to compare with Europe and North America. Our own philosophers like González called us to authenticiy and we should not be in a contents to be like Boston... waka... What I admire of Asia is that they do not want to become like Europe or North America - out their willing to get their Dollars and Euros :) -, but they want to be themselves in development. I dream a Medellín and a Colombia that keeping their identity as a Hispanic, Latin, Western, South American nation, can get peace and prosperity for everybody (and I am not in presidencial campaign :) Anyway, Power society, I see your editions and I find them seriuos and good. Thank you for that. I will ask you if it is prudent to remove the copy editing template. Is the redaction okay or it needs more work? The comparisson of the violence with Sihanoukville works as the same of the comparisson of the violence Medellín - Chicago. This city is smaller than my barrio in Medellín. In proportion, I consider many events here as violent, but of course, poor Cambodia is living now from tourism and we would damage its image if we do a section on violence for this small town with shining beaches. However, you are more safe in much districts of Medellín than here, moreover Medellín has more fun than this, but Sihanoukville has not its Harrison Ford. Just forget to do a section on violence on Sihanoukville. Nothing personal and tell me when you want to visit Medellín :D. --Albeiror24 (talk) 05:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

By "rarely kill people" I was talking about the crime cultures of England and Colombia in general of which there is a huge difference in lethality. Murder is a lot more common in Colombia yes? You can't compare English football hooligans with the bandas delincuentes or Medellín cartel. ;-)

I heard it was a bar brawl with the own goal thing? The claim it wasn't football-related seems darn strange considering the guy was shouting "goal" with each shot he pumped into poor Andres. He did shout "goal" yes? I haven't really confirmed that with myself and I could have it wrong so forgive me if I have. Since this horror happened I haven't really researched it.

Concerning Colombian football hooliganism, I heard 26 people were killed in football-related bar brawls in Colombia during the 1994 world cup? I haven't confirmed this again but I'm just asking if this is true. The reason you don't hear about football hooliganism in Latin America is what I was saying before, the media are more interested in your black-on-black violence in American cities - or the hooliganism in Europe. It doesn't mean those places are more violent. I'm quite big on facts and it may sound like I'm insensitive at times. Sorry about that.

I've seen Clear and Present danger but it was set in Bogotá and some rural areas wasn't it? That's one film about (mostly) Colombia. Maybe it's just me but most Hollywood crime movies I've seen are like Boyz n the Hood, Clockers, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Heat, Colors, New Jersey Drive, Casino...in fact nearly ALL of them are based in America! Can you recommend some Colombian ones that I may not be aware of? I like a good crime flick and as I said, I plan to see Blow sometime.

Anybody who compares Colombia to Iraq is a fool. I've seen people do this crazy Iraq comparison though mostly using New Orleans or South Africa. TBH I'm not aware of Sihanoukville being that dangerous. I'll look into it and if it is I'll make sure I put a crime section like I will with all the other dangerous cities on here which people are trying to sell as tourist destinations or places with beautiful women. I'm not really the person to ask about templates as I'm not familiar with using that aspect of the site. Probably keep it for now I should think. Power Society (talk) 17:22, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

--> #:-S I see you are more interested in violence than me. When I answered for u above, just I wanted to say is that going around violence should not be the only thing to underline in any article related to Colombia. As you see, we are doing a long discussion on this matter. Modestly I have seen cities from four continents, and urban violence has its place in every town: don't use the Metro of Paris by night I advance you, however the Metro of Medellín is the best of the world in safety, clean and nice... I can tell you, cause I have gone through many Metros from Latin America to Far East. If we are going to count killings in Colombia, we could do the same to USA, England and Cambodia. The unusual with Colombia is that it has a political crisis for 50 years that has its own history, something more complicated to understand by a simplistic analyzer like [[Bob Ainsworth|Bob]]. Neither in USA nor in England there are Paramilitary groups going around trying to "put in order the country" by killing the people (maybe Alcaida? IRA?) There is not a communist guerrilla treating the democracy (of course, USA could manage to keep it far away fighting it in other savage lands). I never have denied that Colombia has violence, however you suggested that the violence of Colombia is worst than the one of England and USA. mmm so here we have a philosophical problem. I would like to speak about violence in tiny Sihanoukville of beautiful beaches: girls being brought to prostitution, sometimes by their own parents, foreigners coming from "civilezed" and "little violent" countries like England and USA to buy underage for sex, hundred of children on the streets, dark powers sending out the farmers even by violence to posses their lands, kidnappings not mention on the news... of course, tourists are well protected... if these things are known, how they will come to let their dollars into this poor and corrupt economy? Tourists come to Cambodia to follow the beautiful path of tourism. The difference with Colombia is that you can follow there also the more developped path of tourism and even you will not meet paramilitaries and guerrillas in that path as well you will not meet the Cambodian realities here as a tourists, but the Colombian problems are not hidden, even if some personalities try to do so, inside and outside Colombia. I am aware of violence in my nation and for this reason we have to rescue Colombia putting in evidence that cultural, artistic, human and historical richness... It was not made the same by Europe and USA in their more deep crisis? Does not Colombia have the right to the same being a Western nation too? I think yes, and very much. --Albeiror24 (talk) 03:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Right, I'm getting quite angry with this guy and I apologize to other Wiki users and the etiquette thing on this site.

I never SAID violence should be the only thing in the article. Who said that?? Damn this guy's a nut. I've always been respectful and fair on this site but I don't like being accused of having some bias against whatever when reflecting facts and reality. I tried to smooth over the cracks with some light-hearted comments and now you're making vague allegations again. You've tried several TIMES to fudge the violence on the article and make the city look much safer than it is. DON'T compare the violence in the USA or Europe to Colombia. We could count the numbers and Colombia would come out a lot worse. You do realise that right? The reason I'm bringing up violent incidents in Colombia and querying you is because you're slandering Europe by making out English football hooligans are comparable to Medellín gangsters.

As far as your travels around the world and comparing safety to Medellín I'll take a second opinion on that thanks. No offence but you're not exactly believable. Paris? Metropolitan Medellín still has more murders than the whole of France so please, don't bad mouth Paris like that you're making yourself look silly. Again with the IRA, don't make them out to be as bad as the AUC and stop labelling Europeans and Americans paedophiles because it makes you feel better Al. Seriously.

I honestly don't see Colombia on the news much and when it is it's dominated by the FARC/AUC thing when they commit a small portion of murders in the country. Do the Google search like I suggested before, perhaps you don't want to know the results that come up huh? When putting in 'Cali crime' or 'Cali murders' for instance guess what mostly comes up? California and Los Angeles.

Violent news internationally tends to be dominated almost exclusively by the USA and Middle East. If you're going to contribute, please do so honestly and with fairness. Power Society (talk) 16:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:CITIES assessment
I've changed this article's assessment to C-class from Start-class. It's clearly no longer a start anymore, and developing some clear structure and order. Some of the language is still a little choppy in places, and could use a good copyedit by a native english speaker. The history section seems to be a little heavy on the subsections, and some of those could be combined. Some of the subsections overall could have shorter and more concise titles as well. There are a good number of photos in the article, which is good, but they seem to be cluttered over on the right side of the article, and should probably be placed a bit more evenly. Also, many of the image captions are very, and should be shortened as well. Photo captions, as a rule, shouldn't really introduce any new content to the article, and should be brief enough to simply describe the photo they're attached to. All photos should also be relevant to the article text and sections that they are placed in as well, with some sort of text in the main article discussing it.

A couple of wiki guidelines and such to help out: WP:LEAD for improving the lead section, WP:CITE for the formatting of citations, and WP:MOS for general manual of style information. While there's no specific guideline at WP:CITIES for South American cities, editors might find the US city guideline to have useful information nonetheless. It may also help to take a look at the Good Article criteria as well as the Featured Article criteria, for tips on moving towards those review/rating classifications. Dr. Cash (talk) 03:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not a native english speaker, but I tried to correct a few mistakes. I got to the "Medellin master plan" section, and will try to continue later. --Otherox (talk) 17:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know anything much about Medellín but I am a good native-English copy editor and will work on the article. I also took out stuff that was just P.R., which is pretty recognizable. Evangeline (talk) 20:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Long post in legal spanish
Insólito lo que se escucha en las calles de Medellín. Se dice que la Notaria 30 de Medellín (San Antonio de Prado)Texto en negrita se reubicara en el centro de Medellín. Acaso esta Notaría no fue creada exclusivamente para el corregimiento de San Antonio de Prado, de acuerdo a la Resolución No. 6560 de 28 de septiembre de 2007? Será que la política puede más que la razón de ser de la notaría como tal? Servir a la comunidad de San Antonio de Prado y no moverla a un sector completamente alejado por caprichos políticos!!! OJO, EN ESTA NOTARIA NO HAY NOTARIO EN PROPIEDAD!

'Resolución No. 6560 de 28 de septiembre de 2007.' Por la cual se determina la localización de unas notarías para la prestación del servicio público notarial.

LA SUPERINTENDENTE DE NOTARIADO Y REGISTRO En ejercicio de las facultades conferidas por el numeral 3º del artículo 13 del decreto 412 de 2007  e inciso 2 del  artículo 157 del decreto ley 960 de 1970, y CONSIDERANDO:

Que el Gobierno Nacional mediante Decretos  3488, 3489 y 3490 de 13 de septiembre de 2007, creó  las notarías  treinta (30) y treinta y una ( 31) del Círculo de Medellín, (Antioquia),  doce (12)  del Círculo de Barranquilla, (Atlántico) y Cuarta del Círculo de Santa Marta (Magdalena), respectivamente.

Que los mencionados Decretos autorizan a la Superintendencia para que mediante resolución determine la localización específica para el funcionamiento de las mencionadas notarías.

Que el inciso  2º del artículo 157 del Decreto Ley 960 de 1970, modificado por el artículo 44 del Decreto 2163 de 1970, expresa:  “(...)”.

” La Superintendencia de Notariado y Registro determinará la localización de las notarías en los círculos de primera y segunda categoría, de modo que  a los usuarios del mismo les sea posible utilizarlo en la forma más fácil y conveniente de acuerdo  con la extensión y característica de cada ciudad.

Que por lo tanto, la Superintendente de Notariado y Registro, acatando las disposiciones legales que la facultan para señalar la localización de las nuevas notarías y teniendo en cuenta las necesidades de cada una de las ciudades en que se crearon, además de las condiciones de accesibilidad, agilidad, y cercanía para la ciudadanía, R E S U E LV E:

ARTICULO PRIMERO. Las Notarías Treinta (30) y Treinta y Una ( 31) del Círculo de Medellín, (Antioquia), Doce (12)  del Círculo de Barranquilla, (Atlántico) y Cuarta del Círculo de Santa Marta (Magdalena), se ubicarán para la prestación del servicio,  en las siguientes localidades:

'''NOTARIA CIRCULO NOTARIAL LOCALIDAD NOTARIA TREINTA (30) MEDELLÍN (Antioquia) SAN ANTONIO DE PRADO''' NOTARIA TREINTA Y UNA (31) MEDELLÍN (Antioquia) TERMINAL DEL SUR COMUNA 15 NOTARIA DOCE (12) BARRANQUILLA (Atlántico) MURILLO SUR OCCIDENTE NOTARIA CUARTA (4) SANTA MARTA (Magdalena) El RODADERO  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.116.132.252 (talk) 03:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Medellin Adrianagudelo46 (talk) 23:14, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Grammar issues on Medellin article
Which is considered the correct way to write the words that in spanish has diacritic accent for this article in english (á,é,í,ó,ú instead of a,e,i,o,u)? This is important because in this article you can find many nouns that originally has diacritic accent, like Medellín, instead of Medellin, chocó instead of Choco, quindío instead of Quindio, etc. Alejocolon (talk) 16:38, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Something like Medellín should not be translated, because it's a proper noun (formal name of the city). I would think the same thing applies to other proper nouns as well. Not sure about the rest? Dr. Cash (talk) 18:15, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The accent should stay in all proper nouns and in any phrases that are rendered in spanish. pablo hablo. 20:26, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I am wondering about that. In the Spanish it shows where the stress would fall. No English speaker would understand that. I am thinking, for example, Salvador Dali. It may be better to cut it? SimonTrew (talk) 04:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

If you look at Salvador Dalí, you will see that the English WP article has his name spelt with the accent, which is the correct orthography for his native language. I assume that guidance appears somewhere in the manual of style, otherwise it would have been moved to Salvador Dali. (See also Déjà vu, Björk, etc pablo hablo. 11:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Medellinean
Is this really the accepted term in Colombia for an inhabitant? I would have thought that "Medellino" would be more likely.


 * Correct term is Medellinenses. pablo hablo. 12:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Travel brochure
I'm surprised that this article hasn't been put up for complete overhaul. It has all the makings of a travel brochure. It lacks references, citations, it's not written in a neutral tone, it uses a lot of weaseling, etc.

"Because of the pleasant springlike climate all year, Medellín is known as..." - is this relevant?

The "ethnographic" make-up just makes me laugh. Other than not having any reference at all, it just doesn't make any sense: White 70% and Mestizo 20%? It should be exactly the other way around. There's hardly anybody in Medellín (and all of Colombia for that matter) who isn't mixed, and it's even hard to determine for those who look more "European".

"The Paisa culture has a Spanish background, and is traditionally Catholic, entrepreneurial, hard-working, and famously hospitable."? Come on... this is obviously not Encyclopaedia-like.

What's the procedure for tagging this article with the warning signs that bad articles have to display at the top of the page? Smayorgat (talk) 12:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)smayorgat, 1 July 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smayorgat (talk • contribs) 12:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The procedure for adding those tags is - go ahead and do it; same as the procedure for improving the article. pablo hablo. 12:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I do agree some of the stuff in here seem brochureish. But I am not sure about the race do... I havent found any sources. The figures do seem to be arbitrary so for the time being I think it would be best to remove them if no one finds any sources to back it up. Regardless, I have to point out that the majority of people living in Medellin are clearly white, or light skinned. Caucassian, probably not. But white hispanic. I am not sure weather the percentage is quite as high as 70 percent, but the diference between white and meztiso can become blurry, and from a Colombian point of view, anyone with light skin is white. Even if they have features asociated with native Americans. So 70 percent, arbitrary as it may seem, doesn't sound all that unlikely. --201.233.76.36 (talk) 21:34, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Demographics
Who exactly are the indigenous peoples of what is now Medellin? The Paez people????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.247.172 (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory Information
Hello,

I don't know how to change things in Wikipedia, but I noticed that the entries for the cities of Medellin and Cali both mention that each is the second largest city of Columbia. Obviously, one is wrong and should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.167.208 (talk) 06:10, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Would someone check this edit?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Medell%C3%ADn&curid=340197&diff=343838583&oldid=343722209

Besides the bad English, I notice some uncited changes of facts. I have no idea whether they are corrections or the opposite, so I'm leaving this to someone more knowledgeable - Jmabel | Talk 05:17, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Medellin pictures montage
Is there anyway to get the montage of pictures from Medellin back?? I am sorry but those pictures were very good pictures and should not have been deleted. Whoever deleted them should contact the user who posted them to see if he has a way to get the copyright permission to post the pictures back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malejotm (talk • contribs) 21:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Language Issues
I changed the Spanish IPA pronunciation for the name of the city considering the dialectal difference of how the name should be pronounced in "standard" Spanish and how it is actually pronounced in the City of Medellín. Barring any prescriptivist notions by any over-zealous Spaniard, the pronunciation as it has been edited is the correct way that the citizens of the city pronounce and it should stay that way. Any socio-linguistic or historical-linguistic study of Medellín will confirm this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.216.162 (talk) 16:33, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There might be some dispute about the representation words with ll, but the current practice is to either transcribe it them with or, depending on if yeísmo is typical of the area in question.  Thus, in a sense, the transcription is local.  The guideline, Help:IPA for Spanish isn't super clear about this, but my understanding is that  is used to mean any non- realization of this diaphoneme.  If you have an issue with this practice, you might want to bring it up at Help talk:IPA for Spanish so that if you have a compelling case, we can adjust other Spanish transcriptions as well. — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]  16:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Airlines
Isn't 'VivaColombia's hub in Medellín? --Forich (talk) 04:58, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, they operate out of Rio Negro. -- Irn (talk) 18:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

cocaine
word cocaine does not even appear once in the entire article even though the harvesting, and exportation of the drug (or so it's argued) is known to have brought in most of the wealth for the city (infrastructure, etc). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.143.139 (talk) 17:55, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Aversion of WP:OBVIOUS
So far this is the only part in the entire article that even mentions the Medellín Cartel or Escobar: Medellín was once known as the most violent city in the world, a result of an urban war set off by the drug cartels at the end of the 1980s. As the home of the Medellín Cartel funded by Pablo Escobar, the city was victim of the terror caused by the war between the organization headed by Escobar, and competing organizations such as "El Cartel del Valle". However, after the death of Escobar, crime rates in the city have decreased dramatically. Both are unquestionably linked to the wealth and danger of this city and deserve more than just three short statements. I would argue that the cartel is more widely known than the city itself. This at least warrants a mention in the lead, and undoubtedly the economy section. We don't need to write about all cartels etc., but this is a special case. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 12:58, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Correct. This failure is a clear violation of WP:LEAD. If a topic deserves a heading or subheading, then it deserves short mention in the lead. I'm going to fix this one failure, and I expect others to start looking at all the other sections and ensuring that they too are mentioned. For tips, look at my essay: WP:CREATELEAD. -- BullRangifer (talk) 04:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Operation Orion
The article states that the intention of Operation Orion was to "to disband the urban militias of the FARC and the AUC." This is false. Not only has it been well documented, but when I lived in Medellin it was obvious to every Colombian, that Operation Orion was meant to disband only the FARC militias, and was carried out with the decisive collaboration of the AUC. And while the FARC were indeed disbanded, the AUC - locally led by Don Berna - had free reign in the city thereafter. 108.6.186.87 (talk) 16:53, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The most significant question for the purposes of Wikipedia is whether you have reliable sources attesting to this, not just what you believe to be 'obvious'. If it's that well documented, you should have no problem providing sources here, on the talk page, for discussion. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:38, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Iryna Harpy (User talk:Iryna Harpy) 11:05, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Operacion Orion was just for dismantle FARC, it was made with the support of AUC, in this article of revista Semmana you will see a picture taken for Jesus Abad Colorado, which an AUC leader is heading a national army squad. http://www.semana.com/nacion/articulo/la-foto-que-dejo-al-descubierto-los-desmanes-de-la-operacion-orion/438656-3. There is evidence too from the National Institute for Historical Memory.One of the AUC lider "Don Berna" in one of his free versions, explained how the AUC brought to the army intelligence,logistical and armed support http://www.centrodememoriahistorica.gov.co/noticias/noticias-cmh/trece-anos-de-operacion-orion.

--Alejanadro (talk) 11:15, 24 October 2017 (UTC).

External links modified
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Montage
This edit removing the montage image File:Montage de Medellín, julio de 2017.jpg was done by User:ControlCorV with the edit summary "Bad images". It was later undone by another user User:SeminoleNation.

ControlCorV, if you disagree that the images should be used, please make a constructive suggestion to use others. It is not very productive to just delete content even if you disagree with it. This montage was created to replace the old one which was partly a copyright violation. Still, in that sense, the new one retains a majority of the same landmarks and pictures. So let's discuss here if anyone believes it's time for a change, or for any other reason.

Thanks, seb26 (talk) 15:34, 31 July 2017 (UTC)


 * @Seb26 Sorry. 2603:8000:1D00:ED00:913:6E03:A960:D84D (talk) 10:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304000520/http://www.uni-weimar.de/architektur/raum/doktoranden/sanchez_Migracion_forzada_urbanizacion_en_Colombia.pdf to http://www.uni-weimar.de/architektur/raum/doktoranden/sanchez_Migracion_forzada_urbanizacion_en_Colombia.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080430044447/http://decolombia.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=35 to http://www.decolombia.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=35
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110718010709/http://54pesos.org/2010/05/26/la-guerra-contra-las-drogas-y-el-verdadero-aprendizaje-del-milagro-de-medellin/ to http://54pesos.org/2010/05/26/la-guerra-contra-las-drogas-y-el-verdadero-aprendizaje-del-milagro-de-medellin/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:27, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Formatting help
I added the local pronunciation of the name of Medellín. I would like help formatting it in the way that the standard Spanish pronunciation was formatted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User.name.here (talk • contribs) 01:43, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Escobar
Pablo Escobar is barely mentioned in this entire article, buried like 30 paragraphs down, and cocaine isn't mentioned at all. I know the city is not that bad now but Wikipedia is about documenting the history - ALL of it. Escobar should be mentioned in the initial four paragraphs off the top. This article as it is now is a joke. 76.11.2.233 (talk) 14:31, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Afro-american Non-Military-1309.34
Otra Pedo 2603:8000:1D00:ED00:913:6E03:A960:D84D (talk) 10:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

"Paisa" is not an official Demonym
Paisa is short for Paisano Astuarianu, and it is by no means, nor by any stretch of the imagination, an official demonym or gentilic for the inhabitants of that city. The term Paisa, as it stands, is nothing but a street language artifact created unofficially by the inhabitants of some part of the Andes region in Colombia to identify themselves during the settlement immigrations from spain, and later on with the internal migrations in the Andes region due to the advent of the coffee growing industry.

The only Demonym applicable is "Medellinense" or "Antioqueño" when referring to the peoples of Antioquia.181.51.32.116 (talk) 05:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Writing and Literacy in the Digital Age
— Assignment last updated by Fernandaswiki (talk) 00:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

New Article idea
I am interested in creating an article for Communa 13, noticing how there isn't one already. It has a rich history that is worth having a page for. Alecprofit (talk) 02:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Look to this sandbox for more information. The neighborhood really has a lot of history that should be included and displayed for the world to see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alecprofit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alecprofit (talk • contribs) 03:13, 2 October 2023 (UTC)