Talk:Melanie Lewy

thanks from WiR Victuallers (talk) 12:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Condescending Terms
"in somewhat condescending terms" according to whom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zamadatix (talk • contribs) 14:15, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * the source is given; read it.--Smerus (talk) 17:26, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sacchi didn't understand the German text of the review. These terms are totally praiseful, not condescending at all. Sacchi's book is rife with glaring errors, because she was unable to decipher and understand the sources. Melanie Parish Alvars - for instance - didn't have to sell her clothes for her husband's funeral, she had to sell some of his clothes to cover the medical bills.--Suessmayr (talk) 10:41, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE
An editor has edited the lead, to remove the word 'Jewish', claiming that this trangresses WP:UNDUE. As this is a fact supported by cited sources, and as it it not as far as I am aware anywhere contested, it does not appear to me to be against WP:UNDUE, which I have read very carefully. (I quote: "If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts"). I have therefore reinstated the word. I place the matter here for discussion.--Smerus (talk) 14:54, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * UNDUE is about giving undue weight to a fact about a person, which doesn't impact on their notability - "Undue weight can be given in several ways, including [...] prominence of placement". I'm not doubting she was Jewish, I'm simply saying it does not belong in the lede. GiantSnowman 11:45, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Music historians, and historians of Judaism, might venture a different opinion. Lewy was one of a generation of Jewish musicians who, entering the music profession in the first half of the nineteenth century, not only left a mark on music but also brought about a changed perspective of Jews as a whole as a 'musical people'. Lewy's own family, mentioned in the article,  were also part of this process - as were Felix Mendelssohn, Fanny Mendelssohn, Ignaz Moscheles, Giacomo Meyerbeer, Fromental Halévy, Charles-Valentin Alkan and a host of others; many of these have their Jewish origins mentioned in their leads and this has not given rise to any comment on WP (even where the articles have become GAs or FAs). Lewy was Austrian but she was also Jewish and both of these are relevant to her context. I would therefore disagree that her origins do not impact on her notability.--Smerus (talk) 12:21, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - and there's no indication that her being Jewish is of sufficient worth to merit being mentioned in the lede. See also Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard. GiantSnowman 12:32, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * User:GiantSnowman has unreasonably reverted once more, I see, and without explanation. So far there is my opinion that says the content is justified, and I have supplied arguments to support this. GiantSnowman has supplied references to two other comments which I believe to be not appropriate in this case; one to an essay which is not a WP policy or guideline, the other to a discussion relating to BLPs. In the absence of further comments, there is no consensus for the change he has made. -Smerus (talk) 09:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You didn't reply for 3 days. I have given clear policy-based reasons for my edit which reflects longstanding consensus. You have provided no counter-argument other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. You also continually blindly revert, for example restoring old dashes. Why? GiantSnowman 19:21, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * What has 3 days got to do with it? For clarification, my opinion remains the same unless I write to the contrary here on the talk page. It is in fact your argument which is grounded in WP:IDONTLIKEIT, and it is not (to date) supported any evidence related to this article, (or, for that matter, supported by anyone else). There is thus no consensus for change on the principal issue and therefore the article should stand as it is. I however concede the dash with pleasure. Best, Smerus (talk) 19:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The burden is on you to demonstrate that her Jewishness is significant enough to be mentioned in the lede - particularly given the article says her family converted to Roman Catholicism when she was 11?! GiantSnowman 20:47, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * "The Jews ... are an ethnoreligious group" (as WP tells us), and therefore the conversion of her family is irrelevant. She was born Jewish and her family was also born Jewish - Jews form an ethnic grouping, not only a religious confession. If you do not fully understand the issues involved here, I suggest you learn a bit more about them before you pontificate on them. The burden in this matter is on you to demonstrate that a change is necessary and appropriate. It is not appropriate for you simply singlehandedly edit back the text when your point is contested and has no support. And - if I may say so - it's especially inappropriate when I see that you are an administrator and should be setting standards for politeness and procedure.--Smerus (talk) 13:37, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Again, you say that hew Jewishness is important - but fail to say why, or back it up with sources. GiantSnowman 14:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Jewish harpist
The whole discussion is totally moot. Louise Lewy was born Jewish on 27 July 1823 and on 24 June 1835 - together with her parents and her three brothers - she converted to Catholicism and received her Christian name Melanie. Hence I will remove the note "Jewish harpist" and replace it with "of Jewish birth". After all, the Nuremberg Laws are not valid anymore. Once a person becomes Catholic, it isn't a Jew anymore.--Suessmayr (talk) 16:52, 19 August 2018 (UTC)