Talk:Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub

Name too long
Why not rename this article into "sclerophyll forest"? -- Pixeltoo 10:12, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree. This was the name given to the Major Habitat Type in the Global 200 by the WWF, and "Sclerophyll forest" is a more general term. However, there seems to be a conflict over whether "shrub" should be "scrub"; see my move request.  SCH ZMO  ✍ 20:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * "Mediterranean forests, woodlands and shrub" and "sclerophyll forest" overlap, but are not truly synonymous; Sclerophyll forests are a common vegetation type in the Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and shrub biome, but the biome also includes conifer forests, woodlands, savannas, grasslands, shrublands, and scrublands. Sclerophyll forests can also be found in other biomes, like Tropical and subtropical dry broadleaf forests. Tom Radulovich 01:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Temperate woodlands
I wish they'd make a topic the"Temperate Woodlands Biome." -- nepegg89 8:46, 7 December 2005 (EST)


 * See Temperate broadleaf and mixed forests or Temperate coniferous forests.  SCH ZMO  ✍ 20:12, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Article move to Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub
In its website, the WWF refers to this Major Habitat Type as "Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub" - note "scrub" not "shrub". I wasn't sure, however, if the "shrub" form is a misspelling or just an alternate name, and which name has more precedence.  SCH ZMO  ✍ 21:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


 * WWF is pretty inconsistent with both the shrub/scrub and capitalization: check out this page: . Since this biome contains both shrublands (chaparral, maquis, matorral, fynbos, etc.) and scrublands (coastal sage scrub, garrigue, strandveld, etc.), neither name is incorrect. Using "shrub" rather than "scrub" is a bit more consistent with their other biomes, like Temperate grasslands, savannas, and shrublands or Deserts and xeric shrublands. My suggestion would be to keep things simple and leave the article where it is, but make Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub redirect to it. Tom Radulovich 01:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Not moved. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 17:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Mediterranean vegetation
What about renaming this article to Mediterranean vegetation? It's much simpler. Any possible distinction between the different terms can be explained in the article itself. --Eleassar my talk 15:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Qualification for cool-summer type
Summer drought, and not summer heat, is the common thread of Mediterranean climates and not summer heat -- particularly along some cool sea coasts. Although the cool-summer Mediterranean climate covers relatively little of the Earth's landmass, it has some significant cities whose natural vegetation fits the Mediterranean category, and not something else that might have some similarities of climate (maritime temperate and high-altitude monsoon climates, the former often abutting and the latter separated as a rule by long distances from cool-summer Mediterranean climates. Climates of San Francisco and Mexico City are similar due to small temperature range but have opposite distributions of rainfall.

In any event even the cool-summer Mediterranean biomes have plant life that has evolved to meet the stresses of severe summer droughts.--Paul from Michigan (talk) 11:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Eucalyptus?!?!?!? Scrubland in Aliso Canyon???
how can you consider eucalyptus a mediterranean tree, if it is typical of australia???????? Scrubland in Aliso Canyon= i see a semidesertic hill in california (how can you consider it mediterranean vegetation???)

please erase those photos

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.39.119.123 (talk) 21:07, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

This comment reveals the ambiguity inherent in 'mediterranean-type' outside of the actual mediterranean basin (also that its author did not read the article). But this is the terminology that we have, and i see no way around it. Same discussion as around the name of the page itself. I think we need to make clear in this article why we have these terms, and how the biome relates to the actual mediterranean basin, the climate classification, and to ecology / biogeography of those regions.--Bpinab (talk) 03:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Mediterranean-Type Ecosystems
I have created a redirect from 'Mediterranean-Type Ecosystems'. But I am pre-empting a discussion on this subject.

'Mediterranean-Type Ecosystems' is a generic name for a biome which is used by ecologists and conservation managers. It could be used, for instance, to refer to historic or future, as well as modern, distributions of the biome. It is quite a clunky expression, and often shortened to 'MTE's'

In contrast, 'Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub' is the name for the current distribution of the biome as defined by wwf (here I'll say 'Mfws'). It is a horribly clunky expression and I have never seen it written, and doubt if it is ever heard spoken, outside of WWF's biome project.

'Mfws' cannot be used to generalise about features of the biome - eg to discuss the extent that parts of south eastern Australia might have MTE-type (careful!) attributes (where forests, woodlands and scrub communities dominate which are fire-prone, experience predicable summer droughts, and share many traits, ecosystems and taxa with Mfws of South or south west Australia). Similarly, the 'California chaparral and woodlands' has many ecosystems which do not fit well with the MTE concept. I am not here making an argument that we should include or exclude these ecoystems from the biome: WWF has done great work defining ecoregios and biomes as they have, we all recognise that environmental heterogeneity makes the task complex, boundaries have to go somewhere, and we have solid precedents with strict definitions to work with (eg Koppen), and it is all subjective anyway. All I am saying is that 'Mfws' is about the biome that exists at the present as defined cartographically by WWF, whereas MTEs are about generalising the ecology and behaviour of the ecosystem represented; perhaps there is place for both. I can see Mfws nesting within MTE, but not the other way around.

I propose an introductory paragraph (much shorter than this) describing the relationship between 'Mediterranean Basin', MTE, Mfws and 'Mediterranean Climate'. But perhaps there is merit in an MTE page?

Bpinab (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Article title "...scrubs", "...scrub", or something else?
I just reverted the move of this article to Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrubs. cited a map available at. However, I don't see any sources on that map. The original biome was named by the WWF at

Now, "official name" is not actually a criterion for selecting Wikipedia titles. WP:TITLE is the policy, with five criteria listed at WP:CRITERIA. I doubt that any variant of "Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and scrub" is Recognizable or Natural: it's jargon that the WWF invented. Before we move the article, let's discuss possible alternatives, then select the best according to WP:CRITERIA. — hike395 (talk) 07:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Click on the map to see the list of biomes :) It was the only place I could actually find the official list from WWF.
 * Technically, the name lacks the Oxford comma, but I love the Oxford comma...

EDIT: I clicked your link, and thought about it, I agree "scrub" is better. Plural would be for the word "shrub", i.e. "shrubs". Thanks for undoing the change(s) :) LightProof1995 (talk) 07:45, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Headline
Mediterranean climate environments is mainly defined by shrubs, so why would you call the headliner Mediterranean forests woodland and scrub? דולב חולב (talk) 15:14, 22 January 2024 (UTC)