Talk:Megan Huntsman child murders

Requested move 19 August 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Megan Huntsman child murders. Participants in the discussion came to a consensus that an event-focused title featuring Huntsman's name would be an ideal compromise, in order to meet both WP:BLP1E and WP:RECOGNIZABILITY. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:09, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Megan Huntsman → ? – The article is about the event rather than the person (WP:SCOPE). Needs to be renamed to avoid violating WP:BLP1E, as this person is only notable for the crime of killing her children. –– FormalDude   talk   21:01, 19 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:18, 26 August 2022 (UTC)  — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 06:08, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Notified: WT:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WT:WikiProject Biography, WT:WikiProject Death. –– FormalDude  talk   16:52, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. User:RoySmith just closed the Deletion review hours ago, after over a month of discussing the issue, deciding that there was not a consensus to move it and reverted that decision away from the destination you propose. Now you are, in part, proposing exactly what they decided there was no consensus to do. I already made the case about how six separate murders over years cannot be classified as "one event" which does make Murder of XXX person impossible, as it is six murders. And The six murders by Megan Huntsman seem equally weird as an event title. Nobody will be searching for this under "Pleasant Grove", the murderer's name is the key thing here. It's impossible to find an obvious event name because it's six events. I recommend you just leave it like it is. We've been through AfD, we've been through deletion review, this third attempt to change it feels like re-litigating the same process over and over and I suggest we stop. CT55555 (talk) 00:38, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * RoySmith specifically stated in their closure of the deletion review that Since there was no real discussion of a rename, there's no prejudice against starting a rename discussion. –– FormalDude   talk   01:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Discussing changing the name, I think that's ok. Presumably some variation of her name into an event style. Although I think that's impossible for the reasons I stated above. Proposing it to move it to the exact location that was reverted in the deletion review, seems unreasonable. CT55555 (talk) 02:42, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, I changed the proposal to just be a discussion. What about Megan Huntsman child murders? –– FormalDude   talk   03:35, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I am somewhere between neutral and mild support, I certainly do not object to that. I could not think of a good event title, but that does work well. CT55555 (talk) 03:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The article as it is right now is clearly about the person - "She is a serial killer... Early life... Murders..." etc. If it were moved, I think the content would need to be changed. Fredlesaltique (talk) 12:22, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It's really not about the person, it's about the event. I've reworded the article slightly to make that more clear. Everything about Huntsman is in the context of the murders. –– FormalDude   talk   18:56, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: This is a tricky one. The BLP1E argument is strong, but on the other hand we have hundreds of murder-related articles that are framed as biographies (see Category:American people convicted of murder for examples), so WP:CONSISTENT arguably counsels against the move. Similar RMs have reached inconsistent results: compare Talk:Juan David Ortiz with Talk:Guy Turcotte killings. I don't have a firm opinion about whether this article should be moved under current policies and guidelines, but I do think the broader question here would benefit from some sort of global-consensus-level discussion (maybe at WT:AT or WP:VPP) since this is an issue that affects a great many articles and that doesn't have a clear answer at the moment. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 03:45, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Another comment: there's an essay at WP:MURDEROF discussing this issue. It generally recommends against articles focused on the perpetrator, but it makes an exception for serial killers on the grounds that BIO1E doesn't apply since multiple murders are multiple events. Not sure I agree, but worth considering. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:35, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I do agree, and argued extensively in the AfD, that six murders are not one event. I continue to find it extraordinary that people argue that six murders over a period of years are one event. CT55555 (talk) 22:25, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Even if it's not one event, the notability is exclusively from the events, and the article title should reflect that, not a biography. –– FormalDude  (talk)  22:31, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I actually think it's fine/normal to have biographies that are compiled from multiple events. Although I always said I'm not opposed to Megan Huntsman child murders. The requirement for it to be an event article diminishes once we accept she is notable for lots of events. CT55555 (talk) 22:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I am fine with Megan Huntsman child murders as a compromise. –– FormalDude  (talk)  23:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I am also, likewise, agreeable to this as a compromise. CT55555 (talk) 00:18, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Consider it's been relisted twice now, are we safe to move it? Or would you rather someone uninvolved close this? –– FormalDude  (talk)  01:00, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you should do, maybe an uninvolved person should close it. But if you close it and move it, I won't object, I have more important things to worry about than prolonging this. CT55555 (talk) 01:04, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Serial killer label?
@FormalDude I think it's ok to call her a serial killer. She killed many people, she meets the definition. But in case you want sources:
 * 1) https://www.nbcnews.com/better/wellness/how-could-she-mother-accused-deaths-infants-n80276 (serial infanticide)
 * 2) https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=57818420&itype=CMSID
 * 3) https://www.fox13now.com/2015/05/29/parole-hearing-in-2064-for-mom-convicted-of-killing-6-babies

Definition: https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/serial+killer CT55555 (talk) 15:42, 20 August 2022 (UTC)


 * the NBC source. –– FormalDude   talk   16:42, 20 August 2022 (UTC)