Talk:Meriwether Lewis/Archive 1

Contradicting Information
At one point, it is stated he died in October, while in another, it is stated that he died in November. If this small piece of information contradicts itself, maybe the month in which he died should be completely removed from the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.235.234.226 (talk) 05:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk
I might point out that the anniversary of the Lewis and Clark Expedition is going to increase the interest in this page. It could use a lot of work. Lewis was a fascinating character. -- ESP 20:50 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)

hey i noticed that alot of sites dont have consistint info on him. I got this form another site on him " From age thirteen to eighteen Lewis attended local schools taught by ministers". here it says he was educated by privet tutors. i also got 2 different years for the year he joined the army. I got 1794 not 1795. 71.115.7.64 (talk) 20:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

merryweather Lewis did not commit suicide, he was assassinated by John wilkison his preceeder, as a plot aginst president Jefferson, a very close friend of Lewis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.223.78.231 (talk) 02:21, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Lewis
Meriwether Lewis was a good man, if it wasn't for him the west probably wouldn't have been settled as quick as it was!

Man, is this article badly written!!!

I agree with both

I agree too. (Is this "talk" thing ever looked at)?


 * Yes, it is looked at. Please, signed your comments with four tildes (~). President Lethe 00:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Lewis suicide
I heard in my Social Studies class today that Lewis tried to commit suicide in the house of William Clark. He was shot only once in the head and survived for four days after the shot. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, correct the article. --71.112.94.131 01:40, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * According to this page, which is at a website accompanying a good documentary film about the Corps of Discovery, this happened on 11 October 1809: "Traveling east along the Natchez Trace in Tennessee, on his way from St. Louis to Washington, Lewis commits suicide at Grinder’s Stand, an inn south of Nashville. (Later, theories that he was murdered arise, but neither Clark nor Jefferson doubted the original, on-site reports that Lewis had shot himself. Few historians give credence to the the murder theory.)"


 * I've yet to find online a transcript of that documentary. But I remember that it includes an interview of a historian saying, of Lewis, "he shot himself". My recollection is that the shot took place in the middle of the night, that his dead body was found the next morning, and that the shot was into the heart.


 * President Lethe 00:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

thank you

Well, I noticed when I was reading the article that he was suffered "Multiple gunshot wounds." Are you sure he could've shot himself if he had suffered several hits? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.54.57 (talk) 03:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The History Channel's Decoded was able to prove adiquite proof that Lewis's death was infact homicide. However no proof can be provided as to who pulled the trigger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.107.27.12 (talk) 19:36, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Just because a TV show (especially a pop-culture one which is largely created and run by conspiracy theory fanatics) says something doesn't mean it's true. Any "proofs" they may have come up with can be disputed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.57.121 (talk) 03:39, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow
I was expecting a huge page here. Having grown up in the Pacific Northwest where Lewis & Clark are like demigods and the L&C historical markers are ubiquitous, I'm nonplussed. I wish this were my forte, but my dad's the real buff on Lewis & Clark. I would recommend the book "Undaunted Courage" by Stephen E. Ambrose for anyone interested in improving this page (or find a Junior High Washington State History textbook!). As to the suicide thing, it is unfortunate that it sometimes overshadows his accomplishments. But on the other hand, it is really great for awareness of mental illness. He was known to be "melancholic" and one account even has someone walking in one morning to find his arms slashed, though apparently self-inflicted. In light of cutting, this could be one of the earliest recorded examples, but don't quote me on that speculation. That he achieved so much in light of his condition, makes him inspiring, even if he wasn't able to overcome it in the end. Oh, and did anyone mention he was put on a commemorative stamp? And as an exercise of self-indulgence, I'll mention that the site where Vancouver, the city where I was born and raised, was to be started in 1825; was said by him to be "the only desired situation for settlement west of the Rocky Mountains." Not really important for this page at all, just thought I'd mention it... Khirad 09:32, 7 August 2006 Merryweather lewis was indeed assassinated by the owner or the inn he was staying in. the owner was hired and payed by his preceeder wilkinson who intitionaly killed him and in a conspiracy to plot to kill Thomas Jefferson and take over the united states goverment,but misserably failed.Even to this day Jefferson; one of merryweathers closest friends was lied to about his death as a suicide. for the past 200 years all of america was lied to about the death of this great man. P.S. why would lewis kill himself right in the middle of an important mission to the capitol. The reason that he was assassinated, was that Lewis and Jefferson were conspireing aginst wilkinson and many Major Generals in the U.S. getting rid of the unloyal ones, and keeping the good generals, in order to depleat the threat aginst him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.223.78.231 (talk • contribs) 02:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

comments:
I agree with the previous poster and I too would recommend the book "Undaunted Courage" by Stephen E. Ambrose. It is a very in depth look at Lewis in particular and covers many of the issues discussed here, including accounts of his suicide. This page should really be exapanded and should probably link to a discussion of great men (good and evil) and depression. DRS

I have read that Lewis died on both October 11th, and on October 8. Which one is right? PBS says the 8, but lots of others say both. It's split. I need to know 4 a paper I'm writing 4 school. Help!

Somebody told me that Lewis died being trampled by bison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.177.249 (talk) 00:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

paul bunyan
Wait wait wait a minute ....this article lists Paul Bunyan as a descendant of Meriwether Lewis?? The mythic lumberjack of 19th century North America?? How did that get in there?

Most likely vandalism. LOOKIE MILK! (talk) 11:47, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
I have had it with all the vandalism on this page and wikipedia's lack of caring. See Requests for page protection. I will no longer revert the page, I will now remove Lewis from my watch list. Aboutmovies 23:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

murder?
Isn't it pretty fringe to claim that Lewis was murdered? I'd always read that he committed suicide, and had assumed that this was pretty generally agreed upon. john k 08:18, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

If he was shot in the head and chest, its a good assumption to think he was murdered. Why he was murdered is another question. -Yancyfry


 * I disagree, I read that Lewis commited suicide. It is possible that Lewis may have tried to kill himself by shooting himself in the chest first, but shot himself in the head afterwards when he didn't die. And suicide was most likely because Lewis had been suffering severe depression. I think the "murder" idea was some cover up for Lewis's suicide. Think about it, Lewis was supposed to be a man we look up to, it's sort of degrading that he commited suicide.


 * Really it doesn't matter what our opinions are, an article should be written on fact, not on fiction. Just debating here will not get us anywhere. I just wanted to present some ideas. Burn N Flare 02:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I have included the details of Lewis's death in the file. The details of his death were given by Mrs Grinder. And can be easily found on the web.

I am a direct descendant of Robert and Priscilla Grinder. We have always known that Robert caught Lewis in bed with Priscilla and shot him. The next day, Robert fled for Texas, and Priscilla made up a story to cover for her fleeing husband. Next issue please. GG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.183.230.1 (talk) 16:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Parents Updated 12/3/2007
I updated the parents information regarding Meriwether Lewis. He was born to Captain William Lewis (1733 - 1781) and Lucy Meriwether (2/4/1751 - 9/18/1837). The artile had John Lewis as his Father which was incorrect.

As far as his death being ruled as a suicide, I am aware that the Lewis foundation requested that his body be exhumed for re-examination. I have not heard the results of this petition. - Michael of Mississippi.

While some of the lineage background is interesting, the final sentence seems unnecessary if not a little lacking in collegial tone: "Not only that, but he was a second cousin once removed of Washington's on his father's side." Is anyone opposed to striking this last sentence?Rdd98103 (talk) 06:28, 17 December 2007 (UTC)rdd98103

Left out information
There were things left out like he was in the army and all that.

Josephtan456 (talk) 17:16, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
Lately,there has been lots of vandalism on this article, some written today by User:Ron Rizman. (Wikipedian1234 (talk) 23:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC))
 * I didn't intend to blank the page. That was done by an ip editor. I tried to unblank it but instead reverted cluebot. Twinkle screwed up --Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I understand--(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 00:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC))

New Information
The contents box should have a new heading, namely "New Information." There are too many assumptions about Meriwether Lewis on this page and also in the discussions forum. For the real story, a new biography has just been released. Can someone post it on the front page. I haven't a clue nor the right browser.

Thomas C. Danisi and John C. Jackson, "Meriwether Lewis" (Buffalo: Prometheus Books, 2009)

Here's the link: http://www.prometheusbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_143&products_id=1887

Thanks, TD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawsonmackay (talk • contribs) 23:31, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Good Book for more info
If you really want to read a good book on the expedition out west and Meriwether Lewis especially...... Undaunted Courgae by Stephen Ambrose...... This was one of the best books that i have ever read. It gives an amazing account of what happened —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.141.134.186 (talk) 16:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Was Lewis a homosexual?
I recently read reports online that Lewis was a homosexual. This article then states "Lewis, a happy man, never married." What does that lead us to believe? The fact that Lewis committed suicide around the time that his "partner" Clark married a woman also increases speculation. Does anyone know the answer to this? While I was recently in the Pacific Northwest, home of many Lewis and Clark statues, someone told me this. Anyone want to clarify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by PowerSurge1000 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

M.L. Family Legends from another branch of the Lewis Family
I do not have any "encyclopedic" or "historical" information to mention here, nor do I have any commentary, pro or con, about the article. Instead I would like to share some family "legends" from another branch of the Lewis family.

M. Lewis was undoubtedly a remarkable and exceptional man. None of my following statements should ever be considered in any way to be negative commentary. I am very proud of the family legends and the possibility that I could be related to M. Lewis from an ancillary branch of the family. I, too, have been considered a black sheep in my family (for actions considered to negatively affect the family's social standing, like M. Lewis) and I am proud to share the family description with M. Lewis. Our family is a family to be proud of - all of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.204.61.93 (talk) 01:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

My grandmother, Clara Lavanche Lewis, was very proud of being a member of the Lewis family and she occasionally told us some of the family "legends" that had been handed down from generation to generation in their side of the family. One of these was about Meriwether Lewis, a claimed ancestral relation. He was considered to be a black sheep of the family and spoken about in soft whispers because he left his fiancee at the altar with no explanation. Please remember, I am recounting a family "legend". Most of the family members in this branch were positive he committed suicide. Furthermore, my family's legends support the possibility that M.L. was depressive and suicidal - another cause for calling him a "black sheep" since suicide was socially unacceptable. As noted in the article, the truth of this matter is still undiscovered. The possibility of homosexuality or bisexuality was not ever raised.

Which brings me to another family anecdote of more recent origin. My Aunt Jane, now deceased, and her husband would travel across the Southwest and Midwest each summer. On one of their trips they came across a small gift shop where she found handmade ceramics signed "Lewis". She asked the Native American proprietor of the store, who turned out to be the artist, where the Lewis name came from. The young woman chuckled and said that "Meriwether didn't spend all his time 'alone' on his travels."

My grandmother was also very proud of being related to the branch of the Lewis family that included Martha Washington, though she did not have any detailed information on the context of the relationship.

Aunt Jane visited the site of Lewisburg, the first settlement in Arkansas. All that remains of the settlement is the cemetary. The rest of the settlement is under the Arkansas River. The cemetary land is held in private ownership. At this time, I cannot provide the location without permission from the owners.

I am presently trying to research the family tree and family history. If anyone is familiar with any of information about the Lewis family tree from Stephen Decatur Lewis (my grandmother's grandfather) and back - I would appreciate being contacted. Also any information about my possible Native American relatives would be greatly appreciated. Finally, any information about the Martha Dandridge family connection with the Lewis' would be appreciated.

As a point of side information, my mother, Ernestine Hogan Thurman Swartzwelder,** owned the last 100 acres of the "Arkansas Land Grant" until the early 1960's. I clearly remember to this day the trips we took to Arkansas, stopping on the roadside and looking over the plowed fields to a forest of trees that was the plot of land. I also clearly remember when my mother told me she had sold the land and how very angry I was about it. That was an integral piece of my family heritage and it was gone. Since I was so angry about it, she wouldn't tell me the location of the land or the property owner who purchased it because it was in the middle of his farm. If anyone is familiar with this land transaction, I would be grateful to be contacted, just for geneological and historical information purposes, please. If I had some clues about the location of the abstract, I could trace backwards through the ownership records how the land was passed down to my mother.

Update: The wiki page for EHTS has been removed. I will start one soon. PTS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PJShaw (talk • contribs) 20:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a Wikipedia page for EHTS and I will be providing information for that soon. I still have a family trunk of records that needs to be opened and sorted.  Thank you for your time.  PTS. PJShaw (talk) 00:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Info at his burial site
Just got back from a day trip down the Natchez Trace Parkway where we stopped and visited his gravesite and memorial. He did die on 10/11/1809. According the the marker near his grave, as soon as he arrived at the site he asked for gunpowder. Later that night the gunshots were heard, and he was found with gunshot wounds to his head AND his chest. Then, later as he was laying wounded he took a razor and cut open his arm and legs and bled out.

Can't find that information anywhere else, so I haven't edited the page yet. Nothing to cite as a source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.138.44.202 (talk) 02:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

im simba —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.191.151.33 (talk) 19:48, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Kira Gale, 4 June 2010
Please add the reference: The Death of Meriwether Lewis: A Historic Crime Scene Investigation by James E. Starrs and Kira Gale (River Junction Press LLC, 2009) Kira Gale (talk) 15:12, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Kira Gale (talk) 15:12, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Not done: That would not be honest since your book was not used as a reference for this article. Please use another venue for advertising. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 16:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Recent efforts to exhume for forensic analysis
Would it be worth adding a sentence about the recent efforts to resolve the muder/suicide debate? Covered in recent article in WSJ. TimidGuy (talk) 11:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Ancestry and family
I have removed my own edit from the article: "(Thomas) Jefferson's sister, Lucy, was married to Lewis' brother, Dr. Charles Lilburne Lewis.Local history in Kentucky literature." I have found information citing different parents for Charles Lilburne Lewis. With all the first cousin marriages between the Lewis and Jefferson families, and various people named "Lucy Jefferson" and "Charles Lewis", it is likely that I have confused myself. Location (talk) 16:41, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Graveside Memorial Service
To be pedantic, it is not the "101st Airborne Infantry Band", but the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) Band from Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Army musicians are their own Military Occupational Specialty, not infantrymen. I'd make the fix myself, but it's locked. Much of Fort Campbell, Kentucky is actually in Tennessee, so Army PR stuff in most of Tennessee is handled out of Campbell. In an odd coincidence, Clarksville, Tennessee is right outside the gate on the Tennessee side, named for Lewis' expedition partner. "A Fort Campbell NCO"74.193.234.233 (talk) 03:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Lewis's family
The "Legacy" heading says that Lewis had no family, buy the last paragraph of the biography says that Lewis's family believed that he was murdered (Or is it talking about Jefferson's family?) This should be either re-written or re-worded by some who knows the correct answer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.91.22 (talk) 20:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Meriwether Lewis' mother was alive a the time of his death, see above: Lucy Meriwether (2/4/1751 - 9/18/1837). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.183.98 (talk) 20:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Also, his sister Jane, brother Reuben and others in his extended family -- ie, mother's and father's families. I notice the body text seems to skip what happened to his father: it jumps from mentioning father and mother to "He moved with his mother and stepfather Captain John Marks to Georgia.." which I'll fix with a quick add now. El duderino (talk) 12:16, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Lewis's acquisition of his dog, Seaman
According to Stephen Ambrose in "Undaunted Courage", Lewis bought Seaman in Pittsburgh on or about 17th August 1803 while enduring recurring delays in the completion of the keel boat. Therefore the mention in this article of Lewis hunting in Georgia with Seaman at an age of 8 or 9 is incorrect. This would have predated the reported purchase by at least a decade.¬¬¬¬ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.77.194.180 (talk) 18:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Lewis' death
The documentation for the mid-1800s finding of "assassination" was disclosed on the History Channel program "Brad Meltzer's Decoded" episode "Secret Presidential Codes", which aired in December 2010. This citation needs to be added to the article.

Furthermore, the same program uncovered conclusive proof that the official report to the President about the alleged "suicide", written by the man assigned to guard Lewis was a forgery, and the man himself was over 60 miles (2 days ride) away from the death site at the time of the murder. This was established by court documents verified by independent experts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.247.248.61 (talk) 08:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

One book I read about Lewis and Clark, discussed possible reasons for Lewis's death and postulated that Lewis suffered from syphilis and took his own life. It also stated that Lewis was rejected by a women he loved due to this condition. Apparently, most of the men on the expedition had intercourse with Indian women. Syphilis was common in the yet 'undiscovered' West due to European and native trappers who ventured into the areas. Even native Americans transmitted it when beyond areas populated by Europeans. Records indicate most of the men on the expedition acquired syphilis. However, I cannot remember which book I read that stated this. It is probably still in my library, but I'm not going to research it. Perhaps someone more interested in this article might. Thomas R. Fasulo (talk) 00:37, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Despite the protection - poor quality seems to remain?

 * The only doctor to examine Lewis' body did so in 1848. He reported that Lewis appeared to have died "by the hand of an assassin". Lewis' descendants have retained the report.

What the devil is that supposed to mean? An autopsy was done three decades after his death?86.145.7.188 (talk) 09:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Meriwether Lewis
Hello, according to History channel Lewis was shot twice once in the head once in side or back. blood on him was from two different people so i assume he did some damage to them also???? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.185.137.126 (talk) 00:12, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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Married?
I have seen several records claiming that Lewis married, or at least fathered children with a Sioux woman named Ikpasarewin Sara Windwalker. This information would obviously be very relevant to this article, so I was wondering whether these claims held any validity. Audrey (talk) 22:59, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Footnote 24
When the link in footnote 24 is engaged, it goes to a 404 page stating that the resource does not exist.

Since this is supposedly the source for Lewis supposedly trying to commit suicide, I think that the part of the sentence concerning the suicide should be removed.

Especially considering a TV program titled"Brad Meltzer's Decided: Presidential Codes" pretty much proved that Meriwether Lewis was murdered and that the only statement written about Lewis attempting suicide and arriving at a location in a bad mental state had already been proven to be a forgery.

Thoughts? Comments? 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 10:52, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

University attendance
An unsourced claim that Lewis attended Liberty Hall (now Washington & Lee University) was removed from the article. This detail is on several online sources, including biography.com, but seems dubious. I have researched this and cannot verify this information. Meriwether Lewis: A Biography (1965) doesn't mention it, and Uncovering the Truth About Meriwether Lewis (2012)  doesn't mention it either. An online biography says he studied with a Rev. Waddell. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 21:48, 10 March 2021 (UTC)


 * There is a long tradition that Lewis attended Liberty Hall Academy, which developed into what is now Washington and Lee University, at the school, but this is not cited in any major historical biographies. Rev. Waddel or Waddell was an original trustee of the school, but tutored privately separately from it, as was apparently the case with Lewis. There is no source for Lewis having attended Liberty Hall in the Washington and Lee University archives before a claim made in the 1840s that he had been an alumnus, decades after his death. There are no student records for him in the archive (though some records were destroyed). However, he was so nationally prominent from such a young age, there would seem to be sources of this previous to his death, if it were true. There are records and information about other alumni of the period in the archive. In a letter from Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Rush of the American Philosophical Society asking Rush to help Lewis figure out what to do scientifically on the expedition, Jefferson says, "Capt. Lewis is brave, prudent, habituated to the woods, & familiar with Indian manners & character. he is not regularly educated, but he possesses a great mass of accurate observation on all the subjects of nature which present themselves here, & will therefore readily select those only in his new route which shall be new." Jefferson includes a similar view of Lewis's education in letters to more Philosophical Society members with whom Lewis consulted in Philadelphia preceding the expedition, including Benjamin Smith Barton in a letter of Feb. 27, Caspar Wistar in a letter also of Feb. 28, and Robert Patterson in a letter of Mar. 2, all available from the same archive of the letter sourced here to Rush. Lewis was Jefferson's private secretary in the White House and they knew each other well for many years. There is no mention of Liberty Hall in any of Meriwether Lewis's letters. Any association of Meriwether Lewis with Liberty Hall could at best be called a late Washington College (another previous name of Washington and Lee) tradition or a rumor, but not a sourced statement of fact. I am aware of one children's history book which named Lewis as a Liberty Hall alumnus, recently republished as if it were meant to be a book for adults, written by an untrained (but award-winning) historian who cites no source for the information. So, he probably somehow encountered the long, unsourced tradition of the school and did not research it further, or he would have dropped the claim or provided the source, presumably. However, I only know for sure that the claim was made in the version published as if for adults, more than 50 years after the original children's book was published, and 13 years after the death of the author, so it seems possible it was added by the later publisher for some reason and the author never made the claim himself. Peterwyckham (talk) 10:13, 21 March 2021 (UTC)