Talk:Menon (title)

Untitled
Could someone add links to notables. B Nambiar 15:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Peacock items
Kindly keep the menon article anthropologically fidel and please donot repeatedly add peacock items. In case of paliam family you have to provide appropriate citation.Users Anandks007 and Nunquam Dormio have been repeatedly reverting and editing it back to inadequately referenced and peacock stories prolific sections and versions —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 09:05, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no peacocking going on and you are repeatedly vandalizing the article by adding unwanted symbols like ā instead of a and adding biased and out of date information. Axxn (talk) 10:13, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In Malabar Menon title was held by the Chavers, not the scribes (as was the case in Cochin). Only a few were literary pioneers compared to the vast majority, who were soldiers. Axxn (talk) 10:15, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I am from North Malabar myself and Nambiar by birth although a non-casteist and a researcher of anthropology of social mobility in medeival and post colonial Kerala and perfectly understand what peacocking Anandks007 and others are doing on the Menon article. Actually you are the ones wo are vandalizing. Where is the references for ?

1. The royal families of Cochin and south Malabar marry only from Menon families – peacock usage a total bull shit. There may have been individual instances if so they have to be cited properly.

2. You may want to check out topics like vedas, sanskrit and innumerale articles where such phonetic symbols are used.It is for the facilitate phonetic understanding and has been extensively used in wikipedia. Otherwise you have option of simple english version of wikipedia.

3.Adequate reference is required for Paliam family is a menon family

These are only a few examples for how peacocking is done in the menon article. Any student of anthropology with a decent knowledge that Menon is a matrilinial hereditary or non -her title granted to scribes. Some families who had this title also engaged in the military profession or were landlords like any other Nayar subsects and is not peculiar to the dignity of menon.


 * OK Mr.Nambiar (who thinks he is something above and different from all Nairs). Let me explain a few things.
 * (1) Male members of the Cochin Royal family used to marry only Menon women. But things have changed now and currently they (both males and females) marry Varmas, Menons as well as Brahmins.
 * (2) Paliam family is a Menon family. Paliath Govinda Menon, who led the battle against the British was the Paliath Achan during 19th century.
 * (3) Phonetic symbols are used to specify the differences in pronounciation. It is not used for common spelling. It can be used on 3-4 occassions in an article, but can't be used everywhere, if the most commonly spelling is different. Axxn (talk) 10:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

FACTS about Peacock items
1.	Menon is a profession title means head clerk. All nairs are Shudra the servents to namboohiri and how come they become "ROAyL" or is it the meaning of "royal".

2.	Male members of cochin royal family engaged in asambandham unions with Nayar women of Kerala and is not restricted to those dignified as menon alone. So only individual cases of such unions with menons existed. So this claim that it is “only” to menon women is bogus. If you have any source that it was restricted to menons you must cite it in the article. (What stupid acts)

3.	Paliath Govindan Achan (and not Govinda menon) was the last Paliath Achan to occupy the position of Prime Minister in the Kingdom of Cochin until 1825. Infact Nadavarambu Kunhikrishna Menon who succeded Paliath Givindachan was a rival of the Paliam family. Paliath Govindan achan was imprisoned and later died in 1832 in Benares. Diwans of Cochin Thottakkat Govinda Menon (son of Sankunni Warrier) and later his brother of Thottakkat Sankunni Menon were all appointees to the office of Diwan of cochin after the hereditary prime minister ship of the Paliam family to cochin was abolished by the Raja of Cochin and did not belong to the Paliam family.So donot confuse between paliath Govindan achan and Thottakkat Govinda Menon. Inspite of these historical facts if you have statements in a historical document that Paliam family was a menon family then you should cite it in the article otherwise the claim is bogus.

So i am reverting the article to keep it accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.201.1.30 (talk) 09:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 12:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Paliyath Swaroopam
Paliath swaroopam was actualy menons and they assumed the title of "achans" later on,Cochin rajas always address the paliyath valiyachan as menon.reference Kottaratil Shankuni's "Ayithiha mala". Aiyihya mala is he biggesy blunt book ever written  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.201.1.30 (talk) 09:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Where is
Bhavana, Nithya Menon, etc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Govindsharma (talk • contribs) 05:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

NPOV
Kindly keep the article devoid of peacock terms and adequately referenced. Users like Anandks07 and Linguisticgeek are simply engaged in ego satistfying reversals. In case there is discontent about a section let us discuss about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 08:38, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

NPOVReversal refusing Discussion by Anandks007
The menon article has peacock terms without citation as described in the discussion section of the article. The article has been modified by me several times with appropriate citation and during these i have mentioned the reasons. However inspite of this you seem to be reverting or undoing to an older version that has inadequate citation and prolofic peacock claims.I am therefore reverting it to the properly referenced version without peacock terms. I encourage you to participate in a discussion and not to revert to inadequately cited older version. Such repeated reversals by you to older version of the article which is inadequately referenced and has peacock terms amounts to edit war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sanam001 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

In "Artists and entertainers" section, one prominent name is missing. Its none other than Maruthur Gopalan Ramachandran alias MGR —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.99.44.175 (talk) 10:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

i prof  dr  t  m  saratchandraprasad  panicker-thazhathuveetil  am  also  a  hindu  menon panicker belonging  to  the  kiriyathil nair  kshathriya  caste  with  pure kshathriya  blood  on  the  thazhathuveetil FAMILY side  being  founded  by  kattile  karanavar shankaranarayana  pillai who  is  sanctified  and  worshipped  at  thazhathuveetil  tharavad  which  is  more  than  350  yrs  old  at  karumalloor  alangad,the  thazhathuveetil  family  traces  it  origins  to  north  central  kerala  with  many  illustrious  descendants  including  parur  t  k  narayanapillai  first  chief  prime  minister  of  travancore-cochin ,i  am  personally  a  recipient  of  the    EMINENT  CITIZEN  OF  INDIA  AWARD  ,AND  A  VISHISHTA  CHIKITSA  MEDAL,FROM  THE  GOVT  OF  INDIA,  OTHER  AWARDS  I  HAVE  RECIEVED  INCLUDE  A  SHIROMANI  AWARD,GOLD  MEDALIST  AND  DISTINGUISHED  PRACTITIONER  AWARD  AND  I  AM  THE  FIRST  ALLOPATHIC  DOCTOR  IN  INDIA  TO  CERTIFY  THE  FIRST  THREE  DEATHS  DUE  TO  TRASFUSION  AIDS  WITH  ALL  ITS  COMPLICATIONS  ON  3  SUCCESSIVE  NIGHTS  IN  CHRISTIAN  MEDICAL  COLLEGE  VELLORE  23  YRS  AGO  I   HAVE  BEEN  ATTACHED  TO  THE  ROYAL  COLLEGE  OF  SURGEONS  IN  IRELAND  IN  DUBLIN  AS  [HON] PROF  FOR  THE  PAST  15  YRS  AND  AS  CONSULTANT  PHYSICIAN [HON]  TO  BEAUMONT  HOSPITAL  DUBLIN  FOR  16  YRS,INCIDENTALLY  FROM  THE  THE  THARAMEL  PANICKER  SIDE  I  HAVE  INHERITED  VAISHNAVITE  HINDU  ARYAN  BHATTATHIRI  BRAHMIN  BLOOD  AS  MY  MATERNAL  GRANDFATHER  WAS  THARAMEL  GOVINDA PANICKER SHIVARAMA  PANICKER , LATE  S  R  PANICKER  WHOSE  FATHER NARAYANA BHATTATHIRI WAS  FROM  PALUR  MANA  NORTH  PARUR  AND  MOTHER  WAS  A  THARAMEL  KUNJAMMA  INCIDENTALLY  THERE  WAS  A  STRONG  FAMILY  HISTORY  OF  DIABETES  IN  BOTH  THE  THAZHATHUVEETIL  AND  THARAMEL  THAVAZHIS    AND  I  MYSELF  HAVE  PRACTISED  CARDIDIABETOLOGY  AS  A  PREFERRED  SPECIALITY  FOR  THE  PAST  2O  YRS  AND  HAVE  DONE  CONSIDERABLE  RESEARCH  WORK  AND  CONDUCTED  CLINCAL  TRIALS  IN  INDIA  AND  IRELAND ,INCIDENTALLY  I  AM  ALSO  LEGAL  HEIR  TO  THARAMEL  ACHUTHA  PANICKER  WHO  WAS  ONE  OF  THE  WEALTHIEST  JENMIS[LANDLORDS,ZAMINDARS]  OF  HIS  TIME  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.97.46.153 (talk) 23:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

i prof  dr  t  m  saratchandra  prasad  panicker, from  the  thazhathuveetil  tharavad  at  karumalloor alangad  aluva  kerala , am  a  MENON  PANICKER  ,from one  of  the  most  aristocratic  caste  hindu  kiriyathil nair  families  of  north  central  kerala  with  a  number  of  thavazhis  spread  all  over  kerala  and  i  am  probably  with  one  of  the  largest  set  of  family  members  any where  in  the  world,i  am  an  awardee-eminent  citizen  of  india,vishisht  chikitsa  medal, shiromani  award,gold  medalist,and  distinguished  practitioner award  ,a  practising  overseas  trained  consultant  physician,trained  in  various  centres  of  excellence  in  india  and  ireland  and  i  am  a certified  specialist  in  cardiology ,diabetes,occupational  diseases  and  chest  medicine holding  multiple  exit  conferred  fellowships  and  an  M  R C S  ATTAINED  FROM  THE  ROYAL  COLLEGE  OF  SURGEONS  IN IRELAND,I  ALSO  ATTAINED  THE  MEMBERSHIP  OF  THE  ROYAL  COLLEGE  OF  PHYSICIANS  ON  THE  16  TH  OF  MAY  1994,  I  AM  ALSO  A  THARAMEL  PANICKER  BEING  A  LEGAL  HEIR  TO  THARAMEL  GOVINDA  PANICKER  SHIVARAMA  PANICKER  [LATE  S R  PANICKERS]  LEGAL  HEIR  AND  GRAND SON  AND  ALSO  GREAT  GRAND SON  AND  LEGAL  HEIR  TO  THARAMEL  ACHUTHA  PANICKER  WHO  WAS  ONE  OF  THE  WEALTHIEST  JENMIS  [LANDLORDS-ZAMINDARS  OF  HIS  TIME]WITH  EXTENSIVE  INHERITED  AND  ACQUIRED  ASSETS  ALL  OVER  ERNAKULAM  DISTRICT  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.225.106.111 (talk) 05:46, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Menon Panicker
I think we need to elaborate more about all the sub-divisions, especially Menon panicker as they were the creamy layer, most close to zamorins & other rajas & running a royal line in palagat as in this article has mentioned. Do any one have referenced facts about them?? Personally i know they used to supply army to zamorin & have been high ranked officers in zamorin's army & menon paniker women were married to zamorin or others from samoothiri kovilakam. Am not a historian to show any reference to above facts. [so cannot put in Wikipedia also] so if some one historically inclined can check there vast collections & put some thing about it here will enlighten every one & Some of those informations will be definitely new for me also, Am looking forward to see all that. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.171.8.217 (talk) 19:19, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Geographically also, Palakkad Menons were considered superior to other Menons. Chandrakantha.Mannadiar (talk) 08:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

royal family of palakade
The citation was from mathrubumi news paper. I think its credible enough. as the said news paper is one of the most reputed malayalam news paper. If no one have objection we can enter that data under menon paniker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.191.229.119 (talk) 12:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

kshatria status
As pointed by some senior editors, menon is not a kshatria caste, but only a kshatria like caste. so I have written it accordingly.[caste of kshatria like function but no actual status] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.191.229.119 (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

In Kiriyathil-Illathu Nair community Nair, Menon, Nambiar, Panicker, Kurup, Pillai, Thampi etc. are only titles and not sub-castes. Sub-caste is either Kiriyathil Nair or Illathu Nair. Caste is Nair, religion is Hindu and category is General Category. Menons who belong to Kiriyathil Nair caste are called Kiriyam-Menons. Similarly, Nambiars who belongs to Kiriyathil Nair caste called Kiriyam-Nambiars. Kiriyathil-Illathu Nairs were called Thampuran and Thampurattiyar or Kammal and Ambaraal by their servants and the people who belonged to communities which were ranked lower than Nair.

From Census report 1961: "The Nairs of the village belong to the highest subdivisions known as Kiriyathil Nairs and Illathu Nairs. The former was also known as Vellaima Nairs to whom belonged to aristocratic classes such as Panicker, Kurup, Kaimal, Kartha, and Menon." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.219.50.5 (talk) 04:58, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

tamilian0
please give reference to back up your claim menon is a tamil name Sesshomaru666666 (talk) 02:43, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you give reference to back up the claim of the word being of Malayalam origin? Anyone who knows Tamil will know it is a pure Tamil word. Please do not create disturbance and learn to accept the truth. (Tamilan101 (talk) 02:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC))

Malayalam & tamil have common roots. so it is possible both languages have this term. I suggest removing 'tamil' as long as you cant provide citation, as menon is purely a Malayalam community. 'Everybody knows' doesnot count in WP. please provide citation & we will be more than happy to put your 'tamil' claims. Sesshomaru666666 (talk) 08:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

It is obvious that Tamil101 is a Tamil Nationalist, his/her disruptive edits must be blocked. 117.204.85.31 (talk) 17:28, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I have removed the section. It can be reinstated when somebody comes up with a source that complies with our policies. - Sitush (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Warlords
Can anyone come up with a reliable source verifying warlord status, please? - Sitush (talk) 07:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Fawcett and "royal family" as sources
Fawcett is an old British Raj source and such things are not considered to be reliable, as also is Edgar Thurston. Equally, the "royal family" source is inherently unreliable, if only because there are no royal families in India yet this lot still claim to be such. This has been determined to be unreliable at WP:RSN. These are why I have been reverting various anons from Karnataka. - Sitush (talk) 18:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The IP has just added this, which is clearly a mirror of Wikipedia (that is, it has just copied our content) and even more clearly a dodgy website generally. - Sitush (talk) 19:03, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

New source
Someone recently added "Kaanipayyoor Sankaran Nambudiripad, Reminiscenes, Kunnamkulam Press" as a source. It needs a page number and I am pretty sure the title is spelled incorrectly. However, and worse, I don't even think it is reliable - reminiscences are generally the opinion of the writer, not subject to independent editorial oversight. The publisher is also obscure. - Sitush (talk) 10:42, 5 April 2018 (UTC)