Talk:Medical director

This
This article is full of jargon and is only of relevance to the United States. It should be cleaned up to reflect this, or deleted. --Daveb 06:07, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Expansion

 * this article needs expansion badly!!! it is paramount to EMS in general Medicellis (talk) 00:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Expansion and a complete rewrite (actually when a page is in this state, it's just a 'write'...lol) is currently underway. The intent is to take this to at least a 'B' standard.  Jump in and help if you can.  Please don't delete anything.  If you feel the need to remove something from the article content please paste it here where we can find it.  Decent and appropriate photos to illustrate would also be quite helpful.  Emrgmgmtca (talk) 11:04, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

A related topic that probably belongs here, is the role of a medical director in search and rescue. In much of the world SAR is separate from EMS, and in some parts of the world (most notably the US and Canada) it is a volunteer civilian service. Medical directors may provide decision support and guidance to SAR field teams via cell phone or radio. --Una Smith (talk) 16:15, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Clean up
--WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:17, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * "Notable medical directors" wants at least half a sentence each on why these people are notable.
 * A paragraph about other uses (that "medical director" is a generic term) would be appropriate. We don't want the reader to leave this article thinking that medical directors are unique to EMS.
 * Please kill the many extra blank lines at the end of the various paragraphs.

Disambiguation
How about moving this article to Medical director (emergency medicine), to make way for Medical director to be made a disambiguation page or an article explaining in general the job title "Medical Director"? Below are some of the many Wikipedia articles that use the title. --Una Smith (talk) 16:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Bruce Keogh
 * Punyamurtula Kishore
 * Henry Cotton (doctor)
 * Grant Stevens (doctor)
 * Michael Irwin
 * Eduard Verhagen
 * Lewis Leavitt
 * Dennis Fowler
 * Boris Shimeliovich
 * Jonathan Wright (physician)


 * I think it would be best to keep just one article for medical director. After all, the role of a medical director is basically the same whether for EMS or any other hospital department - to supervise the medical actions of providers who are not licensed to practice medicine.  What differs are the methods in which medical control is provided (online vs. offline, etc).  This article currently has more information on the role of and history of medical control, rather than the actual role of the medical director of an organization/department.  Much of this information is not directly relevant to the position, but provides a background about models of EMS care.  Only the last paragraph of each of the "Models of care" subsections actually describe the function of a medical director in each model.  The rest of the information might be better suited for the articles EMS in x country (if it is not already there).  I don't think each model of care should be described in such detail in this article.  The current article could easily be reworded to describe all medical directors, and have the "Models of care" section renamed to something mentioning EMS in the heading.  --Scott Alter 23:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Scott Alter has a point about the content of this article not corresponding well with its title. I like the content, especially the compare and contrast approach in one article rather than dispersing the content to many parallel articles, but perhaps this content belongs in another article?  --Una Smith (talk) 07:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have no objection to this move to an EMS medical director title at all. As far as the comparing and contrasting, the duties of a medical director vary dramatically, depending on what type of EMS delivery model they are operating in.  I think that the model information provided gives sufficient context for the information about the role within that model.  Without that context, the reader would be left asking "Why does this change so significantly?"  By the way Scott Alter, there are many, many EMS systems in which the practitioners are individually licensed, and even autonomous practitioners in their own right, but which still have medical directors.  It's not just about the provision of supervision.  In some models, the role has absolute authority, while in others, it is more of a mentor than anything else.  There are also lots of situations in which a medical director may exist, but the role is nothing like that in an EMS system.  I don't think that a disambiguation page would be a bad idea.  That's part of the reason why I added that note in the intro...to eliminate confusion.  I think that this proposed move is an excellent idea. Emrgmgmtca (talk) 15:14, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Any progress here? Any further ideas?  I suppose as an alternative, you could have a single article divided by field:
 * ==History==
 * ==Medical directors in EMS==
 * ==Medical directors in hospitals==
 * ==Medical directors in prisons==
 * ==Medical directors in skilled nursing facilities==
 * ==Medical directors in whatever else==
 * and provide each with appropriate subsections. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * As I said, this article was originally part of an initiative by the Emergency Medicine and EMS task force, and the article was aimed at fulfilling the needs of that group. I agree with you that the term is pretty ambiguous as it stands.  The truth is that it is used so broadly (the ones you've suggested are legitimate, as are sports franchises, individual sporting events, insurance companies, some universities, and the list goes on) that I would challenge you to ever complete a single generic article that addressed all of the places where that particular title gets used.  In addition, the article would become so long that the average reader would eventually struggle to find the specific information that they were looking for.  Eventually, and I have already seen this happen in my short time here...someone will decide that it is too unweildy and will chop out all of the information that people have worked so hard to put in, leaving a nice, sterile, generic article about 'medical directors'.  As an alternative, as I've suggested before, change the title of this article to 'EMS Medical Director', and let those with an interest in all of these other applications write the type of articles about them that wikireaders actually want to see.  Just my thoughts.Emrgmgmtca (talk) 12:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Please do not auto direct the topic of Medical Director to this one, as.....
MD is a software - http://www.hcn.net.au/md3/ --222.64.214.234 (talk) 07:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Is Medical Director (program) worthy of note? If so, write a page on it and we could link it at the top. However, the term "medical director" is most often associated with a physician who is in charge of the medical care provided in some sort of group, for example hospital units, EMS systems, dialysis clinics, etc. JPINFV (talk) 19:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

--222.64.31.191 (talk) 07:32, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

German EMS
There is partly false information in the description of german EMS, starting with the sentence "In the German version of the model, paramedics (called Rettungsassistents) do exist": The old "non-physicians aren't allowed to do invasive treatment" results from the times before the profession Rettungsassistent came into effect 1989 and clearly is outdated, at least legally (however, not in the mind of some old whiners and especially a lot of EMS managers). I admit, it's a good reason for some managers to deny proper pay and on the other hand for some lesser motivated co-workers to deny professional/legal responsibility. Too bad, they don't read the law or follow the recent legal discussions. --84.152.20.233 (talk) 21:03, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * "Medical control is on-line, immediate, and direct.": there is no medical control in that sense that anyone on the scene has to contact someone from a backoffice. This basically is totally unknown. In the german system the provider on scene has all to do by himself and with his own decisions. Calling dispatch to request another unit or getting a target clinic is something else.
 * "The training of the Rettungsassistent is comparable to that of many North American paramedics, but they are normally severely limited in their scope of practice. Paramedics may practice their advanced life support skills at all times when the physician with whom they work is physically present, but are sharply restricted in what they may do in his absence. [3] In most cases, under German law, unless an immediately life-threatening or potentially debilitating emergency is present, many such individuals are limited to BLS skills only, or to severely restricted ALS skills.[4]": This is widely believed, sometimes even by providers, but not true. German "Rettungsassistenten-Gesetz" (Paramedic law) clearly defines the role in §3 as someone who gives "life saving support to emergency patients, establish transportation conditions of such patients, survey vital body functions and generally transport patients with appropriate care" (rough translation). The only restriction given in this article is that german paramedics have the duty to hand the patient over to a physician (call one to scene or bring the patient to a physician), thus the paramedics may not give definitive care by themselves (this would be a violation of "Heilpraktikergesetz", practioner law). The mentioned life saving support is almost all, what is needed, does the least harm or beeing the least invasive as possible, the paramedic is trained in and is able to do (certifications help to approve this) - and the patient doesn't deny it (includes the duty to inform the patient). Much the same with any other medical profession in germany, including physicians. There are other restrictions by law, such as the handling of certain narcotic drugs falling in the scope of "Betäubungsmittelgesetz" (law about narcotic drugs), which is allowed for physicians only.

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The title "Medical Director" is not most commonly associated with Emergency Medical Services
The article gives off the strong impression that Medical Director is most commonly associated with Emergency Medical Services (EMS) as this is discussed in detail in the first paragraph. Also, EMS services are discussed in extensive details in the following paragraphs further cementing the initial impression. In this author's experience this is misleading; other more general usages are far more common. As the article itself notes the title Medical Director exists in largely a variety of other settings.

Examples of more common uses of this term include senior physicians in board level hospital/organization management (https://improvement.nhs.uk/documents/1891/Aspiring_MDs_jw_FINAL_FOR_WEB_251017.pdf and https://study.com/articles/Medical_Director_Responsibilities_Requirements_and_Career_Info.html), within private industry/pharma (https://www.nonclinicalcareers.com/what-does-a-medical-director-in-a-pharmaceutical-company-typically-do/), or as a near-synonym for chief-medical officer (https://careertrend.com/facts-6756505-job-description-chief-medical-officer.html).

The article should therefore be rewritten to reflect the general nature of this term and giving space to the various meanings according common usage - where management of EMS is one, but not particularly prominent, usage of this term.