Talk:Melodic death metal

A more detailed mention of the relationship between Gothenburg Metal and Melodic Metalcore
plz add more information exploring the relationship between the above two genres.

1)The first american band that started mixing gothenburg with hardcore?

2)How Melodic Metalcore in turn Influenced the New sound of InFlames?

3)which band was more influential "At the Gates" or "Old In Flames"?

4)What triggered the beginning of this new style of metal in the first place? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.22.83 (talk) 15:20, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Black Metal's influence on Melodic Death Metal
The intro to the article says "Melodic death metal (also referred to as melodeath) is a subgenre of death metal which combines the melody of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal with the intensity of death metal." People always seem to ignore the obvious influence that Black Metal has had on Melodic Death Metal. Now, I'm expecting many of you will deny this - discussions of musical genres are always tainted by subjectivity. For this reason I have written a comprehensive argument below, divided into two main points:

1) A friend once e-mailed me a metal family tree, which was drawn up by Eric LeStrade. I believe that this guy actually has a Phd in metal. The tree was copyright 2000-2001 and is the most comprehensive metal family tree that I have ever seen (far better than the one by Sam Dunn). The original tree from 2000-2001 was located at: http://membres.lycos.fr/ericlestrade/.

I'm not sure if it is still there - I can't understand French. A more recent, but less comprehensive copy of the tree is visible at: orizuka.free.fr/index.php/dlm/4/15.

Both trees show Melodic Death Metal as evolving from three genres - Old School Swedish Death Metal, NWOBHM and Black Metal. Like I said, this guy has studied metal at the highest level possible. He is definitely a reputable source.

2) If you're still confused then check out the material for yourself. While higher pitched thrash vocals are sometimes heard in early Death Metal (e.g. Death), the vast majority of normal Death Metal has deep or mid pitched vocals (e.g. Cannibal Corpse, Six Feet Under, Entombed), while Black Metal has mid or high pitched vocals (e.g. Dissection, Mayhem, Rotting Christ). Now listen to At The Gates' "Terminal Spirit Disease" album. Those vocals are definitely higher pitched than many Black Metal bands. And it's not just the vocals either. Later At The Gates, early Dark Tranquillity and early Dissection all have similar beautiful-yet-ugly melodic stylings. This sound incorporates melodic leads, tremolo picking and prominent use of the snare drum (amongst other things). Over time Black Metal and Melodic Death Metal have grown apart, but today's Melodic Death bands still tend to employ medium-high pitched vocals.

Having said this, I think Black Metal deserves a mention in this article, even if it's only a brief mention in the introductory sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.217.143 (talk) 13:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Not to agree or disagree, but I see no mention of MeloDeath in the first article (in the English version, at least, though I may be reading it wrong) and the second link doesn't work. Just to let you know.

== Scandinavian death metal, Gothenburg Metal, and Melodic Death Metal are all the same thing and should be merged. It's ridiculous to give melodic death bands a different name simply because they're from scandinavia.==
 * Well, imo, we need a regional referance to Gothenburg metal not just Melodic Metal. It is as important as Florida Death or Bay Area Thrash.  I do agree that Scandivian Death isn't as a tightly defined and regional.  Yet the Gothenburg Sound did define early Melodic Death as much as Bay Area defined early Thrash. Atechi23:36 24 June 2006
 * No, this is a ridiculous notion. Melodic Death Metal (or Gothenburg Death Metal) is not the same thing as Scandinavian Death Metal (or Stockholm Death Metal). Listen to Dismember, Entombed and Grave then listen to Dark Tranquillity, In Flames and Arch Enemy, the former are more Death Metal with Melody rather than full blown Melodic Death Metal and there are clear differences in arangements and compositional styles. Of course it should be stressed that these styles only derive their names from their point of origin and are not geographicaly exclusive, for instance Fleshcrawl are a good example of Stockholm Death Metal inspite of being German wheras Detonation are certainly a Gothenburg death Metal band even though they are from Holland.


 * If anything, the Gothenburg scene (and the style that later solidified from bands emulating that scene) should get its own section within the page, but it's a sub-genre of a sub-genre, at best. Really, it's a time and a place more than a style in its own right.  --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Both those article are too short. Just because those genres sound slightly different doesn't mean they need their own page. Masonpw (talk) 17:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Old-School Gothenburg Metal is very different from what we currently hear from these so-called contemporary Melodic Death Metal bands. Most of the pioneering MDM bands save Dark Tranquillity are now defunct or no longer play Gothenburg Metal. Examples of true Gothenburg metal are At the Gates' Terminal Spirit Disease and SotS (in contrast to their earlier avant-garde baroque death metal), In Flames' Lunar Strain right up to Clayman, All of Dark Tranquillity, and a few other less-well known bands like Edge of Sanity, Gardenian, Insomnium, Dimension Zero and so on. Other releases such as Carcass' Heartwork and Dissection's Reinkaos are also indeed Gothenburg Metal, and although some of their work does indeed precede the Big Three in chronology, I would throw caution to the winds before labelling them as the genre's "true pioneers", as if it were really important in the first place. For one they were one-off releases that were a dramatic change in style from their classic sounds, and two they did not popularise the genre as widely as the Big Three have done. Someone should give them mention but edit all those extraneous histories out that have just been added in. Examples of MDM today can be uhh...Disharmonia Mundi, Sonic Syndicate, Nightrage's more recent work, Soilwork, etc. Generally almost any band that claims to play authentic MDM today is false save Dark Tranquillity. If you listen to the genre a lot you'll understand where I am coming from. Written 3rd April 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Negi3 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal
They clearly flow in the metalcore vein for their fairly simple hardcore-fused song structures and breakdowns; while they have opened for bands that could easily pass as death metal or melodic death metal, that does not make them one. This band being on the list makes equal sense as about a zillion other bands being on the list that sound just like them (As I Lay Dying, The Red Chord, The Red Death, Between The Eyes of the Dead, etc.) but obviously belong in the metalcore/hardcore category. Danteferno 12:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

This is a very old discussion of what label to put on a given band; this is certainly non-trivial for most bands especially in the crossover styles and it's typically hated by the bands themself. There just isn't a checklist that you can use to determine which band belongs in what category and hence this discussion will always be POV. Spearhead 16:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see why The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal. Ok they have hardcore song structures, but why does that make them not melodic death?  What about bands like Light This City, and some Deceased (especially As The Wierd Travel On)?  DanielAbrams

- Black Dahlia is definitely a band that would consider themselves melodic death, but they do seem to have some metalcorey influences. I would say Black Dahlia is way more melodic death metal than "metalcore". You can see the difinitive structure of simple melodic death, especially in their Unhallowed album.

-The Black Dahlia Murder Is far from metalcore in many obvious ways-They DONT utilize breakdowns in their music, They DO incorporate melodic and harmonious riffing and solos, they have lots of drum blasting (blast beats if you will), no accenting or harmonious vocals (As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, Killswitch Engage, etc.), and their lyrical basis is structured around many Death Metal related aspects such as violence, gore, death, disease, necrophillia, etc. Dispute if you must, but I insist that The Black Dahlia Murder be referenced as a Melodic Death Metal Band based on their sound, song structure, and lyrical content. -Black Dahlia is NOT Metalcore. Sure they look like Metalcore/Hardcore kids but thats not what they play. And you should probobly listen to them a little more before you say thing like "they use breakdowns" because they don't. They ARE Melodic Death. -I very much agree with the last 2. People try to label them as metalcore only because they happen to have a large "scene" following. I don't mind that too much, because of the plain fact they destroy.

The Black Dahlia Murder is not Metalcore. How can you even say that! They don't use breakdowns period. Are you stupid. They are one of the most hardcore metal bands today and you try to label them under Metalcore. That band was an influece to me all of my life from when I first heard them. They are one of the reasons I started my band in the first place. also, our first cd should come out in 2012. BDM's music sounds like "slaugher of the soul" album by the At the Gates.Then there are bands like Unearth that sound like Inflames.Heartcrusher (talk) 07:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Opeth
Any reason they (weren't) listed?


 * Because they have absolutely nothing to do with melodic death metal
 * Melodic death metal (often referred to as melodeath) is generally considered an offshoot of death metal. The subgenre contains more melodic guitar riffs and solos, which are sometimes acoustic, and also occasional 'clean' singing as opposed to traditional death grunt vocals.


 * Now, what there conflicts with Opeth's music?

Opeth is in every way melodic death metal, they meet every criteria (with the exception of damnation), they should be added.

The Damnation album is not melodic death metal it's prog rock, i edited the page to reflect that but it was deleted. i dont know what there is to dispute about that, please give a reason whoever did. it should read:

"Opeth (except the Damnation album)"


 * I didnt edit it, however it looks scruffy. At what point in their discography did they do this Damnation album?

scruffy as it may be it seems to be the format of every other circumstance where a band has albums of different genres that ive seen. it was released in 2003 as the second part of the deliverance/damnation recordings. damnation is composed entirely of clean vocals, with no heavy riffs whatsoever, for the purpose of contrasting with the Deliverance album which was released in 2002 and featured Opeths typical death metal stylings.

What? Opeth are pretty melodic... in fact, they're progressive melodic death metal, if you want to get all genrenazi about it. But yeah.

-I agree, Why don't we just put them in 2 catagories. Melodic Death Metal and Progressive Metal.
 * 1) REDIRECT The real gener we should classefy Opeth is:Classical Doom Death Metal....that's to be very specific,but if we want to give it by one word ,it should be EXTREME Metal...Melodic Death has nothing to do with Opeth

I'm sorry, but if you seriously think Opeth are melodic death metal then you know nothing about music. Opeth are progressive metal with some death vocals thrown in, and if you knew the fundamentals of genre classification you would know that vocal style does not define genre.

Seconded on that - literally hundreds of bands play music that has melody and takes influence from death metal; few of those are "melodic death metal" bands. Opeth is squarely rooted in progressive death metal, and as such uses plenty of melody in their music - doesn't make them melodic death. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Amon Amarth are not melodic death metal
They are viking metal. It might seem to make sense to put them in melodic death metal but if you compare them with someone like Children of Bodom or In Flames (older in flames) its clearly not their style. They are closer to normal death.
 * Just because Amon Amarth have lyrics about Viking/Norse themes doesn't necessarily mean they're Viking metal. Viking metal is a specific sub-genre of black metal. They're more aggressive than Children Of Bodom and In Flames, but I'd still say they're melodic death metal, not death metal.

- Amon Amarth is absolutely melodic death. They aren't like old Arch Enemy or At the Gates or anything like that, but just because they have Norse/Viking lyrics doen't make them a "Viking Metal" band. 80% of Viking Metal bands are either melodic death, black metal, or power metal. Amon Amarth is definitely the melodic death of the three.

Amarth was founded 1992, only two years after At The Gates.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.44.254 (talk) 13:39, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

-If I may make a point, just because a band has a theme doesn't mean it should instantly become the setting for a subgenre. Would you consider Nile an "egyptian death metal" band? Especially when not a single member is egyptian? Same applies to Cradle Of Filth (I know they aren't Melodic Death but they suit my example). Should Cradle be labled a "Vampiric Black Metal" band? Amon Amarth especially should not spawn any sort of subgenre, especially because Vikings don't even exist anymore.

-You can't really catergorise bands as being viking metal: viking metal is more about the lyrics and themes than actual music. Amon Amarth are definately melodic death metal. Anything vaguely metally with viking themes can be called viking metal, but that is not the type of music it is.

-Viking Metal isn't a fucking genre.
 * Well, i do agree that Viking Metal isn't really a genre. It's more like a tag you could set an artist on, which means some kind of death/black/folk which has vikings/paganism in it... Just look it up on the viking metal article instead - "Viking metal is a cross-genre reference usually used to describe the lyrical and thematic elements of bands rather than the music itself". Instead of calling Amon Amarth Viking Metal, we should just call them Melodic Death Metal, because that is exactly what it is. It's also Viking Metal. Ran4 16:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

They are melodic death metal. Just because they sing about vikings doesn't mean they aren't. Masonpw (talk) 17:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Viking is a lyrical theme, not a musical genre. They are death metal which is melodic, which means they are melodic death metal. Melodeath doesn't have to be Gothenburg in its sound, any death metal which is very melodic like Amon Amarth is melodic death metal. That's what the freakin' name suggests anyway.

Carcass are not melodic death metal
Carcass are the progenitors of the grindcore, especially goregrind, sound, and are in no way a melodic death metal band. Some of their later releases moved to a "traditional" heavy metal sound which is, granted, more melodic, but not at all melodic death metal.

Go listen to Heartwork, then come back here and say they aren't partly melodeath. That album was one of the first melodeath-esque records ever. Essentially paving the way for other bands. Ladysway1985


 * Heartwork is definately melodic death and should be added. DanielAbrams
 * Carcass was originally grindcore, but you can't deny that Heartwork is melodeth. I just edited the page to say that they made the first melodeth album, but other bands sometimes get the credit for it. Masonpw (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd argue that Dark Tranquillity's Skydancer was the first melodeath album, which was released one month before Heartwork. Ampersand55 (talk) 18:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

-Carcass is Grindcore AND Melodic Death. They started Grindcore and ended Melodic Death. How is there later work "Traditional"? It has harsh vocals and blast beats.

Carcass "is" broken up, is what they is. ;) They innovated in both (largely unrelated) styles, however at the end of their career they were pretty squarely in the (nascent) melodic death camp.  --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Children Of Bodom
Don't you think Children Of Bodom should be added to the list?
 * CoB use fetch most of their influence from Power Metal and Black Metal. If you check the composition of their music, and of the bands lyrical themes. They share very little connection with Death Metal, bar minor use of Death Metal esque parts in riffs, in some songs. Thus, they dont warrant a place here. Leyasu 06:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Why does CoB not belong if their page says that they play melodic death metal? Some sort consensus ought to be reached on this, because right now there's a difference that's sort of confusing. RufusX 01:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do not go around distorting information. The article says they play a HYBRID genre, which is true. --Sn0wflake 02:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


 * What they play Rufus, is a somewhat mix of Power Metal and Symphonic Black Metal. Added is minor Death Metal influence. Thank you however for pointing this problem out, im sure i or another will adress this problem shortly. Leyasu 05:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Symphonic black metal? What does Children of Bodom have in their style apart from keyboards (which do not even use symphonic arrangements) that in any way relates to that genre? --Sn0wflake 06:41, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

When i wrote that i was half distracted, i meant to say Melodic Black Metal. Thus is the power of my beautifull but devious lady Hannah for you. Leyasu 07:15, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * My apologies for the Bodom page - it was late and I was edit happy. This however is a full on contradiction, so someone who feels more authorative about it should probably make fixes instead of silly newbies... Apologies! Apologies! RufusX 09:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

We all make mistakes, dont worry about it. Leyasu 09:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps there should be a note on the page saying something about why CoB doesn't belong, along with a note to look at this talk page.  I know I didn't have enough sense to read this before I went around editing, and this all seems like a problem that wouldn't take much to prevent... RufusX 23:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If someone who knows how to put notes in the article, that dont appear on the article page, would care to do so, your proposed soloution would work easily. Leyasu 09:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Children of Bodom are very easy to classify, I don't see the confusion :) They're just a hybrid (as stated previously) of Melodic Power Metal and Speed Metal. Taking into a count their past albums, and most especially their latest album, they have absolutely nothing to do with any kind of Death Metal. Ladysway1985 05:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Ladysway, although COB's lyrical content can sometimes show traces of death influences, their music is clearly Melodic Power/Speed, and it's the lyrics and especially Alexi Laiho's harsh vocals that have probably lead to all the controversey. Dying2live 08:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live


 * You guys are breaking down this stuff way too much. if children of bodom is anything, they are speed metal and that's it. they aren't melodic death metal at all. if they are then what is opeth? they sound nothing like each other, and opeth should be (and is to me) the band in which other bands are measured when it comes to classifying a band as melodic death metal.

I go by what Encyclopedia Metallum says. The guys behind it have been in the metal scene for nearly 20 years now, they know what they're talking about. And Encyclopedia Metallum deems them to be "Power/Speed Metal with Harsh Vocals", although you cannot deny that the earlier material (particularly Hatebreeder) were at least influenced by melodeath. Lartsa 20:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Children Of Bodom are a Melodic Death Metal band. Let's review the styles shall we?
 * Power metal: Yes they have lots of melody and their music is more melodic than harmonic. Unlike In Flames and Arch Enemy the entwining 'Gothenburg' dual guitars aren't so prominent, since Alexi Laiho plays mostly solos all the time. They also make frequent use of keyboards.
 * Melodic Death: They have death vocals. Power metal mainly has clean vocals. Death vocals are a key element for Death Metal or Melodic Death Metal. The lyrics aren't related to fantasy/epic battles etc which is present in power metal. Instead the lyrics are focused on death and the grim reaper. The music is a lot heavier than power metal albums, especially the last two albums. And they have a lot of double bass drumming.
 * I don't think they have any relation to black metal, not even Symphonic Black. None of their music has a symphony playing with it. Only the keyboards give it their symphonic-esque sound. And the lyrics aren't black metal related, and the vocals are growling, not shrieking. In Flames 18:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Incorrect. Vocal style has nothing to do with a bands musical classicfication, that would mean that almost all Funeral Doom bands play Death Metal. This would also make Necrophobic a Black Metal band, disqualify Arch Enemy from being anything more than a Thrash Metal band, put Dissection soley into the Black metal catagory etc etc. Going on lyrical themes then Amon Amarth are a viking Metal band Deicide are Black metal, Mayhem's early works would be Death Metal... forgive me but that is absurd. With CoB I think the best thing to do would be to call them Extreme Power Metal, simply because they are basically a power metal band with harsh vocals and some extreme elements.


 * CoB is a mixture of Extreme Power Metal, with influences from Black- and Melodic Death Metal.DJLarZ 13:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

he shrieks. Actually i've never heard of anything growled from cob. They are power metal with shrieking vocals.
 * In Flames you are really wrong. I dont never considered laiho's voclas to growls


 * Uh, I really think CoB is melodic death. And Ladysway1985 - Melodic power metal? Haha, wouldn't "melodic" be an requirement in power metal? I certainly doesn't know any non-melodic power metal bands. I can't see how anyone would call CoB Black Metal, it just doesn't have those elements.


 * CoB isn't melodeath. Just listen to it, it sounds nothing like melodeath. XXMurderSoulXx 08:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course vocal style has to do with a bands musical classicfication, did you ever listen to a reggae song where is growled? Every style of music has its trademarks, and the vocal style is one of the most important ones. Especially for Power Metal - because its one of the genres of metal where it isn't growled and shouted. The expression "power metal with harsh vocal" is a joke and a contradiction in terms. In fact, there is also no genre called "Extreme Power Metal", this is a denomination made by the music industry for reasons of merchandising... Also Alexi Laiho said, they don't want to be called as Power Metal: http://www.metalunderground.com/interviews/details.cfm?newsid=16865

Children of Bodom aren't "melodic death metal" they should be removed, end of story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.187.76 (talk) 19:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Notable bands?
How can a band like Beyond Shadows stand amongst notable bands when they have only ever released a single album? That doesn't make them very noticable i my book...

Not noticable? You find me another melodic death metal band in the musical cesspool of NYC, albeit one that is as good as Beyond Shadows.

They released their second full length album, Escape From Reality, earlier this year. There is also reputed to be a special edition of this album to be released with a few bonus tracks sometime in the near future. It's really quality over quantity anyway. Beyond Shadows is one of a very few true melodic death metal bands from the USA... most American stuff is more metalcore or mainstream oriented.

Scar Symmetry please. They are an awesome, rising star band.

Children Of Bodom are Extreme Metal band......... and a little Melodeath —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.82.28.110 (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Arch Enemy?
Are they clear to add to the list?


 * I wound not classify Arch Enemy as melodic death, especially their old music.


 * Arch Enemy is definitely Melodic Death Metal. Their old stuff (except maybe Black Earth) included.


 * Arch Enemy is without doubt melodic death metal, and in my personal opinion one of the greatest examples of it. In fact Michael Amott was one of the pioneers of the melodic death metal scene of Sweden, I am surprised why there is any confusion to this. Dying2live 08:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live

- I can't even understand why you would even ask this. Arch Enemy is CLEARLY a melodic death band. ESPECIALLY their older tunes. This shouldn't even be discussed.

I personally don't listen to them that much, and haven't heard much of their music. But i have listened to their newest music and despite the olden days they are clearly heading in a new direction with their music, take Nemesis for instance they have a small section of the song with clean and melodic music, but does the lead singer calm down and actually use her clean vocals on the music? no, i think they're death metal

Same with In Flames, his voice doesn't "calm down" in every song either. It's wrong to generalize it like that.

-Are you kidding me? Arch Enemy is 100% a Melodic Death Metal band! I say this being a HUGE fan and being familiar with all of there work. Sure maybe they like to get a bit soft on the newer stuff but its still very much Melodic Death. They're just sprinkling some Progressive Metal on top now days.

"Black Earth" is clearly Melodic death, like a mix of "Clandestine" and "Heartwork"

More Asterisks
I have added some more asterisks to both Hypocrisy and Wintersun. Below is my reasoning for both:


 * Hypocrisy: Peter Tätgren's vocal style, at least in the earlier albums (particularly Catch 22) is more black metal in style. Also, with the addition of Horgh (from Immortal) playing drums on Virus, the sound is still fairly influenced by black metal. They have also recently lost some melodic-ness (evident on Virus), I would even go so far as to call them Blackened Death Metal (though not in the same vein as Behemoth or Zyklon, for example.)


 * Wintersun: To be honest, I do not agree with the placing of Wintersun in this category at all. I would agree if the sentiment was that Jari Maenpaa drew some influences from melodeath ("Beyond the Dark Sun", et al), but to me it still sound like a homologation of black and death, also with some folk influences.

I do, however, feel that this strenuous categorisation is a little too overpowering... who cares really, just enjoy the music! Lartsa 20:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC), Long time metalhead...

Cleaning Up
I've just deleted the list of bands that do not have any articles. I've also deleted Opeth off the list - they don't relate to Melodic Death Metal at all. Opeth are progressive death metal, with lots of acoustics and jazz influences. Except for Damnation, which is prog rock (however one album doesn't change the bands genre). And I've also deleted Death. Although they have their melodic moments they are clearly just Death Metal. Please correct this if I'm wrong In Flames 19:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

BATHORY?
Bathory is not melodic death metal by any reasonable definition. Bathory was one of the forerunners of black metal. --GreatCthulhu 13:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Gothenburg Metal
I've just deleted Gothenburg Metal from the See Also list, since it redirects to Melodic Death Metal.Punainen Nörtti 20:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Darkest Hour
I've noticed there have been repeated attempts on this page to list Darkest Hour as a Melodic Death Metal band, I do believe it is justified, especially in their earlier work, their first EP is still part of their history and sounds very similar to Arch Enemy. In addition to that, Hidden Hands of a Sadist Nation was produced by Fredrik Nordstrom who has produced many well known Melodic Death Metal albums and this may show the shift in direction towards Melodeath, for this reason I am adding them to the list. Any objections? 1607m4dsk1llz 19:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Ya know, nevermind that last statement, after serious expansion of musical tastes the last 2 months Darkest Hour is most certainly metalcore, I've also come to the conclustion that any melodic death metal kicks the shit out of metalcore, sorry for being an uneducated ass - 1607m4dsk1llz 19:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Well I believe they are melodic death metal. It was hinted a little bit on their first 2 full lenghts but seem to display more melodic death influences for Hidden Hands, Undoing Ruin, and Deliver Us while still retaining some metalcore traits. Unless there is a strong source, they will not be as cited as melodic death metal but only metalcore. NaotoATG 04:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Killswitch Engage
I've added Killswitch Engage to the list. They are without a twitch of a doubt melodic death metal. Check their wikipedia article where it says their music is heavily influenced by Gothenburg music scene. -- Nemsen 5:34 pm PST July 13, 2006

-Killswitch as melodeath?!?!?!?!? sorry man, thats just funny

- They are Metalcore, a very GENERIC and STEROTYPICAL one. Learn fucking music people, all their music is simple breakdowns and two-step beats.

-Killswitch engage is indeed a typical metalcore outfit, but one that heavily borrows from swedish melodic death, so one could list this as a melodic death metal band.

-And I removed it form the list, Killswitch Engage are Metalcore, you don't have to be from Sweden etc. Soilwork prove that with their older albums.

- Killswitch Engage are a Metalcore band and honestly even thinking of classifying them into Melodic Death is amazingly funny, even to have the thought one should have checked the common charateristics of the Genre and this band, its obvious.

Killswitch is metalcore regardless of where they are from. PERIOD! to say they are Melodic Death Metal is to be totally ignorant of what that genre is.

They're certainly considered metalcore here in Massachusetts (where they're from). --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

They are metalcore. Have you ever heard melodic death metal? Masonpw (talk) 17:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

perhaps the problem is that not all bands songs fit into one genre
it seems that a lot of people are assuming that all bands can be fit within one genre. quite often a band will produce songs that fit within one genre, whilst at other times producing songs that fit within other genres. now if a band has ann album comprised of

3 songs that are straightforward melodic death, 4 songs that are mostly melodeath with a hardcore breakdown and a song with a melodeath verse structure, a black metal breakdown, a transitions between all parts that are straightforward FETO era napalm death-esque grindcore

then what are you going to call them, blackened melodeathcore with a lemony twist of grind?

when an artist is even remotely eclectic and/or innovative (and not just pounding out safe, by the numbers genre-records based on established/accepted/commonly agreed upon genre phrasings and techniques), it becomes both misleading and dishonest to attempt to describe them with a single genre name, even if their music is mostly comprised of that style.

on the other end of the spectrum it becomes pointless to just begin adding more and more genre tags together. eventually so many styles that people consider completly dis-similar are juxtaposed in such a manner that doesn't really convey any real information.

one benefit that including a location into the name of a genre has is to differentiate even the minor variances that occur between similar sounds developing in different locations. adding a place name also often infers a time period when the music was created, allowing the listener to put the music into better historical context.

It is also not uncommon for a band to evolve towards a different genre throughout their carreer. For instance: Acturus' debut album "Aspera Hiems Symfonia" was an avant garde black metal album. But by the time of third album "The Sham Mirrors" it was simply impossible to describe them as black metal. Opeths acoustic "Damnation" was also a far cry from al their other album. therefore, one can better pigeonhole an album, instead of an entire band.

borknagar
would borknagar classify as melodic death? the vocals were very death when they started; and they just slowly mixed in some cleaner vocals. Their music still pertains to elements of melodic death metal too?

No, absolutely not, no way, you are confusing Black Metal with Death Metal. I cannot think of a single riff that would even come close to Melodeath on any of Borknagar's albums.

If anything, they started off as folk-influenced black metal and veered over into folk-influenced progressive metal. (And then, of course, the acoustic record.) Not much real DM influence in any of their catalog. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Notable bands
Do we really need that many notable bands? A lot of them are not really even all that notable (and some of them not even melodic death metal at all). Is this section supposed to be a list of influential melodic death metal bands or a list of all (melodic) death metal bands ever? - Quirk 06:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I seems like lists of notable or key artists in other metal articles get often vandalised by adding ppl adding their favourite band to the list. I guess the most important ones should be in the text anyway and others can be in the list of melodic death metal bands or in a category. Spearhead 08:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is this sub-genre linked to "symphonic death metal"? "Gothenburg-metal" is irrelevant when a band is labelled "symphonic death metal", and the word's link takes you to this article... "Symphonic death metal" as I know it is simply; death metal combined with orchestral compositions, and has little or nothing to do with geography.

Sections of the article need to be reworked
The things that i found to be incorrect in this article:

"and also occasional 'clean' singing" Most melodic metal bands words are understandable, coherent screaming is more understandable than "clean singing"

However in recent years, the genre has gained somewhat of a popularity boost, acquiring a small underground status in the North American areas of Florida, New York, Tennessee. California, and some parts of Canada, especially among North American fans of the Scandinavian bands which still pioneer the genre today but are looking for some closer-to-home bands. I can not find any source that supports this claim, aspecifically since Tennessee has nearly nothing related to these states, this section should be removed in my opinion.

Melodic DM vs. BM?
What's the point of "Melodic Death Metal vs. Black Metal"? Death metal, too, comes from the same geographic area, but a subsection similarly titled is not in death metal. It should either be added to the DM article, or removed from this one. 209.158.255.169 20:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * No it stays, you have no idea how many people I have come across that think that blackened death metal and melodic black metal are the same thing as melodic death metal. They assume that if you play one of those genres you automatically play the other. A similar section should be added to the death metal article though. --Leon Sword 23:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Death Metal originated in North America —Preceding unsigned comment added by Free2game (talk • contribs) 21:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Tiamat
Why the hell Tiamat is not mentioned?? Astral Sleep is a one of the most significant, crucial and pioneering albums of the melodic death genre.
 * Eh? Because it's not melodeath?...
 * Tiamat has one melodic death metal album, whereas where you were trying to put them was with the likes of the pioneers of the genre who have put out several melodeath albums. Making mention of the album, perhaps, but it's not as influential as those bands were/are. -- Shatterzer0 17:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking
Last night, I was thinking about how maybe there could be a way to set up a project for this. Like a melodic death metal task force, that would list bands that need articles, articles that need cleaning and so on and so forth. We all watch this page for a reason, so why not try and make the genre we all like so much look good here on wikipedia? Some articles need a lot of work such as Dark Tranquillity, I mean 1989 - present, there should be alot of history there, but isn't it's just a stub. Even At the Gates is a stub and these guys pioneered this genre. What do you all think? -- Shatterzer0 17:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Carcass?
I hate to alarm anyone, but why does In Flames get credited as a Pioneer and Carcass just gets a brief mention, despite releasing the first Melodic Death Metal album? Camalus (talk) 05:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I have sources as well. http://www.maximummetal.com/columns/tales/37.asp for example.--Wick3dd (talk) 23:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * There are tons of sources on Carcass. Kameejl (Talk) 09:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Some books on google books:
 * 
 * (scroll down)
 * Kameejl (Talk) 10:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

In Flames has a pretty dedicated fan pushing them as a "pioneer" over earlier innovators, so it's not surprising this keeps showing up. (See the talk page for them for examples.) --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

They're not even melodeath. They are just a rock band with some metalcore/nu-metal influence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Talvimiekka (talk • contribs) 18:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * What the hell are you talking about? Carcass or In Flames? Either way you're wrong. Carcass has been grindcore and melodic death metal for pretty much their whole career (not at the same time).  In Flames has no influence from mallcore.  They have over time become more and more akin to metalcore sadly, but IF started out as purely melodeath and they were pretty brutal when they started.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 20:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The song December Flower by In Flames in a great example of their melodeath work and the solo shows the technicality they were capable of! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.189.168 (talk) 07:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Post-death?
Is post-death a legit term? I never heard of it and a google search doesn't lead me to clear examples of melodeath. I'll remove it.

I've often heard "Swedish metal" as synonym of Gothenborg metal. Shouldn't we add it? Kameejl (Talk) 12:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually when I searched post-death metal and I got reviewers, labels and the like using the term like the review sites metal observer and also progressive world using the term. So it seems to be correct. "Swedish metal" may create a problem because it may be Scandinavian death metal or more specifically any type of metal from Sweden. --CircafuciX (talk) 21:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The term may exist (probably only meaning "what comes after death metal"). The results don't lead to clear examples of melodeath (f.e. metal observer is not referring to MDM). Kameejl (Talk) 18:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, "Swedish Metal" would more accurately be referring to the old-school Sunlight sound bands, such as Entombed, Grave, Dismember and Morbid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The Gothenburg sound
I noticed the section talking about the Gothernburg sound, but it does not talk about the sound itself at all. It only talks about the bands that created it. Not to mention, the Gothenburg sound should have a bigger section. Of all melodeath bands I think fans are most familiar with the Gothenburg sound, and it is extremely distinctive. We should talk about the sound itself i.e. the distincitve growling/ scratchy vocals and the harmonies used in the music with instruments as well as the guitar work, etc. etc.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 23:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * HELLO!? No one even responded to this statement!  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 22:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Extreme power metal
Im not quite sure, but isn't extreme power metal something closer to melodic death metal? There is no genre called "Extreme Power Metal", this is an invention of the music industry.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.28.234 (talk) 18:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Erh actually there IS

Clean vocals not relevant in this classification
Just a quick note - I keep seeing discussion as to whether or not this band or that band uses clean vocals. Not sure why - clean vocals in no way would signify that band is playing melodic death metal; if anything, using clean vox would be a step away from the genre. Not that there aren't bands that have used the technique (In Flames used some towards the end of their melodic death period), but it's not a trait of the genre. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is true. Clean vocal do indeed actually indicate a band being further from melodeath, not closer to it.  Real melodeath uses raspy death metal-like vocals.  Over time some bands began to incorporate clean vocals into their music.  Over even more time some melodeath bands (such as In Flames) have continued to dilute the Gothenburg melodeath sound to the point where it really isn't melodeath anymore.  Clean vocals don't indicate a melodeath band, they indicate the opposite.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 22:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Do not confuse melodic death metal with death metal - or, like often is the case, do not think only amon amarth is melodeath. Use clean vocals in a death metal song would mean exactly a more melodic approach. Haxxiy (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Melodic Death and Power Metal
Apart from vocals what how else do they differ? I think Melodic death will have heavier guitars but is there anything else? I mean if you took an melodeath song and put clean vocals to it would it become power metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.177.17 (talk) 06:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't. Haxxiy (talk) 16:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that Haxxiy. Power metal bands like Dreamevil use CGCFAD tuning. Power metal bands use all kinds of tuning so their guitar sound can be as "Heavy" as they want it to while still being power metal. But I would think the song would only become power metal if the vocals were clean AND high pitched. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.51.21.229 (talk) 16:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

The difference lies in song structures, riffs and compositions - not in tuning or vocals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that seems like the best answer. You will probably find many people say that Melodic death metal is closer to power metal than standard death metal due to the melody involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.117.211 (talk) 21:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Into Eternity Are Not Scandanavian
Into Eternity are from Canada (fair enough it's really cold there, but Scandinavia it ain't). Also, to use a relatively minor band as a definitive example of melodic death metal doesn't do the article's credibility any good, it just indicates that the author is probably quite a fan of this band (as am I). 211.28.141.67 (talk) 22:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course they're not Scandinavian but they're still melodic death metal. What other band would be a good example of a progressive melodic death band? It's not just melodic death alone. If any it would have to be Scar Symmetry. − ₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪  kaiden  23:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Founders of Melodeath
I just edited the sentence "The genre was created by three bands who at the time all knew each other: In Flames, Dark Tranquillity and At the Gates" to "Dissection and At the Gates", because seriously, if you just study it a bit, In Flames didn't create anything before 1994, by then At the Gates had released three full-lengths, Dark Tranquillity had released only one (heavily influenced by At the Gates, not very revolting and didn't get much recognition) while Dissection had released 4 demos and one VERY influential full-length.

I would recommend everyone to read the book "Swedish Death Metal" by Daniel Ekeroth before changing anything back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The thing is - Dark Tranquillity were making music since 1989, their first release under Septic Broiler was more thrash oriented so that can be thrown out the door, but in 1991, when they did change their name, they also changed their style and if you have heard the Trail of Life Decayed demo, it is melodeath. While your arguement does hold merit, I think they should be mentioned as well, In Flames' first demo was '93 by the way... -- Shatterzer0 (talk) 22:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Carcass made the first album which is solid proof they are the founders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.179.211 (talk) 13:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Eluveitie
"Some melodic death metal bands from the Scandinavian region ... Eluveitie". As Eluveitie is a Swiss band, they don't belong in that sentence. LaHaine (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

melodic death metal and deathcore
What is the difference between the two genres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.78.1.155 (talk) 23:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Melodic death metal is a subgenre of death metal. It is a more melodic-styled death metal minus the true death metal riffs of Immolation, Death, Morbid Angel and more to give some examples. Keyboards are prominent within the genre and the guitars often reference Iron Maiden-esque melodicism in their guitar work making it feel more progressive.


 * As for deathcore, it is a subgenre of metalcore and a fusion of death metal. Most bands have breakdowns and at times resemble the sound of death metal acts with that addition. The riffs are overall more death metal-like but not quite true death metal with all the breakdowns and metalcore influence.

FireCrystal (talk) 01:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Melodic death metal is "melodic"?
The phrase "more melodic than Death Metal" gets thrown around alot, but nowhere in the article is there a very clear definition of what that means. The closest this article came to addressing this is:

Melodic death metal contains more melodic guitar riffs, melodic solos, and acoustic guitar work than death metal[citation needed].

Note the "citation needed".

"More melodic guitar riffs" is great, but it still doesn't answer my question. "Melodic Solos"? If a passage is "Melodic" in the way he seems to be using the term, than it isn't a cadenza, it's a melody, and that's not a solo at all. "Acoustic Guitar Work"? Right... I've listened to a good deal of In Flames and Bodom and the only time I've ever heard an acoustic guitar was in Acoustic Medley.

It also contains more comprehensible lyrics with traditional death growl and screaming vocal input.[citation needed]

What in the hell does that mean?

It seems to me that Melodic Death Metal is more characteristic of influence from sounds like In Flames and At the Gates than this extremely vague concept of "melodic" work people keep talking about. If this is the case, shouldn't the main article be "Gothenburg Metal" with "Melodic Death Metal" redirecting?

Also, Progressive Melodic Death Metal? Are you kidding me? This sounds less like a real Genre and more like an attempt to get some obscure melodeath band that calls themselves progressive onto Wikipedia.

Erroramong (talk) 03:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * We all know that this article really needs to be fixed up and that a lot of the points in the article are unreferenced but that's usually what happens with unreferenced articles (or ones lacking sources). It will be hard and painful to find a clear diffinition that all authors, reviewers, interviewers, the press and, etc use but you are welcome to be bold and do so.

Melodic death metal contains more melodic guitar riffs, melodic solos, and acoustic guitar work than death metal[citation needed].

I think the context intends for it to be a guitar solo probably indicating that there are more solos in melodic death than there is in death metal but that's pretty vague as it's only opinion. I think the solo part and acoustic guitar part should actually be removed since there are sometimes melodic passages in death metal too and acoustic guitar seems to be pretty rare. It may also be implied that the instruments die down at some point in the song and an instrumental break starts in parts of songs which are more melodic. It's still original research though.

It also contains more comprehensible lyrics with traditional death growl and screaming vocal input.[citation needed]

Well here it depends on the band but generally they seem to be more comprehensible than real death metal (especially its subgenres like death/doom, brutal death metal and there's also deathgrind. Then again it depends on the vocalist of the band.

I don't think it would make sense to make a general type of music such as melodic death metal as Gothenburg metal because melodic death metal bands are from all over the world but it could pass as a scene but this article also describes some bits about the scene so that will be sufficient. Many, many people of the media and etc label bands as melodic death metal and is a more well known term than "Gothenburg metal" to describe bands. FireCrystal (talk) 04:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Carcass
...Has been almost completely edited out, which is really strange considering they Heartwork is the, to my knowledge, earliest melodic death metal album. I don't know how to reference poroperly and use sources, but someone please fix this, or at least show me how.193.1.52.12 (talk) 09:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to show us the reliable sources before we can use them. Nerfari (talk) 21:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm going by chronology here. Heartwork pre-empted the albums that formed the Gothengurg sound by about 2 years. 86.46.247.78 (talk) 22:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not true. Heartwork was recorded and released in 1993, the same year a number of other melodeath albums were recorded and released. Sentenced, At the Gates, Dark Tranquillity, and even In Flames put out albums that year that are considered to be melodeath (In Flames put out a demo album, but an album nonetheless). Early the following year, In Flames' label debut came out (which was actually recorded in 1993) and so did Amorphis' second album which is considered to be their first melodeath album. So Carcass was not the first melodeath band, but it was one of the first. --Nova Weaver (talk) 23:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I am deleting this page right now.
Because melodic death metal is not a genre. No band falls under the genre "melodic death metal."

For example:

The Black Dahlia Murder are metalcore. Carcass are heavy metal. In Flames are hard rock.

There is no melodic death metal.

Ah right I see that clears it up. Well you know best I'm sure. 89.241.226.78 (talk) 09:38, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

jesus, you're ridiculous! carcass are not heavy metal, they were goregrind and grindcore before the release of their album heartwork, they were then and still are one of the key acts of melodic death metal, because they helped to pioneer it. in flames are one of the first real melodic death metal bands, listen to their old stuff. they might have changed to a kind of alternative metal direction in the newer stuff, but they still have their melodic death metal sound and they have never even considered playing anything else then metal, specially not hard rock, do they sound like avenged sevenfold maybe? i don't think so. and i wouldn't classify the black dahlia murder as any genre, they are a mainstream band showing off and trying to sound brutal, but besides that, they have no notability. they are just lame. melodic death metal is a genre, and there are a lot of sources that prove that, and a lot of bands who prove it does exist, educate yourself a bit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.179.243 (talk) 18:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

dismember
dismember is the first melodic death metal band y no reference in the article 76.220.195.8 (talk) 23:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for genre-combining examples
There's no example for a band yet that mixes melodic death metal with progressive metal. Skyfire fit the bill better than any other band I can think of. Is it OK if I add them?

As for Children of Bodom, they are not the best example for a prog/MDM hybrid in my opinion. They're the prototypical example for a neo-classical/MDM hybrid, though. I suppose Necrophagist don't count as MDM (and they aren't from Scandinavia anyway), and I'm not sure if Wintersun qualify as MDM; they could only possibly be added as an example for a virtually all-encompassing hybrid. Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No objections in the course of almost a week, so I went ahead and added them. Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Trance Metal Page
I feel that as 'Trance Metal' should have it's own page, it is becoming increasingly popular within the metal scene and extends far more than this artical lets on. I will collect sources now. Skullbird11 (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


 * that's not metal, that's hardcore with a high usage of synths, and a lot of trance and electro elements, and what does this have to do with this article? as i know, only the band Blood Stain Child combines melodic death metal with trance. you can't make a page based by one band who sounds different, besides, electronic hardcore, and electronically influenced hardcore pages have been deleted already few times.


 * There are more Trance Metal bands out there besides Blood Stain Child. Silent Descent, Lost Eden and The Dawn Chose Orion are a few more. Salamibears58 (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Isn't the point of music to have a melody?
So does that make all non-melodic black metal "dissonance"? 184.96.229.186 (talk) 03:23, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what is your point?--3family6 (talk) 12:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

"...This death metal style that combines the post-hardcore aggression and guttural vocals of black metal..." What the hell?!

 * first of this article might be the worst article on wikipedia, there's a load of incorrect information, like the section "gothenburg metal", that doesn't exist, it's just a name given as a joke by some fans. melodic death metal is the same thing as "gothenburg metal". i've never actually seen in some bands' genre section they are  "gothenborg metal", it's all melodic death metal, a simple genre that combines death metal aggression with the melody of heavy metal. sure, the early bands had some influences of black metal, grindcore, and progressive rock, but that was before the genre actually got involved, and became a real genre, and whoever has writen the sentence "This death metal style that combines the post-hardcore aggression and guttural vocals of black metal..." has clearly no clue about music, post-hardcore is not aggressive. it was an offshoot of hardcore punk in the early days, but now it's just faggot music, with a pussy who doesn't know how to scream but tries and fails and gay clean vocals by a guy who sound like a 3-year old girl, and since when did black metal contain guttural growls? even the monkeys in the zoo know black metal has shrieking screams, and if melo-death is influenced by any way off it, it's just the dark atmosphere. wake up people, it's just stupid to let some kids who don't know shit about music ruin the article of the most awesome sub-genre of metal by putting non-sense to it like that guy above who wanted to add killswitch engage to a notable melodic death metal band. i'm going to delete the "gothenburg metal" section and its up to you guys what will you do with the page. continue writing non-sense or actually improve the article with correct information, and make the article look like it deserves to look like, with every correct sentence and expanded at least like the thrash metal article.


 * Rants don't mean much on Wikipedia. Do you have sources?-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)


 * i don't need any, steven gibb of allexperts.com says gothenburg metal is a movement, not a genre, and there's no need to put the infobox for that, because that is just melodic death metal with some influences on other genres, it's not a genre at all, just a movement, and i've read about black metal and post-hardcore here and other sites, and there are no sources that post-hardcore is aggressive or black metal has guttural vocals. that was just wrong, black metal has shrieking vocals, and there are a lot sources for that, and post-hardcore is just fast and loud, not aggressive in any way, might have been before, but now, it's just a shitty genre that has nothing to do with melodic death metal, it's does with melodic metalcore though, but not with melodic death metal or gothenburg metal, whatever you want to call it. if it's really that important for the section to stay, fine than, but the sentence i've put on the title of this discussion and infobox got to go, because that's not correct, not even close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 23:05, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am fine with taking the infobox out of the Gothenburg metal section. Post-hardcore is aggressive, though the term has grown incredibly broad and now includes softer styles of music. With black metal, personally I've heard a lot of guttural vocals, but if you can provide a source that says that black metal does not use guttural vocals, then go ahead and remove that sentence.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 02:44, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * okay, but post-hardcore has still nothing to do with this style of music, it does with melodic metalcore, and it's just giving it a bunch of melody, not aggression. and here is a reliable sources of black metal having shrieking vocals...

Kahn-Harris, Keith (2006). Extreme Metal: Music and Culture on the Edge, page 4: Traditional black metal vocals take the form of high-pitched shrieks, screams and snarls. this is also featured on the black metal page. guttural death growls are characteristics of death metal, as the second sentence on the article says "It typically employs heavily distorted guitars, tremolo picking, deep growling vocals, blast beat drumming, minor keys or atonality, and complex song structures with multiple tempo changes." if you want to i can find you a reliable source for that too, but i'm sure everyone is going to say to you that growls are common death metal vocals, and screams are common black metal vocals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 09:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's enough. What we need is a source that specifically says that black metal does not use guttural vocals, or something to that effect. The source above doesn't actually contradict the Allmusic ref.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 11:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * why does everybody believe what's written on allmusic? they put every metalcore band as alternative metal, and that source is about a deathcore band.

what about this? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=black%20metal; http://heavymetal.about.com/od/heavymetal101/a/101_blackmetal.htm; http://www.wikimetal.info/wiki/Black_Metal; http://forums.music-talk.org/topic/99205/1/ there are five links that say black metal uses high-piched shrieking vocals, one says it does both, but the rest says just high-piched shrieking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Urban Dictionary and Wikimetal are user generated and completely unacceptable as sources; the same for the forum post, unless you can prove author of the forum post is a published author in the music field. eHow looked okay to me but is blacklisted on Wikipedia for some reason. About.com is perfect, but it actually says that both vocal styles are used, which flat out contradicts your argument. I'm not saying that you are wrong, it's just that the source doesn't support your claim.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 13:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No references saying that black metal does not have guttural vocals have turned up, and the about.com reference above says that it does have them. I'm putting the sentence back in.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 12:18, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

chuck Norris has been involved with death metal for many years.He has his own band called boot to the head finger in your bum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.12.55.210 (talk) 02:55, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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