Talk:Merle Oberon

Parentage section is a badly written mess based primarily on disreputable source
Charles Hingham has been revealed more than once to be a fabricator if not downright liar for more than four decades. Using one of his "biographies" (other than the one on Katharine Hepburn which was authorized) reflects badly on Wikipedia. I suggest anything attributed to Hingham not backed up by another source (and not one that is drawing on this Wiki article or Hingman) be removed. Montju (talk) 14:43, 22 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes. I've previously made the same observation about Charles Higham. One day when I have time, I might try. Angela Woolacott's book might be a good start.Nickm57 (talk) 07:23, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Biography assessment rating comment
WikiProject Biography Assessment

Nearly a B; needs references.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 14:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 18:45, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * No one has worked to improve this article in quite a while, and there are no citations for such unusual claims as her "obsession" with facial injuries, "cosmetic poisoning," many etramarital affairs, etc. Please, do better by this article. 64.142.90.33 (talk) 16:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Alleged affair with the Duke of Edinburgh
No mention of this widely alleged (and almost certainly true) affair? (See www.throneout.com/images/royal_affairs.pdf) 89.243.106.208 (talk) 09:55, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * No citations for much of anything -- the entire article reads like a tabloid bio! 64.142.90.33 (talk) 16:57, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have the book "Higham, Charles and Moseley, Roy. Princess Merle: The Romantic Life of Merle Oberon" mentioned in the reference section and I had read this book. I think most of the info of the larger two sections are from that book (I didn't edit the article). I'll add the citations later in December (unless it is available from google books too). In between, I'll try to add the above information and anything else I can collect from other sources. Feel free to do the same if you have sources. Thanks. --GDibyendu (talk) 20:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Which is it?
The first line of the article states Miss Oberon's birth name as Estelle Merle Oberon. Immediately to the right of the article in the infomation box under her picture, it states her birth name as Estelle Merle O'Brien Thompson. Which is it? Not very encyclopedic, I must say, but typical Wikipedia none-the-less.65.69.81.2 (talk) 20:34, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Someone has apparently corrected that. Softlavender (talk) 00:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

15-years-old mother
I removed the '15-years-old' as it was sounding ridiculous. However, I assume that the intended meaning was probably to say that when 'Merle was born her mother was 15-years-old'. But, I am not adding it back as references which can be checked immediately does not claim that and a citation is surely needed for this piece of info. Thanks. --GDibyendu (talk) 20:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Visit to Australia
This is in the article :

"She is only known to have been to Australia once, when she agreed to visit Hobart for a homecoming reception in 1978, the year before her death. However, shortly after arriving at the reception she excused herself, claiming illness. Many people who might have been in a position to confirm or disprove her Tasmanian connection were denied the opportunity to meet her and question her. She was not seen elsewhere in public during her Australian visit. "

I'm sure she was seen elsewhere. I'm fairly sure that she was invited to be a presenter at the Logie Awards and accepted, and that the invitation to visit Tasmania was extended after. I'm also fairly sure that she attended the Logie's without incident. I don't know if this may be an angle to pursue to find some sourcing for this section. There was also a documentary produced a few years ago that investigated the "myth" of her origins. I can't remember the title, but in it the claim was made that Oberon did make public appearances in Tasmania despite the fact that she found it very difficult and intimidating. I don't know what the truth is, but I think this paragraph is not on the right track. Rossrs (talk) 09:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Here we go. Woman's Day is not the most reliable source in the world, but Jeannie Little claiming to have met Merle Oberon at the Logies is at least a clue.


 * (ec) That doco is mentioned in the article - The Trouble With Merle. I saw it a couple of times, and my memory is quite at odds with yours.  I remember a crowd of people were all ready to greet her at the official reception in Hobart, but she pleaded illness and never showed up.  People who were there at the time were interviewed for the doco and expressed their disappointment at not being able to meet her, after all the initial build up.  The Logies - that's new to me but it may bear further research.  --  JackofOz (talk) 09:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, I just found it on second inspection. I'm not smart enough to actually look at the external links.  I saw the doco only once, and I'll admit my memory could be at fault there.  I remember her disappointing people who were waiting to see her, but I thought that was at the last of several appearances.   I don't doubt that I'm wrong.     The Logies - this site reproduces an article that announces Oberon as a presenter .   The TV Logies site does not mention Oberon as attending 1978 or 1979.   Who knows?  I can remember being impressed by Merle Oberon attending because she was such a big Australian star, but maybe I'm remembering the build-up, rather than the event.   I know Jeannie Little is more than whacky, but I don't think she invents people.   Or maybe she does.   If it happened I'm sure a source will make itself visible someday.   Rossrs (talk) 09:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This announced her forthcoming appearance at the Sammy Awards (what ever happened to them?) in October 1978 in Sydney. Whether she actually appeared, I couldn’t say.  A check of a newspaper from the time might be revealing.


 * I see the Media, Entertainment & Arts Alliance, as recently as February 2009, was referring to Merle Oberon as "a famous Australian actress", in an official submission to the Australian Government (read DEWHA Entry Guidelines for Foreign Actors). Somebody should let them into the secret.  --  JackofOz (talk) 14:00, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That's surprising, but I say we should keep them guessing. That particular cat has been out of the bag for quite a long time.  Rossrs (talk) 14:23, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, I was wrong. The Lord Mayor of Hobart had already become aware there was no record of her supposed Tasmanian birth, but went ahead with the reception to save face. She did attend the reception, but left early because she had a "mini-collapse and had to be helped from the room".  It was suggested in the doco that she wasn't really ill at all, but feigned illness when the questions about her early life in Tasmania started getting too hard to answer, and she didn't want her "life story", so carefully nurtured over so many years, to come crashing down in a catastrophically public way.  So, a few people at the reception did manage to meet her, but most were disappointed.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Unprecedented! But I won't tell anyone.  We were both partly right and partly wrong, if that makes you feel any better, and I was the more wrong of the two of us.  I read the Charles Higham biography years ago, and I would very much like to read it again.   That, and any newer biography may shed more light.  I feel a lot of compassion for her state of mind while she was in Hobart.   What a terrible mistake she made in accepting the invitation, after being so careful her entire life.   On the other hand, she must have lived her entire life in fear of discovery, and what a burden that must have been.   Rossrs (talk) 22:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I was even wronger than I thought. At the reception, she did actually deny she had been born in Tasmania, before "collapsing" before the questions got much harder.  This certainly hasn't stopped those devotees of the Lottie Chintook version from believing it.  But on the way to the reception she came out with yet another fairy story, namely that, although she wasn't actually born there, she spent some of her early years there (the details are in the article now).  It seems she wanted to hang on to some Tasmanian connection at all costs, no matter how tenuous, and the heat just got too much at the reception.  Yes, I have total sympathy with her situation.  She didn't even know that her "mother" was actually her grandmother, and that her "nephew" was actually her brother.  Racial discrimination is a blight on the world.  She probably had no realistic choice, if she wanted to make it in the film world of the 30s, other than to claim any descent other than south Asian.  The Tasmanian story was romantic, believable, and added to her appeal, certainly for most Australians, and many others.  It wouldn't wash these days, of course, but times were different back then.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:04, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I was reading another article earlier today, and it said that in her time racism was so rampant that she would never have had a career if she had not created a false history. (I guess you only have to look at someone like Anna May Wong who was only allowed to kiss Asian actors on screen, and who lost Asian parts to non-Asian performers like Luise Rainer in "yellowface") I guess Tasmania was isolated enough, and not well known. I'm just amazed at how successfully she pulled it off and how high she rose. I find the Errol Flynn comment amusing. It would have been an interesting conversation to overhear. Rossrs (talk) 01:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing I can find about the story of Errol Flynn disputing her origin is this, which says he was suspicious of Merle's story and her "strange, untasmanian appearance". That looks like a quote, but I’ve found no corroboration of it anywhere.


 * Here we have a different version of events. According to this version, Charlotte was the mother of both Constance and Merle, who were half-sisters.  Charlotte had given birth to Constance when she was only 14 years 9 months old, in Colombo, Sri Lanka (then Ceylon) to a married Irishman named Henry Alfred Selby, who disowned both mother and child, but Constance was given the surname Selby. Constance was sent off to a mission school and virtually forgotten about.  In Pune, India, Charlotte fell in with Arthur Terrance O’Brien Thompson, a British army engineer, became pregnant to him, and married him.  In 1911, Estelle Thompson (later known as Merle Oberon) was born, in Bombay.   Arthur went off to war, and died in the Somme of pneumonia in 1914.  In 1916, Constance, who had no love for her mother after being bundled off to boarding school for years at a young age, married a Goanese named Alick Soares, and her mother Charlotte and her half-sister Estelle were not invited to the wedding.   Charlotte took Estelle to Calcutta, then to Europe, where she assumed the identity of her maid.  And the rest is known.


 * However, this does not square with the birth certificate that shows Estelle's mother as Constance Thompson (not Charlotte Thompson). In the above version Constance was never a Thompson to begin with, she was a Selby.  Although I suppose it’s possible she took her mother’s new husband’s surname for the sake of appearances.


 * Nor does it square with Harry Selby's discovery that he was Estelle’s brother, having believed all his life he was her nephew. Whether nephew or brother, his father would have had to have been someone named Selby (probably Henry Selby), but there’s no suggestion that Henry Selby was the father of any child (outside his own marriage) other than Constance.  It's all a colossal enigma, and the real truth may never be known.  --  JackofOz (talk) 04:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Birth certificates don't always list the mother's maiden name, and this one just says "mother's name". If Arthur Thompson was the father, then the mother would also be a Thompson regardless of marital status and no questions asked. Henry Selby was born Henry Soares. When Constance parted from her husband she and her children resumed the surname Selby and she called herself Joyce Constance. This is from Higham who admittedly makes up what he doesn't know, but is from interviews with Henry Selby and is confirmed by later shipping records. Whether Charlotte or Constance was the mother will always be debatable. The fact that "Constance" was also Charlotte's middle name adds to the mix. Merle's appearance seems to be much more anglicized than Constance which perhaps suggests an extra generation of English DNA.--Donde1960 (talk) 14:05, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Height
How tall was Merle Oberon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.203.46.33 (talk) 17:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * She is said to be 5 foot 2 inches. See a Google search on "Merle Oberon height". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:7C8D:9C01:E8F5:E5AA:335E:2458 (talk) 09:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Indian actress
Is it right to call her an Indian actress when she never made films in India? Other sites/movie directories etc refer to her as a British actress, while also acknowledging her Indian background. What do you think Jack? Rossrs (talk) 22:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd prefer to call her an Indian-born British actress. --  JackofOz (talk) 00:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. That's more accurate.  Rossrs (talk) 01:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Fiction
There certainly seems to be an aura of fiction regarding Miss Oberon. See the photograph of her grave here which shows her birth date at 1917, 6 years later than other sources indicate. I wonder if this means she also fudged her birthdate to her husband, the person most likely to have ordered the grave marker. What next - she isn't even dead? Rossrs (talk) 05:25, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: "I wonder if this means she also fudged her birthdate to her husband"

Yes she did. When she married Robert Wolders in Jan 1975, he was 38 and Merle gave her age as 57 (California marriage indexes). She was actually 63, almost 64. Prior to that, she had always given her birth year as 1911 on all official documents and in interviews. If she was born in 1917 she would have been only 16 years old when she was in The Private Life of Henry VIII and I am sure that would have been noted in her later career. It is a woman's prerogative to be whatever age she can get away with!--Donde1960 (talk) 14:05, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * In 1978 she went so far as to point out Government House in Hobart (the residence of the Governor of Tasmania !!) and tell her husband that that was where she was born and grew up. If she was prepared to lie to that extent to him, there's no telling what other porkies she told.  But I have a lot of sympathy with her position.  It was very common for actors in those days to fudge their real birthdates.  In her particular case there was the added issue of the stigma of being born in India, of mixed race, out of wedlock, to an unknown father, and she wanted nothing on the record that could even hint that this was the case, so the bigger distraction from the truth, the better.  Ironically, if she was starting out today, she'd probably want the truth to be out there in all its glory, to add an air of oriental mystique to her appeal.  --  JackofOz (talk) 05:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I have complete empathy for Merle. She had several reasons to feel embarassed and she shouldn't have been embarassed about any of them.    She was just unlucky that all of the circumstances of her birth were as completely out of her control as the sexist, racist, ageist time in which she lived.   Nowadays, the dramatic backstory would be a selling point.   Rossrs (talk) 06:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

When did the truth come out?
We're saying that her real origins were only made known after her death in 1979. I have a very clear recollection of talking about her to a friend at work in around 1970 or 1971. I mentioned that she was Australian, and my friend said "Oh, no she wasn't. It's generally accepted these days that she was Anglo-Indian". So there were certainly some doubts being expressed well before she died. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:57, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think there were rumours for quite some time. Exactly how long, I don't know.   I thought that the Higham biography was the first to go on record.   Maybe it needs to be watered down and made a bit vague.  Rossrs (talk) 06:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * There might be some info in the latest biography "Merle Oberon: Face of Mystery", which was released in late 2008. Has anyone read it?  --  JackofOz (talk) 06:11, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Guess what was on Foxtel tonight at 7.30pm? (I live in Brisbane). The Trouble With Merle !!!!  I discovered this at precisely 8.28pm.  Foxtel being Foxtel,  it's on again 3 times tomorrow, so I have set my programmer to record it (once).    Face of Mystery certainly seems as though it's largely about her myth so it could be a good one to read.  Rossrs (talk) 13:33, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Birthdate
When you go to the link about her grave. The gravestone and the website hosting the grave pictures  both record her birth year as 1917 and not 1911 as recorded in the Wikipedia article. 

I didn't want to change the article as I have no other source with which to dispute this date. I also cannot reconcile issues about later events recorded in Wikipedia. This puts into question the following detail in Wikipedia:

"Some sources claim Charlotte Selby, a Eurasian from Ceylon with partial Maori heritage,[4] and Arthur Terrence O'Brien Thompson, a British mechanical engineer from Darlington, who worked in Indian Railways,[5] as Merle's parents." 

If Merle Oberon was born in 1917 and not 1911, the following makes the recorded paternity questionable: "In 1914, when Merle was three, Arthur Thompson died of pneumonia on the Western Front in the early months of World War I." 

If Arthur Thompson was the father, he died on a date later than the 1914 date recorded in Wikipedia. If Arthur Thompson died in 1914, it seems extremely unlikely that he was the father of Merle Oberon born in 1917.

I hope this issue is resolved by somebody more qualified than I. 24.19.173.191 (talk) 18:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Merle was never born in 1917. She told her last husband Robert Wolders that she was born in 1917 and he believed her. At that time (the 1970s) she was in her 60s and she merely took a few years off her age to appear younger. The truth was she was born in 1911. I am not sure if it was the 18th or the 19th of February. Her birth certificate states the 18th, but other sources state she was born on the 19th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.7.140.3 (talk) 23:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

The motoring accident
During the 1960s, the surviving reels of "I,Claudius" were broadcast on UK TV, hosted by Dirk Bogarde. Several of the original cast were still alive including the late Emlyn Williams. Apparently Merle Oberon walked to hospital after the motoring accident so the injury cannot have been too serious.

The circumstances of the accident never seem to have been revealed so who was driving and what went wrong?AT Kunene (talk) 09:31, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

The circumstances of the accident and lawsuits were widely reported http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22SIDNEY+DIGBY%22  Donde1960 (talk) 01:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Addition
During the broadcast of "I, Claudius", somebody recalled that the part of Valeria Messalina was played by the "fifteen year old Merle Oberon".

If the reconstructions of her birth date are correct,it is possible that she was older than fifteen at the time and had already fooled a number of people.AT Kunene (talk) 09:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

'I, Claudius' was filmed in 1937 and I doubt that even Merle would have tried to claim being 15 years old at the time. I would guess that this was said by someone who was mathematically challenged. Donde1960 (talk) 02:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Sterilization
In a recently published book called "The Birth of the Pill," by Jonathan Eig, he states that at the age of sixteen, Merle Oberon was, on orders of her mother (whoever that was), sterilized surgically. The ostensible reason was that her mother thought she was too beautiful and wanted to spare her unwanted male attention and possible rape. Seems flimsy to me, but it's stated as fact. Apparently the records of Dr. Rock, a gynecologist instrumental in the development of the birth control pill, but at the time running a fertility clinic, show that Merle Oberon came to him so that he could reverse the procedure. If it did happen, the reversing procedure was successful, as she subsequently had two children. Can anybody confirm this story?65.81.79.71 (talk) 15:45, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It has been said that the two children were adopted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:7C8D:9C01:E8F5:E5AA:335E:2458 (talk) 09:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no reason to suppose that this would have altered her looks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:7C8D:9C01:E8F5:E5AA:335E:2458 (talk) 10:00, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Which myth?
The article currently says:
 * "I couldn't dance or sing or write or paint. The only possible opening seemed to be in some line in which I could use my face. This was, in fact, no better than a hundred other faces, but it did possess a fortunately photogenic quality," she told a journalist at Film Weekly in 1939. In view of the information discovered since this 1939 article (see preceding section) this should be seen as part of a myth perpetrated by Oberon.

Which part of this statement is a myth? I understand that Oberon significantly misrepresented her background, including claiming to have been born in a different country 6,000 miles from where she was actually born, but I don't see anything obviously fictional in the above statement. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:04, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Merle and her Maori ancestry?
Charles Higham and Roy Moseley's biography of Merle, published 40 years ago, makes the claim that Merle's Sri Lankan birth mother Constance Selby was "part Maori." In writing (very much of its era) they describe Selby this way: "She is small, lovely and dark with black hair parted in the middle, liquid brown eyes, and exquisite firm high breasts, inheritances from a part-Maori background" (P17-18). The "Maori blood in her mother" is mentioned again on page 284, and nothing else - no notes or references regarding the claim. Have any editors come across any other historical sources that confirm this statement? Googling the question just seems to come back to this article, or to Higham and Moseley. Nickm57 (talk) 06:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So, as far as I can tell, the story that Merle Oberon was of part Maori descent is entirely down to the two short undocumented references in Charles Higham and Roy Moseley's biography of 1983. Why does this matter? As our own page on Charles Higham (biographer) notes, at some length, there is considerable controversy around the reliability of some of his work - that in the case of Errol Flynn, even led to litigation. It should at least lead us to be cautious of unsubstantiated claims made by Higham. I think we should at least qualify the "part-Maori" claim, which currently appears in the lede. Nickm57 (talk) 02:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As per the above, I have made some changes of emphasis. Higham and Moseley's claim that she had Maori ancestry is still there, but moved to end of paragraph and removed from the lede.Nickm57 (talk) 04:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So, what about the first woman in the line of descent given, Charlotte?
 * It's Charlotte "Selby" (though she wasn't married to that man)
 * Then Constance
 * Then Merle.
 * There seems to be little detail where Charlotte came from. That name isn't Indian, Sri Lankan or Maori. She herself may have been mixed race. (unless any biographers can find if she used to have an Indigenous name)
 * If she were 100% diverse & mr. shelby 100% White, Constance would be 50/50 & if Arthur was 100% White, Merle would be 75% White. But if Charlotte was half-White, Constance would be 75% and Merle would be 87.5%?
 * If either 75% or 87.5% would it be fair to identify her as the "First Asian Woman" to be nominated for an Oscar? How her 25% to 12.5% Asian is more important to historians seems to be given undue weight?
 * They're praising her for the non-White part of her, not the numerous roles she appeared in over her long career. They only started caring in the modern age due to being mixed race, if they found she was 100% pure White instead, they'd immediately drop her, like all the other prolific, but obscure White Actresses.
 * There was the #OscarsSoWhite protest campaign & i think there was even a quota system recently approved. Which sadly will overshadow all future Oscar Wins, but it seems winning at all costs is all that seems to matter anymore.2603:7080:CB3F:5032:CDF5:B1F0:C08D:D31D (talk) 14:02, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think the "first Asian actress" claim should be here - as she did not ever identify herself as such, nor was she publicly identified that way in her lifetime. However, I didn't change this in my recent edit - as across WP there has been a trend to endless debates about "who was first" to do such and such. Also the citation used for this, a Vox piece from Youtube or Twitter, is just another lightweight opinion piece that's hardly a reliable source. Meantime, the problem more generally with Merle Oberon's story is that it was primarily documented by two writers whose work has been heavily criticized for inaccuracy. Anyway, why don't you make some edits? Nickm57 (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Birth mother age
Within this article Oberon's mother's age at the time of Oberon's birth is listed as both 12 and 14. Surely both cannot be true. 64.98.89.245 (talk) 14:11, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

The origins of the “Maori blood” story
The story that Merle Oberon had Maori ancestry appears in Charles Higham and Roy Moseley’s 1983 biography, Princess Merle. I noted (above) they make reference to the Maori claim twice, on P17-18 and on P284 but provide no source. In re-reading page 283-4 it seems the origins of the myth may rest with Higham and Modeley's take on comments made by Robert Wolders, Merle’s fourth husband. They cite Wolders account of taking Merle by ship in 1974, on a world cruise, taking in ports in Asia, including tours of sights and temples in Bombay:

"She wanted to find out her mysterious origins and whether she could find the answer in those bland slumbering faces. Neither she nor I could really see her in them. We sailed on to the Indies. It was only when we got to Bali that we saw her likeness in the temples there. At last we felt we knew where she came from."

Higham and Moseley then add their own commentary – a not very accurate take on history plus some wishful thinking:

"It is important to note that the Maoris came from Indonesia in the eighth century, traversing thousands of miles and stopping for repairs in tiny islands before settling in New Zealand. The Maori blood in her mother had at last found its recognition in Merle’s subconscious."

So this might be the origin of the "Maori blood" story. I can find nothing else, anywhere, to support this idea of Merle Oberon having Maori ancestry, except in newspaper reports that repeat it. However, there is a very similar story of the cultural appropriation of Merle Oberon, documented in the 2002 film The Trouble with Merle. The film demonstrates the tenacious Tasmanian belief that Merle Oberon was the daughter of a woman called Lottie Chintock - a belief that exists to this day.

For those interested, Angela Woollacott’s chapter on Merle in "Race and the Modern Exotic" (2011) is also highly recommended. Nickm57 (talk) 23:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Merle's father
Is there any information on Merle's birth father? The article states only that she was raised by Arthur Thompson and Charlotte Selby, and her birth mother was Charlotte's daughter Constance. But who was her father? Elsquared (talk) 06:31, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Arthur Thompson was her father. I mentioned (in the previous comment above) that the documentary The Trouble With Merle is worth finding and watching. At about the 40 minute mark the documentary features Harry Selby, Merle's half-brother. It shows photos of Charlotte, Constance and briefly, at the 44 minute mark, Estelle Merle Thompson's Bombay birth certificate. Interestingly, that document gives her date of birth as 18 Feb 1911. These documents Selby provided to the ABC filmmaker in 2002, but not to Charles Higham and Roy Moseley in 1983. Nickm57 (talk) 03:06, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for the reply. I have been searching for the film, but so far only found a site to purchase a download.  (I'd rather have a DVD.)  If Arthur Thompson was her father, that would mean he wasn't Charlotte's father....he married Charlotte, who already had Constance from a previous relationship, right?  That's what got me confused. Elsquared (talk) 07:54, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Family situation
The section "parentage" says that probably her mother was her grandmother. The section "personal life" does state that as a fact. Both is a little bit contradictory. Maybe someone with more in-depth knowledge can align both paragraphs? Thank you. Glamourqueen (talk) 18:37, 18 January 2024 (UTC)