Talk:Melanie (singer)

Untitled
Other Melanie credits include music for the television series "Beauty and the Beast" and a track on The 6ths' "Hyacinths and Thistles" entitled, "I've Got New York," released in 2000. Although she is viewed by many as the definitive "flower child," she identifies herself as a Libertarian rather than a Liberal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjstrock (talk • contribs) 20:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Shine On
I have a CD titled Melanie / Shine On - The Latest and Greatest. It's produced by Melanie safka, Peter Schekeryk & Rolf Wetzel for PLH (Partner Licencing GmbH, Hamburg) 2000. I will add it to the albums. If it doesn't belong there, please change as appropriate. Hoverfish 15:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Brand New Key lyrics
This article and the Brand New Key‎ article seem to disagree with each other about how innocent the lyrics are... AnonMoos 06:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

See the discussion at Talk:Brand_New_Key. Rammer (talk) 02:26, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Sacrifice for her Career or Sacrifice her Career
The sentence In 1973 Melanie started to retreat from the spotlight to begin a family; one of many sacrifices she made for her career. doesn't make a lot of sense to me. A sacrifice for her family, sure, a sacrifice of her career, OK, but surely not a "sacrifice for her career. jiHymas@himivest.com 216.191.217.90 17:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Did you already know ...
In Russian, her surname has even a meaning! safka means food, or breakfast! xD -andy 92.227.75.133 (talk) 18:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Melanie Safka → Melanie (singer) — She is professionally known as Melanie and the article name should reflect this. Cjc13 (talk) 11:11, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose This is already adequately dealt with by a redirect.  What's the problem?  Skinsmoke (talk) 15:45, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * One problem is that she ends up being listed under S, so many people who do not know her surname can not find her in categories or think that it is someone else. Cjc13 (talk) 17:57, 11 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Strongly Oppose Although she is *usually* only known as Melanie, she is also often referred to as Melanie Safka.  And believe it or not there are actually a number of other female singers who are usually only known as Melanie ( not including two of the Spice Girls ) so this only confuses things further. Afterwriting (talk) 16:04, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not aware of any other singer having had a hit single credited as simply "Melanie". For instance, the 2 Mels in the Spice Girls use "Mel B" and "Melanie C". Cjc13 (talk) 17:57, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There have been quite a few other singers who have also released recordings only under the name of "Melanie" - a fact that causes considerable confusion. Afterwriting (talk) 10:49, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you find one instance of a different singer being credited as simply "Melanie"? All cases I have come across, they have been credited differently, eg Mel B, Melanie C etc. A search on Amazon music shows her dominant use of the name. Cjc13 (talk) 18:35, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There are, as I said, quite a few of them, but finding links isn't easy for obvious reasons - here, however, is a link to an album by one of them:
 * http://www.amazon.de/Deinetwegen-Melanie/dp/B002N2GDCC/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1271405101&sr=1-15 Afterwriting (talk) 08:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If links are difficult to find, it suggests they are fairly obscure. It appears to be the only album of Melanie Künstler and the page does give her surname, compare that to this page. Cjc13 (talk) 14:23, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't know why you keep stating the obvious - as if I wasn't somehow already aware of it - that Melanie Safka is the most well-known singer usually known as Melanie. Neither you or I know how "obscure" or otherwise these other Melanies are - and I'm not sure this is all that relevant anyway.  They may be quite well-known in some places for all we know and may also be entitled to a Wikipedia article.  The fact is that they exist.  Also, the page only gives the other Melanie's surname in order to distinguish her - the album itself only calls her Melanie.  Many similar webpages also add "Safka" for the same sort of reason. See my other comments below. Afterwriting (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Support per the guideline WP:NCP: "The name used most often to refer to a person in reliable sources is generally the one that should be used as the article title, even if it is not their 'real' name." From the discussion above, there seems to be no disagreement that the name used most often to refer to this person is simply "Melanie." Propaniac (talk) 15:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

The key word in the article name policy is "generally". In this case I believe there is an obvious exception to the general policy as Melanie is also often known as Melanie Safka - whereas people such as Madonna are nearly always known only by their first name. For instance, "Melanie Safka" is the name by which her songwriting is credited on her recordings and songbooks. Melanie isn't just a "singer", she is also an established songwriter and as such she is virtually always referred to as "Melanie Safka" instead of "Melanie" - and her songs have been recorded by many different artists. The suggestion that the article be renamed may be well-intentioned but it is seriously flawed in this instance. Afterwriting (talk) 16:45, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of singers who are credited differently as songwriters from how they are as performers and many singers are also songwriters, but I think she is principally known as a singer or performer. See for instance the article Brand New Key which shows the front cover of her single or similarly for her album Gather Me, both showing her credited as simply Melanie. Cjc13 (talk) 18:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The important point, however, is that Melanie is frequently known both as "Melanie" and "Melanie Safka". Whilst as a singer she has traditionally been known just as "Melanie" she is often also known by her full name of "Melanie Safka" and her own official website's title is "Melanie Safka - The Official Website".  So her "generally known" name is not therefore as simple or straightforward as Enya's or Madonna's. Afterwriting (talk) 10:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It is used in the title of the website but if you look at the home page the name used on the page is simply Melanie and the web address does not include her surname. I suspect her full name is used in the title to help with internet searches given the potential dangers of entering a female name in an internet search. She is playing a festival in August and is listed as simply Melanie. Cjc13 (talk) 14:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The essential point is that she is commonly known *both* as "Melanie" *and* "Melanie Safka". No one is disputing that she is mostly known only as "Melanie" - we all know that.  But it is not probably not insignificant that the http://www.melaniesafka.net domain also directs to her official website.  The fact is that she uses both names professionally - *not* just "Melanie".  I appreciate that it is all somewhat complex but I am not yet convinced that an article name change is appropriate.  I would prefer that the current redirect from Melanie (singer) remains but even this isn't without possible disambiguation problems. Afterwriting (talk) 15:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * My point is that many people would know her only as "Melanie" and might think that "Melanie Safka" was a different person. Cjc13 (talk) 10:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)


 * If any people only know her as "Melanie" and might think that "Melanie Safka" was a different person then they will likely be very confused that her MySpace, Blog, Twitter and Facebook accounts are all in the name of Melanie Safka - and that her official website title also uses this name. Add to this the numerous fan websites and YouTube videos that also refer to her as Melanie Safka.  If Melanie herself thinks that it's important to use her full name on her official internet sites then this adds considerable weight to the argument for using her full name with this article - it's not as if "Melanie" is some sort of nickname in the way that "Sting" is.  For what it's worth I checked Beyonce's article and it is named "Beyonce Knowles" with a redirect from "Beyonce" so there are similar issues with other artists who are known by both their first name and their full names - the point is that both Melanie and Beyonce are both "regularly" known by and referred to by both their names, whereas some other artists such as Madonna and Enya are virtually always only known by their first names. Afterwriting (talk) 15:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Beyonce rename discussion was no consensus, so no conclusion can be drawn from that. It is not surprising that on MySpace, Twitter, Facebook etc another Melanie registered the name first so she had to use a different name, the same thing happened to Enya on MySpace for instance. Personally I would file her under M for Melanie rather than S for Safka. Cjc13 (talk) 19:01, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Psychotherapy Song
John Greenway recorded and appears to have composed in part The Psychotherapy Song. Pete Peterson wrote in a discussion at The Digital Tradition on 30 July 1999, "I have, on vinyl, an old record by John Greenway, author of American folksongs of Protest-- recorded about 1960 or so on which The Psychotherapy Song can be found. He claims to have written the last three verses and gotten the rest from the proverbial Man in the Bar." Note that the album mentioned is not American Folksongs of Protest itself. If I can identify the recording, I'll add it to the article. Hieronymus Illinensis (talk) 08:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

In any event, Melanie first recorded it at an early stage of her career (not later on, as suggested by the heading in the article). The version I have is on a "Golden Hour" compilation, which gives the date as 1972. IXIA (talk) 16:56, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Not surprising, seeing that she only wrote a couple of songs that made the radio, and only 1 number one "hit". Many more successful performers have been labelled  "One-Hit Wonders".  IMHO, having lived through that period, I would most definitely include her in that category.  Very few people ever heard any of her songs, other than "Brand New Key".  See the "Singles" list.  98.194.39.86 (talk) 04:53, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

HP Print Commercial
I just came across this artist because her song Brand New Key was used in one of the latest HP printer commercials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReTg9o_eNc8) In my opinion, that's important, timely, and relevant enough to allow for an add somewhere in this article. Neutralityisimportant (talk) 02:43, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Early Life
Born Feb. 3, 1947 in Queens, N.Y. to a Russian-Ukrainian father and an Italian mother who Sang in jazz clubs, Melanie was a self-professed loner who divided her college years between a drama career and playing Greenwich Village coffeehouses. At age 20, she met music publisher-producer Schekeryk, who got her a deal with Columbia Records that lasted for two singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.77.30.78 (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Melanie doubtless inherited her musical instincts from her mother of whom she says, "She was a very pure singer; she would hold a note and not whine off like I do." Melanie's musical side flowered and became her sole interest while she was at school which caused her to be regarded rather as an outsider, especially as in addition, her mode of dress was a little different to the rest of her class.

This isolation had the effect of making Melanie more absorbed in her music and more determined than ever to be different in both dress and behaviour. "School was the time when things started getting bad for me. I didn't have a happy time. It was OK in the low grades. but after that it was pretty difficult. I didn't have an easy time with other people, I couldn't get on with them. I was very much alone and the other kids didn't seem to want to know me, so I spent the time I was by myself writing, playing, singing and falling in love with everybody."

Mama Mama, written when she was 15, conveys all the anguish of her school life. It also conveys something of her attitude and regard for her mother. "She's in all my songs. I haven't got a kind of mother complex. It just happens. It must seem like I'm very dependent on her and always asking her questions. Really I'm very independent unless there's a lot of people around me and I don't have to be."

The first signs of this independence made themselves clear when Melanie ran away from high school in New Jersey. "We had moved from New York to New Jersey, you see, and there it was even worse at school. People in the town were afraid of someone different someone who showed signs of individuality was considered a nut, Even the teachers thought I was strange. One terrible one on my first day said, 'You wear your hair like a witch'. They sent me to the school psychologist!"

Melanie Safka, then an aspiring teen actress rather than a singer, mistakenly entered the office of aspiring music producer, Ukraine-born Peter Schekeryk, one day, and thus began a working relationship and a long marriage with plenty of ups and downs but always enduring.

But as the 1970s went on and a record collaboration with legendary producer Ahmet Ertegun went south for reasons never revealed (the 1976 album, PHOTOGRAPH, withdrawn quickly from sale in spite of good reviews, was finally released as a 2 CD set just a few years ago) Melanie and Peter turned more towards concerts in Europe, where she can still command a substantial audience even at age 63.

The couple even tried rock-inspired rhythms, but the next time Melanie's style made an impression in the USA was in the 1980s, when she wrote a song for the cult hit show BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, "The Last Time I Loved Forever", and won an Emmy.

The couple had three children, daughters Leilah and Jeordie, and son Beau Jarred, the youngest.

All the children became involved in the music business to some extent, performing with their mother, providing back-up vocals, instruments, and even, in the late 1990s, briefly forming their own band they called "Safka" in her honor. Jeordie and Beau have done solo albums.

The family, when not touring together, had homes ranging from New Jersey to Florida to Nashville, Tennessee.

The couple once owned and operated a restaurant in Florida reflecting Melanie's interest in natural foods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.77.30.78 (talk) 12:24, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Ford Mustang
I recall a 70's TV spot where they sing "Look what we've done to our Mustang", to the tune of "What have they done to my song Ma". Does anyone have any details? Ironically, I think they really did mess up the Mustang at that point, so it was appropriate to choose that song.

Look What They've Done To My Song, Ma
In the article, the title is quoted as "What have they done to my song", then it says that Ray Charles sang it as "Look What They've Done To My Song, Ma". But Melanie sang it this way too. Am I missing something? X10 (talk) 16:01, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The title in the 'Cover versions' section of the article and in the Candles in the Rain article is correct, i.e., "What Have They Done to My Song Ma". The title in the intro of this article, "Look What They've Done to My Song, Ma" is incorrect.  Ray Charles may have recorded it under a different name.  Different artists using different names for the same song is not uncommon.  You're not missing anything.  I will fix the article.


 * For reference, I am basing the correct title name on US album artwork. The 1970 US LP back cover and media label here have "What Have They Done to My Song Ma".  The gatefold looks to be the same but it is not clear.  The gatefold can be seen better in the Canadian LP here.  The 1973 US LP reissue here and US CD reissue here are the same so if it was a misprint in the original LP it should have been fixed in the later reissues.Wantnot (talk) 23:04, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Libertarianism
The link to the liberarianism statement doesn't work, can't be found on the net. I don't want to remove the reference, but also I don't know what to replace it with. X10 (talk) 17:14, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Voice
The article lacks any discussion of the nature of her voice.Kdammers (talk) 06:32, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 13 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 06:56, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Melanie Safka → Melanie (singer) – A return of the unsuccessful RM, above, from seven-and-a-half years ago (April 2010). Subject appears within the all-inclusive List of one-word stage names, but direct examples would be such singers as Aaliyah, Adele, Anitta (singer), Basia, Beyoncé, Björk, Cher, Dalida, Drake (musician), Fergie (singer), Lorde, Lulu (singer), Madonna (entertainer), Nicole (Chilean singer), Nicole (German singer), Pink (singer), Selena, Sting (musician), etc. As for the two entries under the article's section header "External links", her website makes no mention of the surname "Safka" within the biographical section or anywhere else, while the other entry, although titled "A Guide to the Recordings of Melanie Safka", depicts all of subject's record covers, none of which contains "Safka". &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 23:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment the first thing that pops into the eye in the nom there is the continuing treating Madonna as a circus juggler and vaudeville comic rather than use the "s" word as books, magazines and newspapers do. But yes (singer) would do here. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:56, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

I think that it would be a good change. The "Safka" is so obscure that it impedes a search for the article.  North8000  (talk) 05:08, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Closing comment:There has been some movement since the last RM:
 * 01:13, 5 November 2016‎ Unreal7 (talk | contribs | block)‎ m . . (43,611 bytes) (0)‎ . . (Unreal7 moved page Melanie Safka to Melanie (singer) over redirect: Usually known as just Melanie)''
 * 00:10, 12 November 2016‎ Afterwriting (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (44 bytes) (+44)‎ . . (Afterwriting moved page Melanie (singer) to Melanie Safka over redirect: No consensus for change.)''

But consensus can change, and there is support above and no opposition, so despite the support not being in the format of a formal !vote I'm seeing a new consensus. Andrewa (talk) 06:56, 21 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Scientology
according to her own twitter account, melanie is a scientologist, yet it was deleted almost as soon as it was added. https://twitter.com/melaniesafka/status/974354482636050432 she also won a scientology award, yet that milestone achievement was also immediately removed. https://www.pr.com/press-release/624339 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.82.156 (talk) 23:37, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If it has some basis, it should be covered. And I'm not one to split hairs / wiki-lawyer against sourcing, but this is a BLP, and the source given was a vague Scientology press release that didn't even claim that she was there or accepted it, and what you added here was a content-free couple of sentences from twitter. North8000 (talk) 11:47, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

ok fine (by 71.181.82.156)

"I don't eat animals"
The song "I don't eat animals" was her MOST memorable song for many of that generation. The article fails to mention that or Melanie's vegetarian diet. MaynardClark (talk) 04:32, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Article name
I have changed the article name back to Melanie Safka as per MOS:BIOGRAPHY (at MOS:SURNAME) where it says:

"For people well known by one-word names, nicknames, or pseudonyms, but who often also use their legal names professionally—e.g., musician/actors André Benjamin ("André 3000"), Jennifer Lopez ("J.Lo"); doctor/broadcaster Drew Pinsky ("Dr. Drew")—use the legal surname."

As Melanie also frequently uses "Melanie Safka" as her professional name (as is clear from her website and her various social media accounts) then this style principle applies to this article. Therefore "Safka" should usually also replace "Melanie" throughout the article. Quizical (talk) 22:59, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You should not have unilaterally done that without discussion. The change to Melanie (singer) was made after a discussion and mini-consensus and has been the status quo for 3 years.  Using only your interpretation of a borderline case under a MOS guideline case as a basis to rename an article against the decision from the discussion, without discussion. North8000 (talk) 01:11, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This isn't simply my "interpretation" about a "borderline case". The issue was already much more adequately discussed some years ago, long before the more recent discussion and so-called "consensus" which was very inadequate. The simple fact, which cannot be denied, is that Melanie is also known professionally as Melanie Safka as many sources, including her own (such as her official website domain, her social media accounts and her published books) more than adequately testify, so the MOS guideline on the matter clearly applies to this article so it should be called "Melanie Safka" with "Melanie (singer)" as a redirect, not the other way around. Quizical (talk) 11:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * IMO you should have opened a discussion, and those would be your arguments for renaming the article in that discussion. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:28, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm going from memory, but I think that for her entire "highly visible" period she only used the name Melanie.North8000 (talk) 16:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

MOS violations
You may want to read Manual of Style. You've been editing in violation of the MOS, in particular MOS:LQ and MOS:ELLIPSIS. GA-RT-22 (talk) 04:11, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also see MOS:POPMUSIC: Per the overall MOS guidance to use logical quotation, punctuation should be placed outside the quotation marks (title formatting) of songs: Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited album includes the songs "Like a Rolling Stone", "Ballad of a Thin Man", and "Desolation Row". Of course, if the song title itself contains punctuation, it goes inside: "Help!" by the Beatles was featured in both a film and an album. And such punctuation certainly does not belong inside piped wikilinks.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   09:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Any rules on running list items separated by semi-colons? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the direction to the MOS: punctuation. I was, indeed, not following the Wikipedia conventions.
 * I may back away from punctuation editing. My internal editor from years of tech writing and professoring bristle at some of these.
 * I do appreciate the pointing out of VIOLATIONS, however. Thanks again. SuzQ! (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, the bristlecone editor... "among the longest-lived life forms on Wikipedia." Martinevans123 (talk) 13:22, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Source for quote about being a libertarian
Hi, the article includes a quote: "I'm a total Libertarian, and I am not a Democrat, a Socialist, or a Republican.". However, the source for that quote is a permanent dead-link. I think the obituary in The Telegraph has a very similar quote, judging by the Google search preview, but I can't be sure, as I do not have a subscription. Could someone please check and attempt to verify. Here's the citation:



Thanks a lot.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   16:38, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Okay, the page source reads: Politically, she identified as a libertarian – "I am not a Democrat, a Socialist, or a Republican," she said.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   16:52, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Meher Baba
Meher Baba is no longer mentioned in this article. Should he be? The Category:Followers of Meher Baba is still there. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:44, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I would say so, given reliable sources. He was an early influence on her.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   18:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have re-added a brief mention, using an existing source. But this could be expanded. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:32, 6 February 2024 (UTC)