Talk:Melodic hardcore

North Eastern US bands
there is a large population of bands sprouting from the north-eastern United States. It might help to note in text. bands-to-add: Sinking Ships Go It Alone Comeback Kid (add more if you have more) 24.4.12.213 09:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Distinction
I added a distinction between melodic-metal core and Hard-core.

I find it useless. They are like day and night. by Geekermo.

I'd say that Husker Du is post hardcore... which sits niceley between emo and melodic hardcore.

It may be a good idea to make the distinction between Melodic Hardcore and Melodic/Hardcore. I personally found it rather confusing.

I took off "With less aggression". Just because you hold your notes out a bit more and have a dedicated song structure doesn't mean it isn't angry. OhDoTell (talk) 08:33, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Husker Du?
Maybe I'm way off..but...Husker Du is barely a punk band. Can they really be considered a melodic hardcore band???

Not really, they are post-hardcore...New Wave some may say. They started the emo thing. by Geekermo.

-krm

Husker Du was definitely a punk band, at least up to Flip Your Wig, and arguably beyond that. Their early work is hardcore, and circa Zen Arcade they could certainly be classified as a melodic hardcore band. Nick 03:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Husker Du was a punk rock band through the 1980s. With the more melodic aspect that emerged in their sound, they basically helped create alternative rock. There's many references for this. However, please provide one that describes them as a part of this "melodic hardcore" genre. WesleyDodds 22:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd say Nick is right- their early material constituted some of the earliest examples of melodic hardcore music; elements of Bob Mould's guitar style (the top-string drones) were expanded on by Brian Baker with Dag Nasty. To Wesley: it's not all about references- if you were there, you don't need a reference. I'm sure someone could dig out an old zine from the early 80s and point to a relevant quote if that's what you require. Most 'references' on wikipedia with respect to punk/hardcore point to ill-informed quotes by music journalists or self-appointed 'punk-critics' reared on Blink182 who are in no position to comment.Sausage &amp; tomato 01:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Husker Du belongs on this page and its not there. They should put a minimum age for editing so all the punk rock related stuff on wikipedia won't be dictated by a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.137.138 (talk) 05:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Hopesfall
they are certainly melodic hardcore during the no wings to speak of/satellite years era?

-- I agree and would like to add that Down should be understood as probably a good example. It's the one band I thought of after reading all of this page. Please consider the first album! It's surprisingly so similar to Hopesfall, too. It's neat to make that comparison when I'm really more of a metalcore, death metal, thrash -loving person. But I certainly find interest in Down and Hopesfall. BTW, good point! --The battlesound 08:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)myspace: scotttait_ew

Strung Out, Willhelm Scream & The Killing Tree removal
Come on guys, they are not melodic hardcore. NO WAY, NO. First know the roots and then edit the article, please. by Geekermo.

A Wilhelm Scream are a melodic hardcore band stylistically, and they also define themselves as playing music of the genre. Anti-Flag, on the other hand, are not. They are a pseudo-political pop-punk band. - Callan (220.240.83.157 07:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC))

I second this A Willhelm scream is more on the punk side than melodic hardcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.159.5.66 (talk) 17:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Strung Out's new stuff is very melodic hardcore, listen to dead spaces, don't look back(not very new) and their stuff from exile —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.242.69.186 (talk) 03:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

i dont understand how all these bands are melodic hardcore
theyy all dress simlar and have a similar apearance yes, but how does new found glory and anti flag fit into melodic hardcore i mean you got stuff like the gorilla biscuits and rise against then you have new found glory ?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.37.156.131 (talk) 23:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC).


 * simple: NFG and AntiFlag aren't melodic hardcore, and whoever included them hasn't a clue what he's talking about.Sausage &amp; tomato 01:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

?
"I Hate My Parents are the most influential melodic hardcore band, combining the speed, wall-of-sound guitars, and aggression of hardcore with the vital melody-centric aesthetic of the genre. I Hate My Parents has been cited as one of the influences on emo, but this view is not without contention."

Okay, that...is getting erased.

Why not NOFX?
I mean...NoFx is one of the most influencial melodic hardcore band worldwide...Why they aren't even mentioned in the article? And what about Lagwagon, No Use For A Name, Strung Out, Venerea...?

Simone 87.14.240.178 23:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Those are punk bands.

NoFX were a poppy Thrash/Metal/Punk band with cheesy bits (apart from the REALLY early stuff which was just crusty hardcore as far as I remember, not heard maximum rock n roll or anything like that in a while) which evolved into a Pop Punk/Ska/Reggae/Dub band with cheesy bits when Hefe joined. They never really sounded anything like Gorilla Biscuits or Dag Nasty or anything like any of the more musical hardcore bands. --AnRK 01:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added NOFX to the list, because Peter Jandreus's Swedish punk encyclopedia defines melodic hardcore as established by Bad Religion and NOFX. The ref is in the article. Aryder779 (talk) 14:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

melodic hardcore/Punk rock
What's the difference between the two genres, I mean punk rock is a less extreme genre of hardcore punk, but hense the title melodic hardcore, and with some bands like Rise Against or Crime In Stereo its hard to tell.


 * There's a big difference. Listen to Uniform Choice's 1st album, then listen to Rise Against and tell me they're the same style. Hardcore has an identifiable passionate urgency that is immediately recognisable; melodic modern punk-rock doesn't to any comparable extent.Sausage &amp; tomato 09:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Spurious entries
eg Rise Against. This is not a hardcore band (and thus not melodic hardcore). Please refrain from adding to the band list if you've only a superficial knowledge of hardcore; for obvious reasons, it's not particularly desirable to confuse melodic-punk-rock and HC in an encyclopedic definition. There's already enough confusion with the mainstream-media reinvention (through ignorance) of the terms 'emo' and 'punk'. Please don't extend this to hardcore- the term will become meaningless if this happens.Sausage &amp; tomato 09:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * to Grue-

The band list as current is not my list- I've added just a couple of entries. I have however removed those irrelevant to the genre. eg Big Drill Car are NOT a hardcore band.. they are a great band, but not hc by anyone's imagination. Everything can't be classed as 'hardcore'- there has to be some kind of meaning behind the word! It's interesting that you've tagged this as missing references or sources- a difficult area in this respect, since most of those around in the 80s didn't write books or publications with the intent of having to prove their own understanding of the movement. There are certainly a slew of 80s zines that could possibly be scanned and linked to as a reference, but I can't help but feel that that is somehow missing the point. Casual wiki-editors who have limited knowledge of the hc scene (esp 80s) insist on quoting references which are frequently nothing more than an ill-informed forum post. If I can find decent references then I'll post them up, but linking to an arbitrary post on a punk forum is NOT a reference; the fact that it's written somewhere on the web lends it no particular legitimacy. One has to ask the question though: if someone has a limited casual understanding of a frequently misrepresented movement, why bother trying to add or remove information from a contentious wiki entry on the subject?Sausage &amp; tomato 17:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So some bands were called melodic hardcore in the 80s, and some bands are called melodic hardcore in the 00s. The list should contain examples of both. There is no reason to restrain this article to 80s hardcore. The genre evolves and there are many new melodic hardcore bands, which sound completely differently from the old bands, but that's not the reason to exclude them.  Grue   09:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The distinction by decade isn't the criterion by which I'm basing my judgement of what does and doesn't qualify as melodic hc; there are certainly examples of current melodic hc bands (eg Ignite). The argument of genre 'evolution' is often used to explain enormous discrepancies in style along a time-line (cf use of the term 'emo'- did the genre 'evolve' or was the term misused?). Usually such an explanation is fallacious- the original style is alive and well, and the 'evolved style' invariably shares a name but nothing more. Yes there will be some evolution of style over time, but this cannot encompass everything otherwise the term becomes meaningless. If everything was 'punk', what wouldn't be? Chronological evolution of a style or genre is not the same thing as a completely (yet sometimes subtly) different style. Faded Grey might be a good example of modern melodic hardcore.


 * Consider this: at what point does a stylistic evolution become something different altogether, especially when proponents of the former style are still in evidence? Moreover why are some so insistent on using the term 'hardcore', yet are referring to something entirely different in the present? I suggest that it's through a desire to identify with the parent culture, but that is all it is. The term 'hardcore' sounds cooler than 'pop-punk' by anyone's imagination.Sausage &amp; tomato 11:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhhh! This is so confusing because I have sympathy for both sides here. I have always been into stuff that was described by the bands, their labels and my peers as 'melodic hardcore'. This includes the like of Bigwig, 88 Fingers Louis, Dillinger Four and Avail.The band I play in, who draw heavily from these guys, we would also class ourselves as 'melodic hardcore'. I accept that it's very difficult to draw a line between the early hardcore scene and these guys, but on the other hand they really don't fit into the category of 'pop-punk' (and I'm not saying this because I consider pop-punk to be a derogatory term....I get sausage and tomato's point that some would rather escape being associated with it, but for me personally, the point is moot). On a purely musical level, I think the above bands do fit the musical criteria....just. If I had to pick two terms to sum them it, it would be 'melodic' and 'hardcore'. However, I also recognise that the scenes these bands emerged from are distictly different and that their social heritage belongs more on the side of pop-punk. One possible solution would to be to create a new slice of the punk/hc pie called 'melodic punk' but we still can't escape the fact that for many of us, this is the reality of melodic hardcore and it will always be what we term use to refer to bands like this. I'm going to stop now before I carried into some cul-de-sac about the social construction of meaning, but before I do, what does anyone think the whole 'melodic punk' deal? Loudribs (talk) 22:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

This whole article is spurious. It seems to be driven by the same dubious rationale that fuels all the articles on obscure metal genres. Some teenage punk fanatics decide "melodic hardcore" is a neat little coinage; ergo, it merits an encyclopedia article. Discussion ensues wherein fanboys rant about what "melodic hardcore" means to them without so much as one actual citation. Isn't this what fan sites are for? And by exactly what standard is this subject/article encyclopedically valid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.155.209.26 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

No, "melodic hardcore" exists -- you can find a reference in Blush's American Hardcore book, in reference to Bad Religion. It's not the same as pop punk, and its legitimate to say that groups like Avail and Dillinger Four *are* hardcore bands -- not in the sense that, I don't know, Das Oath or Converge are hardcore bands, but the house of hardcore has many mansions. It's important to realize what hardcore was in the '80s. Black Flag's "Rise Above" lays the template for a melodic hardcore song. It's not pop-punk. There's a demonstrable difference between early Bad Religion (melodic hardcore) and the Descendents or Screeching Weasel (pop-punk). I don't particularly care for either genre, truth be told, so I'm a disinterested party and not a "fanboy". Aryder779 (talk) 16:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Rush
Why was the example of Rush, Alex Lifeson, and their song "Free Will" taken out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.217.240 (talk) 08:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I would want to ask about the 7th and 9th chords? Can someone give examples on that - as much as i have listened to those bands they are all playing only powerchords (root+5th) and with that much distortion more complex harmonies would sound weird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.92.235.8 (talk) 21:57, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree I think the 7th and 9th chords thing is a joke or just soeone who doesn't know what they're talking about. I came here specifically to point out that I know what it means and it is definitely false. I'd delete it but I'm sure they'd put it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.137.138 (talk) 05:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * the dead kennedys and the offspring (up to and including smash) are good examples of bands that played with more complex harmonics. it's maybe not as genre-defining as was suggested, though. perhaps it's something that suggests a stronger affinity with noise rock. there's a slew of contemporary acts that use the technique, though. one is loma prieta. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.48.181.24 (talk) 06:53, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Fall out boy?
seriously, fall out boy? somebody please explain to me why they should be on that list71.193.243.217 (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC) they are making mostly alternative rock, and they have nothing to do with hardcore only the split EP is post-hardcore, and there are some melodic hardcore songs, like "The Carpal Tunnel Of Love" for example, but that doesn't mean that they are melodic hardcore band —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.76.51.32 (talk) 18:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Difference between melodic hardcore and modern hardcore punk
Melodic hardcore is a fusion with the speed and energy of hardcore punk and the melody and harmonies of pop punk. Seriously, do lifetime or kid dynamite sound like bane or comeback kid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Himynameisnick (talk • contribs) 16:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah! Also, in what way is Have Heart 'melodic' it's clearly modern hadcore punk. They're just another one of these bands like Comeback Kid and Bane —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.70.88 (talk) 20:36, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Pop punk
Shouldn't pop punk be listed in the infobox as a source? I feel like people on this page want to differentiate the two, but Blush's book cites the Descendents as the beginning of melodic hardcore, and they're also widely considered as a pop punk band (I have more than one magazine source substantiating this). Aryder779 (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Other bands
I think there are several bands that should be included into the list of melodic hardcore bands. I'm talking about bands such as Bad Religion, NOFX, Offspring or Rise Against. These bands were, commercially, the most important of the melodic hardcore, and even Bad Religion is often considered to be the one who started playing this genre. They all play fast drums, they all use melodic voice, and they all play pop punk-influenced guitar riffs.

Derivative Forms
Can metalcore and post-hardcore really be described as derivative forms? Neither was incredibly melodic very often until relatively recently and post-hardcore came into being at about the same time as melodic hardcore. (Albert Mond (talk) 08:22, 7 August 2010 (UTC))
 * I thought the idea was that Post-hardcore Melodic Hardcore and Emo are derivatives cause they all evolved out of hardcore and during the 80's Jonjonjohny (talk) 10:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Pop Punk?
Has whoever edited this page ever heard melodic Hardcore? There is nothing pop punk about it. Go listen to BluePrint of the Fall, no voice of mine by strung out, give it all, society etc. No pop punk riffs, not derivative form, nothing.--115.240.117.52 (talk) 16:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

You don't know what pop punk is.If it doesn't sound like blink 182 (who aren't pop punk) that doesn't mean that it has nothing to do with it. Pop punk is something like a happier and lighter punk rock. And melodic hardcore is a mix of that and hardcore punk.--188.26.60.184 (talk) 20:18, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Bands got removed from the list...?
I added some bands to the list recently, and someone deleted them, because they don´t have an article. Why?! Those bands are melodic hardcore though. I thought it´s the information which that list has to impart, it´s not just a collection of band links. More Than Life for example. I never heard a band having that pure melodic hardcore since times and you deleted them ?!?

By the way, I have to complain about the bands posted at the top of the discussion page.

For The Fallen Dream

It Prevails

Misery Signals

The Ghost Inside

Those bands are NOT melodic hardcore, they´re metalcore. Well, It Prevails and The Ghost Inside have some less melodic HC elements, but they´re bad examples. Melodic hardcore don´t has to be hard all way. Listen to Strike Anywhere, and you know what I mean. Some good album examples:

Rise Against - Revolutions Per Minute

Comeback Kid - Wake The Dead

More Than Life - Love Let Me Go

Miles Away - Endless Roads

and eventually

Strike Anywhere - Iron Front

Some of you guys really have to listen to that great genre... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.187.173 (talk) 17:48, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Why not Rise Against inclusion, yet Sum 41 is included?
Sum 41 is one of the most steriotypical pop-punk bands out there, and is in no way hardcore. Rise Against, however, was very much a melodic hardcore band, fitting the exact definition of a melodic hardcore on this page, especially in their albums Revolutions per minute, The Unraveling, and Siren Song of the Counter Culture. I am assuming that people editing this page are very biased towards the mindset of their latest two albums when deciding if they fit the description. I have little knowledge of Sum 41's past, and they at one time may have very well been a melodic hardcore band, so if this is the case, you must accept Rise Against to the list. --184.57.178.125 (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * When i added sum 41 a year ago i noted in brackets next to the band on the list the two albums which are melodic hardcore. rise against are prominant modern Melodic hardcore band and its weird they arn't involve. To be honest this list is completely unsourced and people just add bands when they please. Jonjonjohny (talk) 07:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Metalcore bands
Can someone take all the metal-core bands out of the list of bands, bands like Counterparts, The Ghost Inside, Hundredth, Shai Hulud, Misery Signals, It Prevails and For The Fallen Dreams sound nothing like the sound described in the article and they have nothing to do with hardcore. They are melodic metal-core because they are metal-core with some melodic elements. The argument of the sound changing over time is just plain wrong, when bands still play the "original" sound and new bands play a completely different sound that has nothing to do with the original one, they shouldn't be grouped together. Also there is no references to these bands playing melodic hardcore, so I don't understand why there are on the page. Rosscowderoy (talk) 02:35, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

List of melodic hardcore bands
lets blank the list of supposed melodic hardcore bands. That was ranging out of any melody like post-hardcroe, screamo and metalcore. I mean come on? Touche Amore? Shai Hulud?, are you high? you're just adding what you please just because. Lets concentate on developing melodic hardcore's article rather than add unsource and outlandish examples to the list. basicly the list has got very long with neither citation and no grouping. So we could base it on the band listing on Sludge metal. But that is if people can find the sources, dont just add bands to it. Jonjonjohny (talk) 09:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

http://newcastle.panthers.com.au/Entertainment/Live/The_Ghost_Inside http://www.revolvermag.com/lists-2/for-the-fallen-dreams-vocalist-dylan-richter-lists-his-most-terrifying-nightmares.html http://www.freedomainradio.com/Podcasts/PodcastList/tabid/72/ctl/ReadDefault/mid/434/ArticleId/4140/Default.aspx

These state that they are indeed Melodic Hardcore, and besides that it's just common knowledge. Genre's change over time and develop different styles, so please quit taking out the section on the newer melodic hardcore bands. Thanks! Musioline (talk) 21:46, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

README
It might help future discussions to note that there are essentially two distinct genres to have been dubbed "melodic hardcore".

The term was originally applied to a group of hardcore punk bands in the 80s who had begun to use clean vocals, melodic hooks, and whatnot. Bands like The Descendents, Bad Religion, Lifetime, and 7 Seconds; and later bands like Ignite and H2O. They sound a lot like pop punk (Not a disparagement, just a fact.) in part because many subsequent pop punk bands were heavily influenced by them.

The term has also been applied to a largely unrelated movement of hardcore bands, mostly coming out of the Youth Crew revival of the 90s, who incorporated melody into the guitar style in a particular way. (It's to hard describe in words, but it's pretty obvious what I mean if you listen to the bands.) Bands like Bane, Champion, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Have Heart, Verse, FC Five, etc. This is probably what most people today are referring to when they say "melodic hardcore".

Most argumentation in this article's talk page seems to be people talking past each other because they're using "melodic hardcore" in two different senses, and don't realize it. To people familiar with the modern usage, bands of the older style are "Just punk rock; not hardcore." To people familiar with the original usage, the newer bands are "Just modern hardcore; not melodic."

It's unfortunate that the same label has been applied to two different subgenres, but it's just how it is, and people who want to think themselves "in the know" should probably be aware of this reality.

Perhaps the article should better clarify all this? As it's currently written it looks like it's trying too hard to connect two largely unrelated subgenres, as if the later one was a direct outgrowth of the earlier one... and everyone's ears are telling them otherwise, thus the confusion.

Of course, bands are increasingly blurring the distinction between the two, an example being With Honor's album "This Is Our Revenge" (which incorporated melodic vocals into a band that was originally only melodic hardcore in the later sense of the term). So that sort of thing oughtta be mentioned as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.218.24.11 (talk) 00:00, 1 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I see where you're coming from, but in order to be used for the article, your thesis has to be verified by some sort of reliable source, otherwise it's just original research (your own analysis of the bands' sounds). Do you know of any articles, books or reviews that mention two different categories of melodic hardcore, or that (as you're implying) older melodic hardcore bands did not influence later ones?-- MA SHAUN IX 19:34, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Easycore
Shouldn't there be a individual subject on Easycore as Easycore is a form of Melodic Hardcore yet more specific as it is specifically Pop Punk that incorporates Metalcore like growls and Breakdowns. Da260712 (talk) 20:29, 4 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I Second this motion, easycore and melodic hardcore are extremely different genres and I don't understand the current redirect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Issan Sumisu (talk • contribs) 20:42, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

Not a real genre, rather a brazilian invention
Hi guys. I'm pretty sure that whoever created this page is somebody from brazil because here we had the unfortunate idea of calling every genre as "melodic". Like instead of saying Power Metal we called it "metal melódico", and this was the same think literally with every genre. I think this definition is pretty much irrelevant to people from the anglosphere. And noticed how there's not one single reasonable source calling bands like nofx, bad religion, pennywise, etc as "melodic hardcore" bands. Even the links that try to link such bands to the genre dont have such information. This is my suggestion, not only remove this page, but any reference to melodic hardcore from english wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.113.238.184 (talk) 06:53, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Deleted
(Deleted)