Talk:Mercedes F1 W05 Hybrid

Tidyup
Just doing a quick copyedit/ref check/plagiarism/copyvio checks and this sentence keeps bothering me:

"The form the F1 W05 Hybrid has enjoyed from the start of the season to the Chinese Grand Prix, the fourth Grand Prix of the season, is the most successful and dominant set of results in the history of the sport."

The next ref is after the following sentence, and they could both be synopsis of the blog that ref refers to. Unfortunately I cannot see how that first sentence can be truly arrived at from that particular ref.

The blog says that Mercedes achieved X number of 1-2s in the season, then goes on to add "only Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Red Bull have more". To me, that sounds like they are NOT the MOST successful AND DOMINANT.

I would agree they are successful, and have been dominant this year, but Red Bull AND Ferrari dominated for several years each in recent memory - to achieve the Wiki claim may need to wait a year or two or find a better ref that agrees with the editor who wrote it.

Chaosdruid (talk) 15:47, 22 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe the claim of "most successful and dominant set of results in the history of the sport" is a reference to the car's performance in the first 4 races of the year, i.e. taking pole, the win, fastest lap and leading every lap of each of those 4 races - I don't believe any other F1 car has ever done that. DH85868993 (talk) 06:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ferrari F2004? Tvx1 (talk) 20:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The F2004 didn't set fastest lap in the 2nd race of the season or take pole in the 4th race of the season. (I haven't checked the "leading every lap" bit). DH85868993 (talk) 23:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * McLaren MP4/4? Tvx1 (talk) 02:02, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The MP4/4 didn't set fastest lap at the first race of the season. (Again I didn't check the "leading every lap" bit). DH85868993 (talk) 08:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No, but the MP4/4 did achieve victory, pole and fastest lap in six consecutive races and won the first 11 races of the 1988 season, neither of which the W05 Hybrid achieved. I really wonder what's so much more special about being so dominant in the first four races in comparison with any other string of four races during a season that we have to emphasize as much as we do. After all were are not an advertisement agency for the Mercedes F1 W05 Hybrid. Tvx1 (talk) 21:22, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Achievements in consecutive races from the start of the season seem to have extra significance for some people, e.g. in List of Formula One driver records we have entries for "Most consecutive wins from first race of season", "Most consecutive podium finishes from first race of season", "Most different race winners in consecutive races from first race of the season" and "Most consecutive retirements (did not finishes) from first race of season". DH85868993 (talk) 21:39, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But we don't operate on what some people think. We operate on what the sources say. Do the sources patently give more importance to achieving a string of results from the first race of season than to a string of result of similar or even greater length not from the start of a season? Tvx1 (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The source supporting this text in question seems to - it says "They have dominated the first four races of the year in a manner never before seen in Formula One: they have taken every pole position, fastest lap and race victory, and led every lap." (my italics). When I get a chance I'll check whether any other car has taken pole, victory, fastest lap and led every lap in 4 successive races, be they the first 4 of the season or not (you've already identified that the MP4/4 took pole, victory and fastest lap in 6 successive races, but I'll need to check the "leading every lap" part). Perhaps the source is saying their dominance of "the past 4 races" is unmatched, and they just happened to be the first four races of the season. DH85868993 (talk) 21:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It led every lap in Brazil, San Marino, Monaco, Mexico, Canada, Detroit and France. That's the first seven races of the season and includes the string of 6 races of pole, fastest lap and victory I mentioned earlier. Tvx1 (talk) 04:43, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for checking that. That suggests/confirms that the source is specifically identifying that it's the most dominant performance in the first four races of the season. So it's just a matter of deciding whether that information should be included in the article. DH85868993 (talk) 23:59, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't think we should. But that's my humble opinion. I think we really should look whether it was major talking point among many sources or just this one. If it's just the one we shouldn't be including this because it would be placing undue emphasis. Tvx1 (talk) 03:39, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Full Technical Specification table
It has been proposed that the Full Technical Specification table be deleted. You are welcome to express any views you have on the matter at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Formula_One. DH85868993 (talk) 12:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)