Talk:Melodrama (Lorde album)

"Green Light" draft
I don't want the article to be nominated for deletion too soon, so I started a draft for "Green Light" at Draft:Green Light (Lorde song). All are welcome to help expand! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 23:46, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Genre
I have seen persistence from both those who push for "pop" as the genre for this album, as well as in depth sub genres that define the album well. I feel labelling the album wholly as "pop" does it a bit of injustice. The album on all streaming services was released by her and her label Lava and Republic under the "alternative" genre, keeping the emphasis on non conformity lyrically and musically. Many articles cited in the Composition section describe the album as industrial, glitchy electropop, synth pop, alternative pop, electronica. I think these sub genres should not be ignored.

The producers involved with the album have almost exclusive experience producing synth pop, electronic pop, downtempo, EDM, alternative rock/pop, hip hop, new wave, indie pop, trip hop and experimental. Not to say that these ALL should be included, but while the album is integrated in pop music, it embarks on a few other styles that keep her music unique and appealing.

Upon initial release, I noticed that it was labelled as "Art pop" here on wikipedia, and it was then taken down and replaced with Pop, which I still do not understand why people enjoy taking away important edits.

Many people have been blocked by simply attempting to change the genre from something other than pop which breaks my heart, especially when people are providing sources from acclaimed publications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exposur (talk • contribs) 05:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Rate Your Music, the source used, is credible? No. The only confirmed genre is pop, which is more encompassing anyway. It's not a meaningful edit if it is not from a reliable source and untrue. A few genres I would like to discuss: Idolator says, and I quote, "Melodrama is as cathartic as the name suggests and a solid listen that effortlessly hops genres while remaining true to Lorde’s melancholic alt-pop roots". Can we interpret this as Idolator saying the album is alt-pop? Can we interpret this radio article as saying the album is synth-pop? Or this USA Today article eluding to the album consisting of electropop tunes? I'd like to think so, at least for Idolator source, but I want other input. Sidenote: THE SONGS were cited as "glitchy electropop", etc., or whatever. Not the album. Until a reliable source is given/added saying the album's genre is more than pop, please do not add other things.  Aleccat  05:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Electropop source: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/06/lorde-melodrama-review.html - ElectricController (talk page) 19:51, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, Paste is credible. My issue was unreliable sources were being used. -- Aleccat  20:08, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You have not gotten consensus for your changes to move electropop first. Please do this before changing again. you may be interested to know this editor is continuing to move electropop first, despite your conclusion that pop is more encompassing.  Ss  112  07:06, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the week-late response, but I don't think the order matters. As long as the genres are properly cited, they can be added, and so far, only "electropop" and "pop" are cited.  Aleccat  18:05, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I MUST agree with the first user. The album should not be classified as a pop album, since it is not. I have been witness of how my references are erased after providing good sources, probably the BEST ones in music world, Billboard and Itunes, both classify the album as Alternative. Clearly, this is not a pop kind of music, it is quite influenced by electronic music or pop on some songs though. On the other hand you do not cite sources for those genres and only insist on erasing correct information. If you really want to be neutral and not to express your viewpoint, stop doing that. For example you classify as genres electropop, however this is a subgenre and therefore it should not be included here. Citations for Alternative music genre. https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/melodrama/id1211010237 Alternative. Now, if you prefer keeping lying to yourselves and state that it is pop, Then go ahead. But do not expect people to take Wikipedia's information seriously. The least you could do is not to erase since we do not erases the Pop tag.
 * Pop is sourced in the composition section in the article. All you have linked to is Lorde's charting on the Billboard Alternative Songs chart. That's quite a broad genre chart, and that's not a critic calling Lorde or this album "alternative". Also, I'm assuming you're referring to iTunes' categorisation of Lorde as "Alternative"; again, this is a generic tag. This is multiple editors' view point, not just mine; you were also reverted by Aleccat. I think we're well aware electropop is a subgenre, but you don't really appear to have read past the first few lines of what the editor who created this section wrote; they appear to disagree with your assertion that electropop should not be included.  Ss 112  12:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * and Thoughts on the alt-pop source described above?  Aleccat  12:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, What do you want to think exactly? A review that classifies the album as Alt-pop. That's it. Here's another one considering it. https://prettymuchamazing.com/reviews/lorde-melodrama — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadriensaori (talk • contribs) 13:01, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That source doesn't say "alt-pop" or "alternative pop". I wanted to know thoughts on the Idolator source/how to interpret it, I have mixed feelings. -- Aleccat  13:03, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2017
Lorde's album started in April of 2016, she wrote sober as one of the first songs, along with melodrama (sober II). 2A02:2F0A:401F:FFFF:0:0:BC1A:8257 (talk) 16:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 00:39, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Concept album
How do we approach the contradiction currently in the article stating that Melodrama is a loose concept album, then including that Lorde said it is not a concept album, but a loose narrative? Should we include it in the "Concept album" category? Furthermore, should we include that crtiics opined that it is a concept album? -- Aleccat  17:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we can point out the contradiction on the article itself, sure. We can say something along the lines of "Lorde did not intend Melodrama to be a concept album, instead stating that it has a loose narrative. However, certain critics felt that it had an overall concept", then cite those who did.  Ss 112  17:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Completed. While we are on the subject, how would we include in recording that it was initially about aliens, according to The Indpendent source I added? -- Aleccat  17:57, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hm... maybe just note in a sentence that she had made a statement that it was going to be conceptual/about something different than it ended up being.  Ss 112  18:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Removed text
I've removed the following text from the "Grammy awards" section because the text is off-topic for the article, which is about Melodrama, not Lorde's protest or politics of the music industry. It is well-written and I'd encourage editors to move it to Lorde, 60th Annual Grammy Awards or another suitable article. Cheers,  Baffle gab1978  03:04, 28 April 2018 (UTC) Many sources noted that Lorde's Grammy loss, along with a string of losses from other women, including Kesha, Lady Gaga and SZA, sparked a gender equality debate in a year where movements such as Time's Up and Me Too along with stories from victims of sexual assault, were brought into view in the media. Sonja Yelich, Lorde's mother, posted a picture of a piece written by The New York Times stating that out of the "899 people nominated in the last six Grammy Awards", only 9 percent were women. Lorde published a newspaper advert on The New Zealand Herald a day after the ceremony thanking readers for "believing in female musicians".

Grammy president Neil Portnow and executive producer Kenneth Ehrlich were asked about the ceremony's underrepresentation of women, and in particular the absence of Lorde from performing on stage. At a press briefing backstage at Madison Square Garden, Portnow stated, "It's hard to have a balanced year and have everyone perform." He later followed his statement by saying, "We can't have every nominee perform." Elrich added, "These shows are always a matter of choices. She had a great album, but there's no way we can deal with everybody. Maybe people get left out who shouldn't, but we do the best we can to make sure it's a fair and balanced show." His response was met with criticism from Pink, Charli XCX, Sheryl Crow and Katy Perry. Portrow followed up his statement after backlash from the public, stating that his choice of words were taken out of context and expressed regret over not being as "articulate" as he should have been.

Concept album
According to this source in the article, although Lorde denied the album being a "concept album", it stated that she did recognise the loose storyline that connected all songs together. I think this should be interpolated as "although that the record was a concept album was denied by Lorde, she did realise that the album had a loose storyline" or something similar. She did not completely reject the idea after all. — HĐ (talk) 03:49, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I think this part sums up your points well, "...Though it has been denied by Lorde, music critics have described Melodrama as a loose concept album. Lorde has stated that Melodrama has only a loose narrative..." It mentions that Lorde herself denies the concept album claim then clarifies her stance while also noting how critics view her album. De88 (talk) 07:23, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 14 May 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move. (non-admin closure) —  Young Forever (talk)   21:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Melodrama (Lorde album) → Melodrama (album) – As of now, there are 3 other albums with the same name: Melodrama (The Crash album), Melodrama (Joel Kroeker album) and Melodrama (Vibe Tribe album). The latter is a redirect to the group's article. None of those records made appearances on any domestic or international charts. The Lorde album is the most notable record with this title name, as it has significant commercial (#1 in 4 major music markets) and critical recognition (multiple appearances on major music publications' end of year and decade lists). De88 (talk) 20:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Better discuss first. Also, are any of the albums named here, anything like a melodrama? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, the Lorde album does in fact take inspiration from the definition of a melodrama but its narrative is devoted to another topic (heartbreak and solitude). The others, however, I do not know. De88 (talk) 22:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Incomplete disambiguation is generally a bad idea; it does not really help readers if a disambiguation term is needed anyway. I'm only aware of two such WP:PDAB cases for albums, and they are for really extremely well known albums: Thriller (album) and My Generation (album). WP:ALBUMDAB does not recommend such usage. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:22, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * A similar move happened with Future Nostalgia. One other album exists with that name from 2015 (Future Nostalgia (The Sheepdogs album). I have seen several albums have successful request moves in the past. This is not limited to "extremely well known albums". The Lorde album has more notability than other albums of the same name. De88 (talk) 06:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * There is an important difference for Future Nostalgia. The title of that article does not include "(album)", like what is suggested here, so that is not a case of incomplete disambiguation. It is an ordinary case of a primary topic without disambiguation. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose per BarrelProof. I still don't see any upside to partial disambiguation. It's still disambiguation... just more ambiguous. Obviously people feel differently, but in my view, it seems a bit self-defeating. I'll probably go to my grave regretting my failure to oppose that Thriller move. Nohomersryan (talk) 00:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently I was not paying attention either during the 6th RM discussion for that page, or maybe I was just tired. I expressed opposition to the same proposal in the 5th move discussion, but in the 6th, a non-admin closer overruled 6 objections (against ~9 supporting) to declare a consensus. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose intentional incomplete disambiguation is of no benefit to the project or its readers. -- Netoholic @ 07:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose per BarrelProof, Nohomersryan and Netoholic. Incomplete disambiguation is definitely to be avoided. Votes at another currently active nomination (Bye Bye Birdie (film) → Bye Bye Birdie (1963 film) [analogous to Bye Bye Birdie (1995 film)] at Talk:Bye Bye Birdie (film)) appear to be overwhelmingly in favor of eliminating the WP:INCDAB. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose as there are two other albums that have this title and Wikipedia articles, and while there may be an argument that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for Melodrama (album), I think it would be best to keep the disambiguation given the existence of multiple album articles with this name. Aoba47 (talk) 02:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Useful sources

 * https://www.soundonsound.com/people/jack-antonoff

— HĐ (talk) 06:20, 16 October 2020 (UTC)