Talk:Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

Untitled
Rolled back last change as it was pasted from this site, which is copyrighted. Needs paraphrased and wikified - Crosbiesmith 6 July 2005 21:16 (UTC)

Technical problem with image
Image:Liberty 1 by bencwright.jpg 	 shows up in red in the article, but I can't find it to fix it. Osomec 13:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Merger
This page is for the architectural value of this building, not the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center as an institution. This page SHOULD NOT be merged as its about the historical value of a offical new york landmark, not the current institution it is now.


 * Vice versa, seems to me, with the present article being for the modern organization, and New York Cancer Hospital for the old building and the founding of the organization. Anway I agree with our anonymous commentator that the merger between these two moderately large articles is a bad idea.  Jim.henderson (talk) 01:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Punk Song
Is probably neither notable nor particularly appropriate for a song about one of the top cancer centers in the country/world 74.79.243.131 (talk) 18:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)GMM

COI
Lots of conflicted editing on this article. See above and Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard Jytdog (talk) 21:42, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
 * ...which eventually got archived to Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/Archive 83. DMacks (talk) 21:49, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Template
Jytdog, I'm going to revert to the other version. First, one of the names is repeated. Second, it looks odd to repeat all the combinations of A = B = C. The point is that this was one person with three names. Sarah (talk) 21:46, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Also in template news, I'm working on getting Connected contributor to support more than 10 entries. DMacks (talk) 21:47, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks DMacks. Slim, thanks for catching the typo. It was a lot of work going through and logging all the COI/promo editing that has gone on this article, and I goofed in the course of that.  In any case, it is great you are taking an interest in seeing how these tags actually are  used.  About the three usernames for the same apparent person... there is value in having the relevant username in the "User" field" - we lose information by condensing three accounts into one entry.  The point is that we have three COI accounts, each with their own contribs, Talk page, history etc. Others listed there could be her as well. Jytdog (talk) 21:54, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, fair enough, thanks for explaining. Sarah (talk) 22:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Jytdog, what makes you believe that these were all COI editors? Curlyosity6 made two edits, one of which made no obvious change, and the second of which was this. 140.251.48.39 geolocates to Joan and Sanford I. Weill Medical College and made only two innocuous edits to this article. Sarah (talk) 01:20, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Look at a map.Jytdog (talk) 01:51, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Improving the history section
I've been working with MSK to improve the quality of information in the history section. I've drafted something up in my sandbox, and I'm looking for feedback as to whether or not it's NPOV-compliant and sufficiently cited. , if you've got a moment, would you mind taking a look? I'd value your input especially since you've been so involved in this article in the past.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 02:48, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * the first sentence in the history section is not supported by the source. the second sentence is sourced somewhere in this document (which you didn't link to) and don't provide a page number for. I stopped there. Jytdog (talk) 03:43, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * also please provide complete citations for everything, including books, and page numbers for books. the WP software lets you go find books online so that content can be verified, if the editor supplies the ISBN.  And there is a link to the Heller article at the NY Times, here.  If you want people to volunteer their time so you can make money and MSK can publicize itself, please make it easy on them, not hard.  thanks. Jytdog (talk) 03:51, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * and please do not include any unsourced promotional content, like "Innovations continued under the Sloan-Kettering Institute, including the first computerized treatment plan program in the US.". And please do not use flowery language like "In 1915 the hospital also began a radiation department which would become the cornerstone of radiation therapy as a cancer treatment".  That may please MSK but it is not what we do here.  Think "vanilla", not "color". Jytdog (talk) 03:51, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback! I've been working on your suggestions. I didn't realize that WP would provide links to books if the ISBN is provided, so thank you for the tip. I'm working on ensuring there are viewable links to as many references as possible, as well as removing the flowery language. I also wanted to tell you that I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to keep me honest. I do try to keep the content I write as well-sourced and neutral as I can, but by its nature, I do have a conflict of interest. Your willingness to collaborate with me helps ensure that Wikipedia remains as neutral as possible, and I hope that I can help demonstrate an ethical approach to paid advocacy.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 01:11, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You are welcome, and thanks for being open to feedback. Jytdog (talk) 01:12, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've made your recommended edits: removing the flowery language, providing references for all the added material, and providing links for the NYT articles. I also added extra references where previously the only source was MSK's website. Would you mind taking another look?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 00:47, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Several things:
 * When did Coley pioneer that funky immunotherapy? you imply he did that while he was at MSK.
 * Just like the WP software formats a link to ISBNs, it formats a link to the pubmed ID of medical journal articles. Here is the pmid for the NEJM article you cite: . It is very useful to use that.  Pubmed also often has links to free versions of articles, and it has one to this source.
 * You didn't provide the ISNB for On the Cancer Frontier: One Man, One Disease, and a Medical Revolution
 * The pmid for James Ewing Society, 1940-1969: Presidential Address is
 * Where can I get "Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases Thirty First Annual Report for the Year 1915"? to verify the information sourced to it?
 * Where can i get " "General Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases Eighteenth Annual Report for the Year 1902"" to verify the information sourced to it?
 * Where can I get ""Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Annual Report, 1977" to verify the information sourced from it?
 * why do you not provide the link for this press release?
 * the current citation #32 to El Mundo - I can't find that.  Where did you find that?
 * please do not use words like "current" or "recent" or "today" see WP:RELTIME
 * that is just reviewing sources.. will start reading now. Jytdog (talk) 02:07, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the additional feedback. I've added the PMID numbers you provided (I wasn't familiar with the system there, so again, thank you for the tip) and the missing ISBNs. I also provided links to the HemOnc release and El Mundo article. I hadn't provided them initially because a lot of the resources I've been using are scans from MSK's archives. To that end, I wasn't able to find online copies of the cited MSK annual reports, but they are in the public domain. Ordinarily I'd think it's a bit excessive, but since you've been so helpful, I can provide the scans of the relevant pages if you're really intent on seeing them. Regarding your question about Coley, the provided source says the first trials occurred in 1891. This article says the same. As for your comments about WP:RELTIME, I removed the "current" from "director of SKI". Do you have any suggestions on how to retitle the subsection?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 22:11, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

article update
I've been working with a paid editor, User:FacultiesIntact to revise this article in their sandbox User:FacultiesIntact/sandbox/Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. I reviewed their work painstakingly and did a bunch of editing of my own on it as well. This is in my view a neutral and well sourced update. I over-wrote the article with the sandboxed version today in this dif.  If anybody is not comfortable with this in any way, happy to discuss. Jytdog (talk) 01:22, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

US News ranking
MSK maintained their ranking as the #2 cancer hospital in the nation for 2017-2018, per the latest rankings. Would someone without a COI mind making the update in the Reputation section?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ Jytdog (talk) 23:06, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Adding images to the article
MSK released some archival photos for use on the article, and I went ahead and mocked up a layout in my sandbox. I thought they help tell the visual story of the hospital throughout its many forms and locations. Can someone take a look and offer an opinion? It's an additional 4 images, but I don't think it's too visually cluttered or otherwise overwhelming.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 23:23, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ I think that works, all down the right side. Not sure how well that will work on mobile, but looks fine on a desktop. Jytdog (talk) 17:50, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks for the help! Any chance you're still interested in looking at some BLPs for some of the MSK doctors? I know it's a lot, but I appreciate your critical eye.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 20:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Minor update proposals
I noticed a few little things on the article that could use updating, but I'd like to refrain from directly editing due to my COI. In the lead paragraph, Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (1980–present) section, and the Training section respectively:
 * Current text: MSKCC is the largest and oldest private cancer center in the world, and is one of 47 National Cancer Institute-designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers.
 * Proposed text: MSKCC is the largest and oldest private cancer center in the world, and is one of 70 National Cancer Institute-designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers.
 * Reason: There are currently 70 NCI-designated centers, an increase from the previously stated 47.
 * ✅. GregorB (talk) 16:55, 8 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Current text: In 2012, Thompson appointed José Baselga as physician-in-chief, who directs the clinical side of MSK.
 * Proposed text: In 2012, Thompson appointed José Baselga as physician-in-chief, who directed the clinical side of MSK.
 * Reason: Baselga is no longer serving as physician-in-chief, and the past tense "directed" should be used instead of "directs" in order to reflect that.
 * ✅. MV928 (talk)


 * Current text: MSK currently employs over 1,000 physicians and treats more than 600,000 patients with approximately 400 types of cancer annually.
 * Proposed text: MSK currently employs over 1,000 physicians and treats patients with approximately 400 types of cancer annually.
 * Reason: The cited reference doesn't make any mention of the number of patients treated. I wasn't able to find an alternative source for the information either. Do you have any insight as to where that figure came from?
 * ✅. MV928 (talk)


 * Current text: The Tri-Institutional MD–PhD Program is a partnership of MSKCC, Weill Cornell Medicine, and The Rockefeller University. The dual degree program takes advantage of the close proximity of these three institutions for collaboration on biomedical research and medical training.
 * Proposed text: The Tri-Institutional MD–PhD Program is a partnership of MSKCC, Weill Cornell Medicine, and The Rockefeller University. The dual degree program takes advantage of the close proximity of these three institutions for collaboration on biomedical research and medical training. MSKCC also has an academic partnership with Weill Cornell Medicine known as the Weill Cornell Graduate School of Medical Sciences.
 * Reason: The Graduate School of Medical Sciences is a partnership that is distinct from the Tri-Institutional program despite involving two of the same members. It also has its own Wikipedia article, so I think it's notable enough for inclusion.
 * ✅. MV928 (talk)

I know you two have been somewhat active on here. If either of you, or anyone else, has the time to spare could you take a look? I'd greatly appreciate it.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 17:54, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , I'll review the rest of the proposed changes. Meanwhile, any thoughts on this edit? It's plausible, but it needs a source. GregorB (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the assist! As far as that edit goes, it's technically true (the U.S. World and News ranking used to be on the article). That said, I'm under the impression that it would fall under these relatively recent guidelines from WP:Hospital and thus should be removed, especially without a good source.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , sorry I got sidetracked at the expense of doing the rest of the changes, fortunately MV928 beat me to it.
 * I've removed the ratings claim per your suggestion, based on the recent discussion you had referred to. The guideline in question does not rule against all ratings, though, and Memorial Sloan Kettering is a major hospital, so I believe conforming (and sourced!) ratings should not be difficult to find. GregorB (talk) 08:59, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Minor Article Updates
Here are a few more straight forward updates on the article, but I won't directly edit due to my COI. In the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center (1980–present) section, the Training section, and Associated facilities and programs section respectively:  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chefmikesf (talk • contribs) 23:39, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

#1

Current Content: MSK has expanded into regional sites including Westchester (NY), Commack (Long Island), Hauppauge (Long Island), Rockville Centre (Long Island), Bergen (NJ), Monmouth (NJ), and Basking Ridge (NJ).

Proposed Content: MSK has expanded into regional sites including Westchester (NY), Commack (Long Island), Hauppauge (Long Island), Rockville Centre (Long Island), Nassau (Long Island), Bergen (NJ), Monmouth (NJ), and Basking Ridge (NJ).

Reason: Update the list to its most current state.


 * ✅ - a routine update to the most recent state. GregorB (talk) 19:10, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

#2

Request: In the "1980-present" section, add content about CAR-T approval.

Proposed Content: In 2017, the Food and Drug Administration approved an MSK-developed immunotherapy, CAR-T, for certain applications in leukemia  and lymphoma. The FDA approved the first academic or commercial tumor identification test MSK-IMPACT in November 2018.

Reason: Add important information for society about new immunotherapy and tumor identification test.


 * Although primary sources are used here, I'd say this is fine as long as they are used in a supporting role, along with non-primary sources, and that they are not unduly self-promoting. Is there a non-primary source specifically for the lymphoma statement? GregorB (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I added the Wired and GEN article that should tie the story together with secondary sources. Can you let me know if we need any other sources?-Chefmikesf (talk) 18:31, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for the feedback on this request. While I put together the list of references for the request #2, could you take a look at request #3 and #4? The last two updates are factual updates using the same sources previously citing in the content.-Chefmikesf (talk) 18:19, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The sources are fine now, I have just one more remark: the FDA source provided above in support of leukemia statement (Commissioner, Office of the (2019-09-10). "FDA approves CAR-T cell therapy to treat adults with certain types of large B-cell lymphoma". FDA.) seems to actually support the lymphoma statement, so I suppose it had a secondary source all along, but I've overlooked it. Please review and rearrange if necessary, and I'll copy the content into the article. GregorB (talk) 09:28, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The content looks good to me. Please proceed! Thank you.Chefmikesf (talk) 13:45, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ with all proposed changes, thanks! GregorB (talk) 17:11, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

#3

Request: In the "Training" section, add the number of postdocs and PhD candidates.

Current Content: Approximately 1,700 medical residents and Fellows are in training at MSK.

Proposed Content: Approximately 1,700 medical residents and Fellows are in training at MSK. There are 575 postdoctoral researchers training at MSK labs and a combined 288 PhD and MD-PhD candidates.

Reason: Give more detailed information about the number of postdocs and PhD candidates for better context.


 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 20:50, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

#4

Request: In the "Associated facilities and programs" section, please add content about the Center for Image-Guided Intervention and Sillerman Center

Current Content: The Memorial Sloan Kettering Bendheim Integrative Medicine Center occupies 1429 First Avenue on the corner of East 74th Street in Manhattan. The former bank was built in the 1930s by Perkins and Will as architects. It was remodeled for use by Memorial Sloan Kettering in 1997.

Proposed Content: The Memorial Sloan Kettering Bendheim Integrative Medicine Center occupies 1429 First Avenue on the corner of East 74th Street in Manhattan. The former bank was built in the 1930s by Perkins and Will as architects. It was remodeled for use by Memorial Sloan Kettering in 1997. The Center for Image-Guided Intervention was opened in June 2010 in the Memorial Hospital building to oversee image guiding activities across MSK. In October 2012, the Sillerman Center for Rehabilitation was opened, moving rehabilitation out of Memorial Hospital and closer to the Rockefeller Outpatient Pavillion.

Reason: This gives more information on MSK's additional facilities in a relatively deficient section.


 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 19:29, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

I see both of you have helped my former colleague user:FacultiesIntact with similar updates in the past. Does anyone have time to review these updates? I appreciate any feedback or assistance.--Chefmikesf (talk) 22:13, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I will review the above updates, hopefully within a couple of days. The article is on my watchlist now. GregorB (talk) 20:50, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I appreciate you reviewing and updating the article.--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:50, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help, always appreciated. Can you take a look at one small edit to FacultiesIntact's update? I think he may have missed this earlier in the year.--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:53, 13 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Current text: MSK currently employs over 1,000 physicians and treats patients with approximately 400 types of cancer annually.
 * Proposed text: MSK currently employs over 1,200 physicians and treats patients with approximately 400 types of cancer annually.
 * Reason: The number of physicians has increased. This is relevant to the section and the reader.
 * ✅ GregorB (talk) 10:58, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help GregorB Chefmikesf (talk) 19:59, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

missing info about treatment costs for patients and scandals
No mention at all of treatment costs for patients! I came here looking for this info because of this comment in the Washington Post:

"Sloan-Kettering set my dad adrift when his money ran out. I had naively believed that the Rockefeller Foundation would not let that happen."

While looking for info about this elsewhere, i discovered that there are serious scandals that this article ignores, including Paige.AI and Raskin https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/03/memorial-sloan-kettering-betrayed-my-trust/

--Espoo (talk) 05:11, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

MSK Logo Section
Hello WP:Medicine, Would anyone be open to take a look at the article, specifically the MSK Logo section? I noticed an unconfirmed user, WQ25 added the new section to the article. I assume it was good faith but the section fails to meet Wikipedia's guidelines. The section contains no references and looks like it is from Quora. See Here. I suggest we remove the section from the article.--Chefmikesf (talk) 19:31, 21 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help with this article. This is one of the WP:HOS high priority hospitals. I would first start by searching for sourcing to support the content in the Logo section.  WP:HOS  -- Talk to G Moore 00:11, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Should the Hospital's Specialty be Cancer or Oncology in the Infobox hospital. I would argue in favor of Oncology.  I have corrected this on several other Cancer Center articles.


 * Should there not be a link on Urgent care center in the infobox to define what is meant using another article?


 * I think that this article is close to meeting the class=B criteria. It is comprehensive and well sourced.  Are there departments in the hospital that might be listed or discussed?   What specialties are covered?   Are there national medical rankings of the hospital that are worth mentioning in the article?

-- Talk to G Moore 00:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Hello G. Moore,


 * First, Thank you for your interest in the article. I've conducted further research into the MSKCC logo content and am pretty disappointed with my search. The search took me a few days. I started on Google, then took my search to online library databases. I found only two sources, and both are the same exact text copied from another site. The second major red flag is one of these sources is on a Wikipedia Blacklist for spam so I cannot add it to the talk page. To me this is obvious plagiarism, Wikipedia:Plagiarism. My recommendation stands to remove the content from the article for now.
 * Here are the sources: [NOTE:One site is on a Wikipedia Blacklist. Cannot add it to the talk page] https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-Memorial-Sloan-Kettering-logo-mean

--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

2020 Article Updates
Hello G. Moore,

Second, In response to your suggestions:
 * 1) Yes to Oncology in the Infobox
 * 2) Can you rephrase your question about the urgent care center? Memorial Sloan Kettering does have a urgent care center
 * 3) If we make the updates I am suggesting below, I'd be comfortable upgrading the article to class=B.

Article Updates

1.

Content Addition: Please add to the end of the content in the current section. The New York Proton Center opened in 2019 as a partnership between Memorial Sloan Kettering, Montefiore Health, and Mount Sinai Health. The center was the first Proton therapy center to open in New York State. The David H. Koch Center for Cancer Care at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center opened at 524 East 74th Street between York Avenue and the FDR Drive January 2020. Perkins Eastman designed 750,000sq ft facility in collaboration with Ennead Architects, and ICRAVE.

2.

Minor Additions: Please add a See also section above the References section.
 * |Weill Cornell Graduate School of Medical Sciences
 * |Weill Cornell Medicine
 * |Tri-Institutional MD–PhD Program
 * |National Comprehensive Cancer Network

3.

Minor Additions: Please add two links to the External links section.
 * Sloan Kettering Institute
 * Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Library

--Chefmikesf (talk) 18:56, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello G. Moore, Any thoughts on the updates and the comments about MSKCC Logo?--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:10, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I inserted the additions above into the article.  Without a valid reference to support the text about the Logo, we have to leave this text out.  -- Talk to G Moore 00:16, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

4.


 * Hello and, thank you for update this page. What should we do to sort out the notable faculty related to the hospital, such as the President. The introduction of its past presidents on the official website is divided into four parts :

--Htmlzycq (talk) 01:00, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * after 1980:
 * Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
 * Memorial Hospital for Cancer and Allied Diseases
 * Sloan Kettering Institute
 * Hello Htmlzycq, Thnak you for taking interest with the President's section of notable facility. This sub-section was added about a week ago so I don't have a position yet. I need some time to gather information to come up with a suggestion.
 * To me, I'm concerned about the MSK logo section. The content is not sourced and clearly plagiarized. I've recommended its removal or the content trimmed and folded into the history section. AND the brand name is wrong in the section. There should be no hyphen. Would you be open to review the Logo section first while I research the President's section?--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:27, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello Chefmikesf, In my opinion, MSK logo section, this part is too trivial to Wikipedia. It can be summed up in one sentence on logo caption of infobox.--Htmlzycq (talk) 21:40, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you Htmlzycq, would you mind removing the MSKCC logo section and adding the sentence to the Infobox?--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * You can carry it out. After all, English is not my native language--Htmlzycq (talk) 22:14, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Htmlzycq I'm afraid I cannot. I have a COI with MSKCC so I will not directly edit. What are your thoughts on just removing the section based on WP:PLAGIARISM and NO WP:RELIABILITY--Chefmikesf (talk) 22:26, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

There is no parameter "logo_caption" in Template:Infobox hospital. Embarrassing! --Htmlzycq (talk) 00:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I see. Regardless of the "logo_caption" in Template, the section is not Wikipedia compliant. My suggestion stands to remove the section.--Chefmikesf (talk) 21:37, 28 October 2020 (UTC)✅--Htmlzycq (talk) 01:08, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

National Cancer Institute–designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers error
I noticed an error in the lead paragraph. The National Cancer Institute has designated Cancer Centers and designated Comprehensive Cancer Centers. The current article has 70 but when I read the reference, I found otherwise. The correct number is 51. Can someone update this? Maybe Htmlzycq?

"51 are Comprehensive Cancer Centers, also recognized for their leadership and resources, in addition to demonstrating an added depth and breadth of research, as well as substantial transdisciplinary research that bridges these scientific areas."

--Chefmikesf (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

, ✅--Htmlzycq (talk) 21:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Reverted? Is there a way to variable-ize common shared values? The count is off in other articles, too. 2600:1700:8A14:1A70:6C23:8B0B:4E26:9353 (talk) 05:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)