Talk:Melinda French Gates/Archive 1

Wikileaks inclusion / deletion
I've changed wording in the Wikileaks-sourced Clinton item, but question whether hacked emails reported as unconfirmed warrant any inclusion in an encyclopedia, and am considering deleting the reference. Thoughts? AHampton (talk) 17:30, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree. The source doesn't even say Clinton considered the Gateses, only that their names were added to the list by unnamed aides. GA-RT-22 (talk) 02:53, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Removed a sentence about the Microsoft Bob demo being the "hardest thing"
Reading through the Melinda Gate's page, I came across the following sentence which stopped me with a "clunk":

"Gates later recalled a software demonstration of Microsoft Bob was "one of the hardest things I've ever done", despite the program being a commercial failure."

This account is not what the referenced article indicated. The actual situation was, "Getting ready for that demo was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done."

It was the prep for the demo and not the actual demo that was the hardest thing. Whereupon I thought, "So?". During a career, there are a lot of challenges. This "story" is about how product failure is a chance to learn, but prep for a demo for an app that was dead-on-arrival being one of Melinda's career milestones is not creditable.

This "hardest" thing is not particularly notable. The sentence is not well structured with the comma splicing of a phrase to an OK sentence. The comma spliced phrase tack-on doesn't follow logically. It does not add in any useful way to Melinda's career narrative. Based on this, there is no compelling reason to justify the work to restructure it. If someone wishes to reintroduce this factoid, it needs to be better explained and better integrated into the overall narrative.

I don't intend to create a hagiography but for the reasons I give, I will (or already have) delete this sentence.

Osomite hablemos  18:37, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Signature
I don't know how/if it should be added to the article but her signature can be found at the website of her new book. If you think it should be added, feel free to add it. svg link — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paditor (talk • contribs) 20:13, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

VP for whom?
Gates and her husband were suggested as possible vice-presidential picks in the 2016 United States presidential election...
 * Doesn't say which party. Valetude (talk) 22:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Divorce removed form lede
I took the divorce out of the lede; she is not defined by her marriage. --- Possibly (talk) 22:06, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you! She isn't even divorced at all, not yet.--FeralOink (talk) 11:58, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

STOP saying Melinda Gates is divorced
Melinda and Bill Gates announced their intention to divorce yesterday. They are ending their marriage, they said. They are NOT divorced at the present time. It is reasonable to note in the infobox and in the article that Melinda Gates is separated from Bill, although even that is not confirmed. In some US states, "separated" has a specific legal meaning. I don't know if it is applicable to the state of Washington.

Regardless, I DO know that they are not divorced. Editors have been disruptively and incorrectly adding content to this BLP and the Bill Gates BLP, that the couple is divorced. That is incorrect. Please don't keep doing this. You know who you are.--FeralOink (talk) 11:57, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Name 'Melinda French Gates' and not 'Melinda Ann Gates'?
According to several articles   and their divorce papers, Melinda's legal name is Melinda French Gates. I think the article should show as such as per WP:MOSBIO. --Zimbabweed (talk) 13:58, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Support (although I wouldn't cite TMZ, per WP:TMZ). Here's a reliable source that notes the name change: . ― Tartan357  Talk 00:10, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * NYT has also begun using "Melinda French Gates". Alyo  (chat·edits) 21:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * As has the Guardian. Also support. --Bangalamania (talk) 01:17, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I suspect her full name is Melinda Ann French Gates but it would be helpful if we had a source for that. Note that MOS:FULLNAME calls for the full name, not the name by which the subject is most commonly known, for first mention. GA-RT-22 (talk) 01:25, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * From the NY Times (2021 May 8): "“I thought we were going to kill each other,” Ms. French Gates, as she now prefers to be known, wrote in her book." —Alex (Ashill &#124; talk &#124; contribs) 00:21, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

So I went ahead and changed this a few days ago, per consensus above. But having re-read MOS:NEE I have now also put her birth name in the first sentence (it's already given in the "Early life" section). GA-RT-22 (talk) 18:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)


 * ( was your edit summary talking about the note? Because I thought that was just about not changing the surname.) I would think her full name is "Melinda Ann French Gates". All of the sources cited above* call her "Melinda French Gates" in the same way that a source would have previously referred to her as "Melinda Gates" – they do not say that she legally dropped her middle name. *The only possible argument against that I could see are the divorce documents at the dam.tmz.com source, if you were to say that they are legal documents and thus must show the full legal name, however they refer to Bill as "William H. Gates III" but we know his legal middle name is not "H." but "Henry". The lead should say "Melinda Ann French Gates" unless a source states she legally dropped her middle name. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 23:29, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The consensus right now is for "Melinda French Gates". That can change, but requires discussion on the talk page. GA-RT-22 (talk) 23:40, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Which do you prefer for the lead?
 * Melinda French Gates (born Melinda Ann French; August 15, 1964)
 * Melinda Ann French Gates (born August 15, 1964)

Note there isn't a source saying she legally dropped her middle name. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 23:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Personally, I prefer the former. But I'm not bothered either way. --Bangalamania (talk) 07:57, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Were I starting this article from scratch I would write it with the former but as Bangalamania says, I'm fine with either. Alyo  (chat·edits) 17:15, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

in regards to this edit of yours, I don't believe that document is proof she dropped her middle name. It does not specifically ask for a full/legal name, and it refers to Bill as "William H. Gates III" even though his middle name is "Henry". That hasn't been interpreted as him changing his middle name to "H." Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 17:10, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * , it looks to me like the most concrete information we have right now. Upon searching, I have not been able to find "Melinda Ann French Gates". If you have an alternate source, I welcome it. ― Tartan357  Talk 17:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I prefer Melinda French Gates as that is what is written on the King County Superior Court filings. cookie monster  (2020)  755  18:40, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

DBE postnominal
WP:POSTNOM directs the use of postnominals only for people who are closely associated (e.g. by citizenship or residence) with the issuing country. Gates has never been either within a British crown territory and "DBE" should be omitted from the lead and the infobox. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 05:23, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Concur - this has been removed before. I've made the change. The recognition, along with others, is covered adequately in the body of the article.  Kuru   (talk)  13:34, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Heiress
Heiress? Who died? GA-RT-22 (talk) 11:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Removed for now. Sam Sailor 20:24, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Melinda vs French
Per MOS:SURNAME she should be called "French", not "Melinda", in the Early life section. I'm just not sure how to handle the transition to Gates, since we don't mention the marriage until much later in the article. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:26, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry i must place the argument more than one month later. But i agrees that the surname must be called as "French" instead of "French Gates" per consistency with early life section. doesn't know the actual surname of Melinda French Gates, he then requested to WP:RFPP for the article itself. 180.243.211.196 (talk) 00:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * See the section directly below. This is settled. Her surname before her marriage was French, so of course that's what is used in the early life section. ― Tartan357  Talk 00:10, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

French Gates versus French
The WP:BURDEN is on the editor introducing the change. But, for example, https://www.wsj.com/articles/bill-gates-and-melinda-french-gates-explore-changes-to-foundation-11622146703 reads: May 27, 2021 — Ms. French Gates, through her company Pivotal Ventures [etc.] El_C 00:37, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Why is she being referred to as French Gates? French (her birth surname) is her middle name and Gates (her married surname) is her surname. Business insider says she isn't legally reverting to her maiden name and will continue to use the Gates name so shouldn't she just be referred to Gates? Kind of like Christine Blasey Ford just being referred to as Ford?  cookie monster  (2020)  755  18:39, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sources, such as the Wall Street Journal article linked above, use "Ms. French Gates". ― Tartan357  Talk 19:35, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * And the New York Times explains why: "...Ms. French Gates, as she now prefers to be known, wrote in her book." She is entitled to decide what she wants her name to be, now that she is divorced, and apparently she has decided to use a double last name. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2021 (UTC)