Talk:Merle Haggard

Can Someone Link the NPR Interview of Merle?
I wish I had more time. Its really great and is a good source on Haggard's life and his thoughts. It can be found at NPR.org (was aired or at least re-aired just today 10/3/2009)

Sean7phil (talk) 19:37, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Questions
Two questions &mdash; Is the correct song title, "The Bottle Let Me Done", or "The Bottle Let Me Down"? If Haggard was sent up for 15 yrs., how do we explain that he got out after only 3? --Jose Ramos 13:48, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Down, not done Parole-- that's the way he got out early; good behaviour, and usually a person must report to a Parole Officer in the U.S. and submit to a monthly meeting and random drug urinalysis for illicit drugs.


 * "The Bottle Let Me DOWN" that the name of the song! Alakey2010 29 April 2006 - 10:21 pm

Photo
Can somebody add a picture of Merle Haggard for this article? I would, but I still don't know how to do it.

Here's a pic of Merle:



Wikipedia Style
Sound man73, your linking of all the song and album names to a series of external myspace is not "the way you do it" in Wikipedia. Links if made are to other internal Wikipedia articles (such as is there for a couple of albums). The external web pages are just referenced at the end under an External links section.

Accordingly, I've reverted out all those external links, leaving in any other changes you made to the article at the same time. Wasted Time R 9 July 2005 03:57 (UTC)

Johnny Cash concert
The article states "Merle attended three of Johnny Cash's concerts at San Quentin in three different years." -- Prehaps there were earlier concerts, but the famous Johnny Cash appearance at San Quentin took place in 1969 -- nine years after Haggard got out.

So, is the quoted sentence an error, or were there earlier (pre-1960) appearances by Cash at San Quentin?

It must be an error, probably means 1970. In 1960 you did NOT get out of prison after only 3 years of 15 year sentance. Reagan was elected in 1968, so 1970 fits as a pardon (release) date, and allows Haggard to have been at Cash's concert(s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.74.73 (talk) 21:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

In 1969 Merle was long out of prison as a matter of fact 1969 is the year that Okie from muskogee was released. Johnny Cash did not make repeated visits to the CA prison system. He gave two concerts only one at Folsom and one at San Quentin these were in 1969. I have heard this story before about Merle seeing Johhny Cash in prison but it is simply not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.180.173.8 (talk) 22:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I agree: the dates don't match. I will remove the sentence.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:25, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Where is Big boy?
One of his largest albums (and individual hits) and it doesn't even get mentioned on the wiki entry.

???

Where is Big Boy? He's out in front of the Bob's where he belongs. Where are you and what are you talking about? Mr. B., NH, 4/21/09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.9.5.145 (talk) 19:50, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Feud with Willie Nelson?
Is there source somewhere to back up the information about the feud with Willie Nelson? I notice they recorded an album together. Joyous | Talk 23:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

thi article is full of bull. This article is full of bull parsons and haggard never wrote together haggard was an established star who parsons covered &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.94.6.28 (talk • contribs).

Reason for revert to Feb 7 version
I agree with the anonymous editor above. The edits by User:PeterTores introduced several suspicious and unsourced pieces of information: that Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson had a feud going, that Haggard owed much of his success to Gram Parsons, etc. In fact, a good chunk of Haggard's article became a tribute to Gram Parsons. I'm not able to pick out the fiction from the fact in that large edit by PeterTores, but I feel that enough of it is suspect that I've removed it all. There have been some other minor edits since Feb 7, and I'll try to restore those. My apologies if I miss any. Joyous | Talk 16:55, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Photo
As someone has deleted the Time Magazine cover for copyright issues, I think we need a new photo.

http://www.omguide.com/images/full_merle.jpg (This would be good with some cropping) Neal2028 03:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I put a new picture of Merle Haggard! The picture is the album cover of his latest album.

Did Some Updating
I put 3 or 4 pictures of Merle and all of his awards and albums on his page! So there are some new pictures for y'all! - Alakey2010


 * I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly, but I wanted to point out some political bias in the entry. Here's the offending section:

"Later, Alabama Gov. George Wallace asked Haggard for an endorsement, which Haggard declined. However, Haggard does express sympathy with the "parochial" or conservative way of life expressed in "Okie" and songs such as "The Fightin' Side of Me" (ibid). It should be noted, however, that after "Okie" was released, Haggard wanted to release a self-penned song entitled "Irma Jackson" about an interracial couple; the single was quashed by his record company, although Tony Booth went on to record it in 1970."

The "however" at the start (fifth word) of the 3rd sentence suggests that not being opposed to interracial relationships (i.e., not racist against blacks) is somehow inherently contradictory of the attitudes reflected in "Okie" and "The Fightin' Side of Me" (i.e., conservatism). This is not the case. Like Haggard, I am not a southernor but if I were, I would find this implication offensive.---sasmith68

Death row

 * While put in solitary confinement on death row, Haggard encountered author and death row inmate Caryl Chessman.

This sentence makes it sound like Haggard was sentenced to death. If that's true, it needs to be expanded. If not (I'm guessing that's the case), the "on death row" part could be eliminated, since "death row inmate" covers where he was (physically) without introducing confusion. 141.151.181.162 04:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Voice
Can his voice really be described as "deep" or "grumbling"? Maybe his soul, but definitely not his voice. step_sideways 07:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

boxcar house
Can someone tell me about the boxcar house? There's a ruined boxcar with a residential door along the tracks at Norris. I used to work with someone who knew him as a child who told me the boxcar house was is/was in Beardsley or McCord, but I haven't seen anything like that there. Frotz (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Removed paragraph
I removed the following paragraph from the Country success section as non-neutral and lacking sources. It appears to contain useful information, so if someone is interested in incorporating it:


 * Rather than rest on his laurels, Haggard then began another productive stretch of his career from 1980-1985 by recording 13 #1 country hits such as "I Think I'll Just Stay Here and Drink," "Big City," "That's the Way Love Goes," "My Favorite Memory," and "Pancho and Lefty" (w/ Willie Nelson). These songs were among his greatest selling of all time and his music helped lead a resurgence in country music in the early 1980's (along with Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, Conway Twitty, and George Jones, among others). Haggard's music showcased his talent as both a songwriter and artist and gained more broad appeal during this time. His autobiographical narrative, "Kern River" (1985) pulls at the heartstrings in reflecting upon young love lost and the impact of human sorrow, framing the mighty Kern River as a metaphor for life lessons learned. Yet, Haggard remained optimistic about life by recording carefree tunes such as "Rainbow Stew" (1981), which yearns for a greener planet and more pleasant times ahead: "Eatin' rainbow stew with a silver spoon, Underneath that sky are blue, We’ll all be drinking that free bubble up, And eatin' that rainbow stew." Tongue in cheek or otherwise, Haggard refused to shy away from controversial topics and continued to sing the song of the common man without regard for political correctness (A trend that began with "Okie From Muskogee"). inserted into article by User:Dkrikorian ([[User talk:Dkrikorian]|talk])

Incorrect Lyrics
The lyrics listed for "Murder on Music Row" are incorrect. The reference is to Hank Williams, not Merle Haggard ("Ol'Hank", not "The Hag") Rhinotim (talk) 04:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

(John User:Jwy talk) 22:05, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Song
Apparently, his song "I'm a White Boy" (from A Working Man Can't Get Nowhere Today) is now being used as bumper music for the Derek Black Show. I wonder if Haggard gave Derek Black permission to use the song or not? Does anyone know? Stonemason89 (talk) 01:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

His father's death and his early life of crime
Haggard both in his autobiography and in numerous interviews given, has been careful not to connect his criminal troubles with his father's death. Paavo273 (talk) 00:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC) While it's a reasonable inference to make a connection, since the subject of the article has been careful to avoid making it, the editors of this article should not do so either. What Haggard did state was a factor was being alone and being much younger than his siblings, to whom he did not relate well. Also, he mentioned that his mother was gone a lot. Haggard has actually been very careful, at least in public, to not criticize his family but rather to focus on how he *felt* when his dad died and when his legal troubles started in adolescence. The editors of this article should be respectful of the article's subject in this area. On the other hand, I have obviously not read authoritative source about Haggard. If someone has a valid source that connects the father's death to his troubled youth, then by all means it can be included, as well as rebuffed by other sources. Paavo273 (talk) 00:14, 3 February 2013 (UTC) I did not delete the information about his dad dying which is obviously incredibly important to the article. Paavo273 (talk) 00:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC) I'm just saying let the reader determine the connection, if any, for himself/herself. Of course, if someone feels strongly about the connection of the father's death and the criminal problems, he/she can make the connection provided he/she has a valid source. Paavo273 (talk) 00:20, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Father's death year is wrong?
The Merle Haggard website bio, among other websites, reads that his father died when he was 9. Wouldn't that make the year 1946, not 1945 as is written in the article? It appears from his gravestone, that the date is 1946 as well, June 19 to be exact. I'm unsure about challenging the existing reference though, so leaving this in the talk section. Joel S Bateman (talk) 01:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Politics
Was he a Democrat? (217.42.104.189 (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC))

Copyright violation
I reverted the following sentences added by, who reverted my edit and added them back: Merle Haggard described himself as a student — a student of music, philosophy and communication. He could discuss the guitar work of jazzman Howard Roberts, the hereafter or the spellbinding speaking style of Garner Ted Armstrong of the The World Tomorrow (radio and television) Church of God with equal enthusiasm and authority. In fact, after Garner Ted [Armstrong] died in 2003, Merle commented that “after Johnny Cash died, I lost a real close friend in Garner Ted Armstrong. He was like a professor to me. What education I have, I owe to him.” Merle was driven, he said, by a desire to play the guitar, to have a total knowledge of the instrument. Merle is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records and in various encyclopedias. Those reference books describe him, he said, as a country singer, balladeer, composer of "Okie from Muskogee" and "the poet of the common man." But that's not how Haggard hopes the world remembers him. (Merle Haggard quote about his own epitah) "I'd like it to say: `He was the greatest jazz guitar player in the world that loved to play country." Much of this is directly taken from the cited article on startribune.com, "1986 interview: 'It has never been fun' being Merle Haggard" : He describes himself as a student — a student of music, philosophy and communication. He can discuss the guitar work of jazzman Howard Roberts, the hereafter or the spellbinding speaking style of Garner Ted Armstrong of the Worldwide Church of God with equal enthusiasm and authority. He is driven, he said, by a desire to play the guitar, to have a total knowledge of the instrument.

... On a more mundane level, he is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records and in various encyclopedias. Those reference books describe him, he said, as a country singer, balladeer, composer of "Okie from Muskogee" and "the poet of the common man." But that's not how Haggard hopes the world remembers him.

"I'd like it to say: `He was the greatest jazz guitar player in the world that loved to play country."' Do others agree that this is a copyright violation which needs to be removed from the article or at least paraphrased? Strawberry4Ever (talk) 02:48, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Technically this is a close paraphrase of parts of the orginal article, but since the wording is so similar to the original I believe it's a copyright violation. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree with the above comments. The close paraphrasing here needs to be totally rewritten. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 08:32, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Now that Merle Haggard has been protected to prevent editing by IPs I've restored the copyvio notice for the material closely paraphrased from startribune.com. I see that made an edit in his/her last revert which explains the source of the Merle Haggard quote about Garner Ted Armstrong, which is also cited in Garner Ted Armstrong. Perhaps this can be incorporated somewhere else in Merle Haggard. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 13:57, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

The quote is taken directly from the online news article, as are many of the other quotes on this page about Merle Haggard. Why is Strawberry so upset about taking a quote directly about Merle Haggard, his personal friends, background and how Merle himself wanted to be remembered, a direct quote from Merle Haggard himself, and deleting the entire section from the article, repeatedly. Strawberry says it is "almost" verbatim - well "almost" does not count when applied to anyone or anything in life. It either IS, or isn't. And this is certainly not copyrighted. So Strawberry does not have a leg to stand on. You could delete half of all the articles on Wikipedia, if Strawberry applied this broken logic to the majority of this article, or any other Wikipedia page. The inclusion of this is proper and properly sourced from a personal interview conducted with Merle Haggard by a reputable well known news organization. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.1.240.229 (talk) 03:10, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
 * have you read WP:Close paraphrasing? When you copy material from an article written by someone else you can violate copyright even if you change a few words. Quoting Merle Haggard's words with proper attribution would have been O.K. The problem was with copying the words of Jon Bream, the author of the Star Tribune article. Strawberry4Ever (talk) 13:29, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

This was cleaned up and added upon Haggards death and had remained since that time, with no further objections. If you want to address copyright violation, or plagiarism concerns you would have to delete 90 percent of this entire article, and then 90 percent of all Wikipedia articles!

This is how Haggard himself wanted to be remembered by his fans, friends and family.

It should remain paraphrased to honor and respect the man, as it has since he died.

[User:Nblund] recent edits show he was engaged in a 9 revert edit war involving a Merle Haggard reference, at another page just yesterday before the page was protected due to his edit war. Which then brought him here where he removed similar content.

The problem with those appears to be his desire to remove the evangelist Ted Armstrong reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.253.137.26 (talk) 16:45, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia doesn't write epitaphs, and the edit in question was obvious plagiarism. I've reworded.  Nblund talk 18:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

An epitaph is a phrase or something written by another person, in memory of a friend or loved one who died and most generally as an inscription on a grave marker. This is no epitaph, but a direct quote made by Haggard himself about how he wanted his fans to remember him. A direct quote cannot be paraphrased, or copyright violation. And it was already reworded enough to avoid plagiarism concerns.

The recent edits destroy the meaning and leaving the bit about the preacher without the added full context loses all relevance. Haggard's feelings about the death's of his close friends Johnny Cash and Garner Armstrong, who preceeded him in death, are an important keep as well as how he felt about his education from Armstrong at Ambassador College.

This appears to be a destructive edit carryover from the Garner Ted Armstrong wikipedia page edit war made by the same editor involved in the warring issue there. I vote to reinstate in full, as it has been included in the article for over three years with no other editor concerns or issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.221.179.226 (talk) 00:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * My apologies for my recent revert, didn't notice this discussion. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:35, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Garner Ted Armstrong was locked by because of repeated sockpuppetry. Not because of edit warring. Coincidentally, the IP user on that page was insisting on including a plagiarized and weakly sourced quote that linked Merle Haggard to Garner Ted Armstrong. Regardless of whether or not you're related to that editor, you haven't cited any policy based reason for keeping this content, and it's copy pasted from the cited source with minimal changes. As far as I can tell, the only reason it is still here is because one or more IP users have repeatedly ignored other editor's concerns.  Nblund talk 02:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment The page is under autoconfirmed protection now. I removed this quote, because I haven't been able to find a reliable source for it. I've also reworded the statement about Haggard's interest in Jazz and placed it in the section on "Influences". I also removed the mention of Haggard's interest in Garner Ted Armstrong. I have no particular issue with restoring it if someone can find a place for it, but it is a non-sequitur in the section on his death. I think this takes care of the WP:COPYVIO issue, and the WP:PUFFERY problem.  I'm open to suggestions if you see anything else here.  Nblund talk 16:44, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * No, thanx. I haven't really been looking at this, just that edit I reverted caught my eye, but that was before I knew about this discussion. Cheers, -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 16:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)