Talk:Men's TNA Tag Team Championship/Archive 1

Photo of the Championship
http://mattboom.smugmug.com/gallery/2851460/1/152919829/Medium

Obviously we can't post it in the articles, but this is just for those who want to see it. The other titles are there too, but not as close. Mshake3 14:25, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

.
It has been made clear over and over that TNA Wrestling will continue to recognize the history of the World Tag Team Titles starting with AJ Styles & Jerry Lynn winning a Tournament Final in July 2002, as was the case tonight when Mike Tenay and Konnan both made references to LAX as World Tag Team Champions and losing the titles to Team 3D. So Team 3D weren't the "first" anything in TNA Wrestling. If TNA Wrestling continues to recognize the history, shouldn’t we recognize it here at Wikipedia? The only thing that changed was the physical appearance of the titles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.239.231.59 (talk) 20:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No it hasn't. They reconize previous tag champions as tag team champions, but not TNA Tag Team Champions. They are NOT the same titles. If they were the same, why would TNA consider Cage as a 3 time world champion? 2 time NWA and 1 time TNA. TJ Spyke 01:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * TJ Spyke … I’m sorry to inform you but your “theory” is wrong, and it was clearly an error on TNAWrestling.com‘s staff. On Christian Cage’s profile, he is listed as a 3x World Heavyweight Champion, but if you read down the page in his profile, it says he had two World Heavyweight Championship reigns, going by your “theory“, wouldn‘t they have put in there is was awarded as the 1st TNA Champion?  On a side note, If you look at Team 3D’s profile, they are not listed as 2x World Tag Team Champions (1 NWA and 1 TNA), they are listed as being 1x World Tag Team Champions in TNA Wrestling. (Considering they won the NWA Tag Team Titles a month before the split and according to you, were “awarded“ as the first TNA Tag Team Champions) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.239.231.59 (talk) 20:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No my "theory" is not. I presented the facts that we know. TJ Spyke


 * Just an idea, but is it possible we include the history of the World Tag Team Titles, starting with AJ Styles and Jerry Lynn winning the tournament final on July 03, 2002 and point out that TNA Wrestling and the NWA both recognized the champions, but the NWA dropped their recognition on May 13th?  TNA Wrestling always pointed out that Ken Shamrock and the team of AJ Styles & Jerry Lynn were the “first” recognized champions in TNA era.  There were several times since 2002 that when the World Champions were defending the titles outside of TNA, they were billed as “TNA Champions” and at times were billed as “NWA Champions”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNAWrestling (talk • contribs) 22:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * See my comments at Talk:TNA World Heavyweight Championship since the two are related. TJ Spyke 23:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * TJ Spyke, you did not present any facts, just your opinion. The facts are TNA Wrestling does not recognize Team 3D as 2x World Tag Team Champions in their profiles, they recognize them as 1x World Tag Team Champions.  The facts are TNA Wrestling only mentions two World Championship reigns in Christian Cage‘s profile, which means your “theory” of TNA Wrestling recognizing Christian Cage as a 3x World Heavyweight Champion (2 NWA and 1 TNA) hold not merit, and is just YOUR OPINION.  Why would Christian Cage be the ONLY profile on TNA Wrestling to make note of TNA/NWA title situation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by TNAWrestling (talk • contribs) 00:17, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Brother Ray and Brother Devon are now listed as 2-time World Tag Team Champions in their profiles. Maybe they just forgot to update their profiles. MC511 20:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't found any discussion of the information TNA provides here: http://www.tnawrestling.com/content/view/218/84/ I would think that if TNA provides their title histories that's what this article should reflect. Though pointing out differences from the official version as is the case with Wikipedia acknowledging Antonio Inoki a WWE Champion even though today WWE doesn't, through previously did. Fan2000 (talk) 03:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Joe's partner = new reign
Once Samoa Joe picks a partner, that will start a new reign as TNA World Tag Team Champions. MC511 23:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Same goes for Kurt Angle and Sting, new reign, Kurt's second reign as champion. MC511 00:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? It's not a different reign. It's not like Angle was forced to vacate the titles. BBoy 03:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Is there really a need for a list page at the moment? There's only been three champions. Give it a year, and then recreate it. The ROH World Championship contains a list. Same with NHL trophy pages, like the Hart Memorial Trophy, which is an FL. -- Scorpion0422 20:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

A merge seems like it would make sense. Okuzaone 04:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC) ]]
 * No, it doesn't if you were to do this why not merge the WWE Championship with it's list also this is not hockey, this is PROFESSIONAL wrestling, also regarding the ROH belt it's an indy belt albeit an indy belt and this is a major promotions title--KingMorpheus 17:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You really can't compare this with the WWE Championship because it has been around a LOT longer and the belt history has enough to sustain its own page. However in this case, there are only a couple of winners. Give it a year and then maybe there will be enough history. -- Scorpion0422 18:56, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Kurt Angle is a 2-TIME TNA World Tag Team Champion
I don't understand why Wikipedia always has to go against what TNA says, yet they treat WWE like gospel. The NWA/TNA situation I admit was confusing, but the TNA World Tag Team Titles serve no controversy, they are TNA titles and only TNA titles and only TNA history. Kurt Angle is a 2-time TNA World Tag Team Champion, one reign by himself, and one reign with Sting. Check out Kurt's profile page for yourself here: http://www.tnawrestling.com/roster/kurtangle/index.html We need to recognize this immediately. Plus, every other wrestling website on the Internet recognizes this as well, including OnlineWorldOfWrestling.com and Wrestling-Titles.com. MC511 06:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It is dumb as hell though, it's not like he lost the titles only to immediately win them back with Sting, or he vacated them. It's the same reign, he just got a partner after he initially won the titlesBBoy 01:30, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They also just changed his amount of World Heavyweight Titles won in the company back to two, I remember a couple weeks ago they put it as 1. In my opinion Angle's run as World Tag Team Champion should have not been recognized until he got a partner. TonyFreakinAlmeida 12:58, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Angle's reign as Tag Team Champion alone MUST be considered, since Samoa Joe's reign alone was considered. TNA also calls Kurt Angle an 11-time World Champion now for some reason, I can count 4-WWE, 1-WWE World, 1-WCW, 1-NWA (recognized by TNA), 1-TNA, 1-IWGP (recognized by IGF & TNA), what are the other 2 "World Titles"?  MC511 16:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What?! 11-time world champion?  The IGF belt can't even be considered a world title by IGF because they're apart of the NWA, NWA World Title = only world title in NWA.  Lets see, 11 world titles?  4-WWE, 1-WCW, 1-World(WWE), 1-TNA, 1-IWGP, 1-WWE Tag, 2-TNA Tag.  If you don't count the NWA reign(which you shouldn't IMO because it didn't happen, you could also sub the IWGP out for it), that's 11 "world" titles(heavyweight and tag combined from WWE and TNA and Japan) TonyFreakinAlmeida 16:10, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Kurt is including his 2 NCAA Titles, and his Gold medal to get to 11, remember, he is referring to his individual record, not tag teams.

(4 WWE + 2 NCAA + 1 IWGP + 1 TNA + 1 WCW + 1 World + 1 Gold medal = 11)

Ohgltxg 17:21 September 11 (always remember) 2007 (UTC)
 * TNA uses the term "former world champion" in reference to both World Tag and World Heavyweight Titles, maybe even in reference to the X division title as well, and if Angle said it on TNA TV, they probably told him to. TonyFreakinAlmeida 16:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, the NCAA can't be considered a world title, that's a national title, as evidenced by their name. A gold medal could be counted as they are competed for amongst athletes from all over the world, he beat an Iranian to win it as well.  If you go by what TNA recognizes as World Championships, those being both Tag and Heavyweight titles, Angle has 11 in a couple variations of the count. TonyFreakinAlmeida 16:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

How is his gold medal a World Heavyweight Championship? Lex94 10:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

You shouldn't go by what TNA's website says, because it also says Jay Lethal has only had 1 tna x division championship reign, when he is in his 2nd Lex94 11:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * that's because they take a while to update the wrestler's profiles. They still didn't updated ron killings profile either. Secretaria 14:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Complete mess of Lengths of Reigns tables
Someone needs to fix the tables that have the lengths of reigns. They're a complete mess right now. MC511 07:32, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

If nobody does I can get on it sometime this afternoon. TakerV1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TakerVersion1 (talk • contribs) 11:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's been fixed now. MC511 18:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Adam Jones
His ringname is Adam Jones. "Pacman" is just his nickname, they make sure to say Adam "Pacman" Jones. Anyone object? TJ Spyke 21:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No they have him listed on TNAwrestling.com roster page as "Pacman Jones," and so does NFL.com. It's the name he's been using ever since he was a little kid.  You can use Michael Sylvester Stallone as an example, he doesn't use Michael at all. MC511 05:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Reigns by Wrestler table
What is the point of it? I know there's been two solo tag champions so far, but still, they're each one reign as champion none the less. We don't have this kind of table for the World Tag of WWE or WWE Tag, so what's the point here? It's basically just going to be the same names over and over as with the Team Reigns table. TonyFreakinAlmeida 23:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Consequences Creed TNA tag team Champ?
He was just a substitute for a match. Should he really be considered a former tag champion? For instance, in WCW when William Regal substituted Brian Pillman in the Hollywood blondes the match they lost the titles he was never considered a former wcw tag team champion. Secretaria 14:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think he's considered a TNA World Tag Team Champion. MC511 (talk) 19:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Basically what I've been saying, replacements don't mean they're now champions. And the freebird rule thing is a bit out of hand to me, I seen a couple reigns on the World Tag(WWE) page noting that some guys had reigns because they replaced guys and the freebird rule went into effect.  If people are going to claim that those guys were tag champs due to the freebird rule allowing replacements and all that, then how come the companies themselves never note it, like the WWE?  Might as well make Randy Orton a one-time US champion with that logic, being that he won the title for Booker T, as a replacement. Sorry for the rant but the freebird rule is odd and some people don't understand it that well. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 05:53, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If Team Pacman won, then yea I guess he would become a tag champ because he would continue with him. But that was never the plan. 70.68.143.170 (talk) 17:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Top individual reigns
Does not mean seperate Angle and Sting, it means their reign as a team. Don't put them seperatley as TNA acknowlegdes Angles reign as one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Riseagainstowns (talk • contribs) 23:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Accrording to TNA Kaz and Eric young aren't former TNA World Tag Team Champions together.
According to TNAWrestling.com in their Roster section they make no reference of Kaz and Eric Young being TNA World Tag Team Champions together.

Kaz's Profile makes reference to his two X Division titles reigns but, not a tag title reign.

Eric Young's Profile Profile makes reference to his one (NWA) World Tag Team title reign w/ Robert Roode.

Which leads me to believe this is an unoffical title reign by TNA and will go unacknowledged. To further secure my point Petey Williams profile says he is a 2-time X Division Champion and both of those title changes happened on the same day. So why would TNA add Petey's reign and not Kaz and Eric Young's.

I'm not going to change the page because I don't know if this enough to go on so, I will let this go unedited for now.

Thoughts SuperCalo (talk) 19:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

few things
Kaz & Eric are former tag champs, TNA just hasn't updated their profiles, it happens. WWE does it too, if we were going simply off profiles then MVP wouldn't be a former tag champ and Matt Hardy wouldn't be current US champ.

Also, since when are we considering NWA tag title reigns TNA tag title reigns? cans omeone please direct me to this discussion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Herotastic (talk • contribs) 03:20, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

NWA and TNA titles
Why are we listing the NWA World Tag Team Championship as a "alternate name" of this championship? clearly when NWA and TNA broke their deal the NWA "stripped" their titles from TNA, both championships have different lineages and we shouldn't include any of TNA's NWA Tag Team reigns in this list, those should be on List of NWA World Tag Team Champions. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  03:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. It seems to be the latest development in an ongoing (and slightly ridiculous) disagreement on Wikipedia over whether TNA-era NWA champions should be considered TNA champs. Jeff Silvers (talk) 04:17, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Remove NWA Belt History
Different Belts Different Articles the NWA tag Belt history (even while it was Under TNA Name) has no place in this article When the WCW World Heavyweight Championship was created the NWA Belt wasn't counted in its lineage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.97.44 (talk) 04:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The only problem is that TNA's title histories seem to retroactively recognize NWA era champions as TNA champions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.13.193 (talk) 19:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. They're two separate titles.  Revisionism isn't real history.  Just like we put how the WWWF title changed hands unofficially to Inoki at one point here, the WWE never acknowledges that at all on their official title history.  The NWA heavyweight and tag titles are separate from the TNA heavyweight and tag titles.  They're not the same. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 21:27, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

What if TNA publishes a title hsitory that says that all previous reigns were TNA title reigns? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.6 (talk) 16:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter. It's revisionism.  Since this is an encyclopedia...you can't just go back and rewrite history.  It can be noted that TNA considers NWA World Tag Team Champions under their promotion as "TNA" World Tag Champions, but that doesn't make it true.  It's like how WWE doesn't recognize many ECW and Light Heavyweight Title reigns.  These happened, just because the WWF/E doesn't want to talk about them or list them on their web site doesn't mean we have to discredit them.  Thus we have to recognize it both ways.  We can't discount reigns that actually happened, and we must discount when a company tries to revise history. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 20:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Rasheed Creed
Rasheed Creed should be credited with being a champion for one day via the Freebird Rule in Team Pacman. Just list him as one day reign and note that TNA does not officially recognize the reign, like Kaz and Super Eric. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.193.234 (talk) 04:28, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No he can't be actually. He only replaced Pacman. Just because he was in Team Pacman for that night doesn't make him a tag champion. It's happened in the WWE quite a bit where one half of the champions were replaced, and they are never credited as being a tag champion for that, usually because most times the champions with a replacement partner lose the belts in the match. Just like Team Pacman did here. This isn't a case of the freebird rule, it's merely a replacement. TonyFreakinAlmeida (talk) 18:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)