Talk:Merrie England (opera)

Association with D'Oyly Carte
Was the original production a D'Oyly Carte production? If so, it should say so in the intro. Also, the article mentions amateur productions, but have there been any other pro productions? Best regards, --Ssilvers 22:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Although it was produced at the Savoy Theatre, I believe Helen D'Oyly Carte was not associated with the theatre at that time. The opening paragraph should be a bit more expansive on this, however.


 * I've re-ordered the material to fit the standard pattern of the opera articles. The background material, which was in several places, was brought together, but it needs to be "knitted" together.


 * Some of the background material probably reflects an editor's opinion, rather than a citable source. However, I must say this is an enormous improvement over where the article was a week ago. Marc Shepherd 12:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Roles List
I added all the roles which appear in the characters list at the front of the vocal score (there's your "too many weak and unimportant characters" someone referenced as a criticism). I then went in and added voice parts for all of the newly listed roles which also appeared somewhere in the vocal score. The ones that don't have voice parts are not necessarilly speaking roles, though. In late Act II, there are staged performances for Queen with singing parts for characters such as "Princess" and "King". I don't have a copy of the libretto, the vocal score does not contain dialogue, and no plot summaries specify who plays whom in the stagings in the second act, so I'm just going to leave off voice parts until those can be determined at a later point. --Anivron 02:09, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a libretto, and the roles of the play in the second act have very little to do. None of them sing (except Wilkins as the King and the May Queen as the Princess). Slfarrell 01:20, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

"Sunny Depiction of England Under Good Queen Bess"?
I find the article's description here unrecognisable in the opera. Elizabeth is a tyrant whose court move in fear. They fear for the neck of the girl who is loved by a man whom the Queen favours. Pardons are elicited from her by a trick.

Jill-all-alone additionally spends most of the story in danger of being burned as a witch. The witch hunt is led by a popular and attractive girl, the May Queen (who, like the real Queen, is jealous).

Surely what is "sunny" is the lively music and breezy libretto?

Essex is an ambiguous character in history, and in dramatic presentation - in this he is dastardly. Yet he sings the rousing "Yeomen of England", just as this tyrannical Elizabeth delivers the beautiful "O Peaceful England". It seems the early Twentieth Century had broader backs than the new Elizabethans, considering the fuss another Elizabeth and Essex opera, "Gloriana", made at the time of the Coronation.

With reference to "Roles List" above - I'm afraid the piece just loses its way in Act Two.

Rogersansom (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:43, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Essex Listed as Bass
Listing Essex as a bass seems questionable. I refer to the score on IMSLP. According to the score, this role was first portrayed by Henry Lytton |Henry_Lytton, who is described as having a "light, tenory, thinnish" voice. Examining the score reveals a similar range to the role of Long Tom, but which is currently listed as a baritone here. (Added by User:91.125.52.45 on March 30, 2021)


 * New discussions go at the bottom of Talk pages. Do you have a published WP:RS that states that he is a baritone?  Lytton played several bass roles throughout his career.  Please sign your talk page comments, using four tildes, like this:  ~ .  That automatically adds your username and the timestamp. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:17, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Where is the reference which supports the assertion that this role should be listed as a bass? On the basis of the score on IMSLP there is an error here: Either the voice designation of Long Tom is incorrect, or the voice designation of Essex is incorrect. The fact that Lytton sang some bass roles seems a weak argument by comparison. The score is pretty convincing. 91.125.52.45 (talk) 13:17, 1 April 2021 (UTC)


 * See WP:CONSENSUS. You have not raised a consensus of editors to change this stable version of the article based on your unreferenced preference.  I disagree with your reasoning and conclusions above.  The fact that range is not, in your opinion materially different does not mean that the casting was not intended to be a bass.  Plus, I do not accept your factual claims.  You need to cite an authoritative source, if you want to change the stable version. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)