Talk:Merrill Brown/Archive 1

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Lead Paragraph Modified
Dear Wikipedians,

I have modified the lead paragraph and infobox on Merrill Brown. Please take a moment to review my edit I have added new updated links and have updated the lead paragraph. Cheers. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 22:57, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Reply 28-SEP-2018

 * Unfortunately, the main sandbox location where you saved these edits is cleaned periodically. To propose changes to the article, go ahead and place your requests here, on this talk page. When ready to proceed, please change the template's answer parameter (just above your post on this page) to read from   to   Regards,   Spintendo   06:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Lead Paragraph and infobox Modified
Dear Wikipedians,

I have modified the lead paragraph and infobox on Merrill Brown. Please take a moment to review my edit I have added new updated links and have updated the lead paragraph.

'''Update - 28 september, 2018 ''' Please review the edits below - the location where the edit was saved is being cleaned as mentioned by Spintendo

Merrill Brown is a veteran media executive and journalist, who is the Founder and CEO of The News Project. He is a consultant and board member of many media, technology, and educational entities, as well as other corporations. In his capacity as an educator, Brown was the Founding Director of The Montclair State University School of Communication and Media,   a Founder of News 21,  and advisor to other educational organizations. He is also known as the Founding Editor-In-Chief of MSNBC.com, and a former correspondent and executive for The Washington Post.

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 12:17, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Reply to edit request 28-SEP-2018
Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes for information on each request.  Spintendo   02:51, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Substantial modification
Dear Wikipedians,

I have updated the page for Merrill Brown. Please take a moment to view my edit. I have updated the page, added new links and have used a chronological order for the career section. Thank you so much. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk)

Reply 14-OCT-2018

 * A portion of the proposed text appears to be insufficiently paraphrased from the source material. This text ought to be rewritten, taking care to ensure that the text uses an editors own words whilst using an editor's own phrasing. Text which is directly used ought to be enclosed within quotation marks and properly attributed.
 * Regards,  Spintendo   03:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Substantial Edit (revised) -10/16.2018
Dear Spintendo,

I have revised the paragraph in question. Here is the updated the page for Merrill Brown. Please take a moment to view my edit. I have updated the page, added new links and have used a chronological order for the career section. Thank you so much. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk)

Reply 15-OCT-2018

 * Your edit request could not be reviewed because it is unclear which references are connected to which claim statements in the text of your proposal. When proposing edit requests, it is important to highlight in the text which specific sources are doing the referencing for each claim. The point of an inline citation is to allow the reviewer and readers to check that the material is sourced; that point is lost if the citation's note number is not clearly placed. Note the example below:



The sun is pretty big, but the moon is not so big. The sun is also quite hot.

References 1. Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 1. 2. Duvalier, Gabrielle. "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46. 3. Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 2.

In the example above there are three references provided, but the ref notes have been bundled together at the end of the passage. Bundled in this fashion means that the sources do not indicate which reference applies where. Your edit request similarly does not specify where the references you have provided are to be placed, as each paragraph bundles large grouping of ref notes together at the end of almost every paragraph in the draft. The links between material and their source references must be more clearly made, as shown in the next example below:

✅

The sun is pretty big,[1] but the moon is not so big.[2] The sun is also quite hot.[3]

References ^ Sjöblad, Tristan. The Sun. Academic Press, 2018, p. 1. ^ Duvalier, Gabrielle. "Size of the Moon", Scientific American, 51(78):46. ^ Uemura, Shū. The Sun's Heat. Academic Press, 2018, p. 2. 

In the example above, the links between the provided references and their claim statements are perfectly clear. Kindly reformulate your edit request so that it aligns more with the second example above, and feel free to re-submit that edit request at your earliest convenience. Regards,  Spintendo   05:29, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Substantial Modification (updated 10/22/2018 as per Spintendo's recommedations)
Dear Spintendo,

Thank you for your comments - I have updated the references as per your recommendations. Please find the latest edit here

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk)

Reply 22-OCT-2018
Thank you for your help. Regards,  Spintendo   18:42, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Please use the quote parameter of the citation template by quoting the passage from the sourced material and entering it into the template itself for each entry. This is to ensure that the material taken from these sources is accurate and has been sufficiently paraphrased for use in the article. When ready to proceed, please change the  template's answer parameter to read from yes to no. I assure you that your request will be expeditiously reviewed upon receipt of these changes.
 * To other reviewing editors: For your convenience, a diff of the COI editor's requested changes as compared to the current version of the article may be found here. As you can see from these requested changes, the COI editor is asking for additional material to be placed concerning the subject's time at these different locations, with the main claims being made concerning the subject's supposed affect upon each operation. I have asked the COI editor to quote verbatim from the references to justify these additions and to detect any instances of WP:SYNTH or WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE.

Reply 10/27/2018
Hi, I have revised as per your instructions. Please find the edit here

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saad Ahmed2983 (talk • contribs) 14:21, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Reply 27-OCT-2018
Thank you for providing the requested information. In review of your draft, the following revisions are suggested: When ready to proceed with the revised draft, please change the  template's answer parameter to read from yes to no. Thank you! Regards,  Spintendo   15:20, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The lead section should not have any references within it, per MOS:CITELEAD. All information in the lead should be replicated elsewhere in the article. Those other locations are where the references should be placed.
 * 2) There are four CS1 maintenance errors in the references which need to be corrected. In each instance where Archived copy is entered as a title, the actual title of the archived reference needs to be used.
 * 3) Instances where more than one reference is being cited need to be reduced to one reference, per WP:TOOMANYREFS. Only the most germane source should be listed.
 * 4) The sections regarding Consulting work and Other work are not germane to the article, per WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Information from these two sections which should be omitted includes the following:
 * 5) Information on reports that the subject has written
 * 6) Information on advisory boards the subject has been a part of
 * 7) Information and details on the subject's work at MMB Media or the News Project, including information on those two organization's clients or their activities.

Reply 10-28-2018
Thank you for your comments. Can we include Merrill's consulting/other experience in the article?

MMB Media and News Project are the subject's company. News Project is the latest venture - There are legitimate third party sources that discuss that these are his companies - please advise a course of action.

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk)

Edit request reply 09-NOV-2018
These items require substantial revision before being deemed acceptable for the article. Additionally, the COI editor is asked to remember to sign all posts using four tildes. Regards,  Spintendo   12:30, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This review is based on the proposed changes shown in this diff with the current version of the article on the left and the proposed version on the right.
 * 1) The sections regarding Consulting work and Other work (which were addressed by me earlier in my reply from 27-OCT-2018) are not germane to the article, per WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Information from these two sections remains in the request, and should be omitted. These include the following:
 * 2) Information on reports that the subject has written
 * 3) Information on advisory boards the subject has been a part of
 * 4) Information on the subject's consulting firm
 * 5) Information and details on the subject's work as shown under the Career section contains much anecdotal information which may be considered trivial, including:
 * 6) News21 - which includes information on how the organization functioned
 * 7) The News Project - which includes its mission statement and other irrelevant information
 * 8) CourtTV - which includes generic information on activities that directors and executives do at various companies everyday, repackaged here as Brown's accomplishments
 * 9) MSNBC - which includes information already found in (and more appropriate for) that article
 * 10) Montclair - which lists various programs and other minutiae, including claims regarding Brown's "key role" in establishing various programs during their tenure, all information more appropriate for the Montclair article.

Substantial Edit (revised) -11/6/2018
Hi there,

I have revised the document as per your suggestions made on "Reply 27-OCT-2018" please find the edits here

The following suggestions have been edited:
 * 1) 1 The lead section should not have any references within it, per MOS:CITELEAD. All information in the lead should be replicated elsewhere in the article. Those other locations are where the references should be placed.
 * 2) 2 There are four CS1 maintenance errors in the references which need to be corrected. In each instance where Archived copy is entered as a title, the actual title of the archived reference needs to be used.
 * 3) 3 Instances where more than one reference is being cited need to be reduced to one reference, per WP:TOOMANYREFS. Only the most germane source should be listed.

I left a reply for the last suggestion however there was no reply, here is the last suggestion made by Spintendo: "The sections regarding Consulting work and Other work are not germane to the article, per WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Information from these two sections which should be omitted includes the following:


 * 1) Information on reports that the subject has written
 * 2) Information on advisory boards the subject has been a part of
 * 3) Information and details on the subject's work at MMB Media or the News Project, including information on those two organization's clients or their activities."

Please note that this wiki article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy. Therefore it should include the subject's companies, especially if they are mentioned by legitimate sources. MMB media and The News Project are the subject's companies and is cited by credible sources.

Additionally, the consulting work, board affiliations and reports are already present in the current article, I have only changed it into chronological order and have added the most germane and recent references.

To other editors:

Please feel free to suggest, comment and improve the article.

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983

Reply 06-NOV-2018
You are correct, in that the subject being involved in these companies should be summarized. Further information which the proposal seeks to add including details on the company's clients and their activities are not part of BLP. My review is of the proposed material only. That it may already exist in the article is not the issue. Items which you wish to move around or place in chronological order (taking care not to remove or add anything) would not be seen as controversial edits, and you should be allowed to make those. I have never seen an edit placing something in chronological order being reverted as a COI, as there is no conflict of interest with respect to the ebb and flow of time.  Spintendo   14:02, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 07-NOV-2018
Hello Spintendo, thank you for your response, this clears up everything. I have edited out the "details on the company's clients and their activities" as per your suggestion. Please review at your convenience.

Kind Regards,Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 09:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Other Work
Brown has served on the Boards of Directors for several online media and publishing companies: GoLocal24, Revenue.com and MedCity News. He is also an advisor to Capture Media Inc., Dstillery, Mixpo and is a member of the advisory board of the City University of New York Graduate School of Journalism. He is on the Advisory Council of the CUNY school.

Brown has served on the Boards of Directors for several online media and publishing companies: GoLocal24, Revenue.com and MedCity News. He is also an advisor to Capture Media Inc., Dstillery, Mixpo and is a member of the advisory board of the City University of New York Graduate School of Journalism.

Previously Brown was Chairman of the Board at NowPublic, a citizen journalism network with contributors from around the globe, and was Chairman of the Advisory Board at TRA Global. Brown has also served on the boards of Smashing Ideas Inc.

Note - please see if you need any changes - if not, let's have this posted.

Kind regards

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Substantial Edit(revised)-11/12/2018
Hello, I have made the changes as per your suggestions please find the edits here. I have 2 questions:

1. Msnbc.com section: I also believe that current information is appropriate for this article, however; in one of your previous requests, you asked me to rewrite the MSNBC.com section because this section in the current article was plagiarized. My edit for this section is an update and is cited. Let me know what you think.

2. Advisories: The "other work" is comprised of a summary of Brown's advisory experience - do you want me to remove this section completely?

Kind Regards, Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 10:25, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 12-NOV-2018

 * 1) ❌ It is both the case that the original MSNBC section was insufficiently paraphrased from the source material and the rewritten material is better suited for the article on MSNBC.
 * 2) ✅ The Other work section was implemented, with the exception of the claim regarding CUNY school, which was referenced by Montclair, and not CUNY.


 * 1) A BLP sources maintenance template was appended to the article.
 * 2) Citation needed inline templates were added where necessary.
 * 3) Items such as the subject's undergraduate degree, which is normally omitted in BLP articles, was omitted here.
 * 4) Items referenced as plain ref links were changed over to Citation Style 1 to align with the style used by the implemented Other work section from the draft.

Regards,  Spintendo   11:34, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 12-NOV-2018
Thank you for your swift response.

I have made all the changes as per your suggestions. My edit request involves the complete article. I am attaching it below for your convenience. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Infobox

Lead Paragraph Merrill Brown is a media executive and journalist, who is the Founder and CEO of The News Project. He has been a consultant and board member involved with corporate and nonprofit media, technology, and educational entities, as well as other corporations. In his capacity as an educator, Brown was the inaugural Director of Montclair State University School of Communication and Media, a Founder of News 21, and advisor to other educational organizations. He is also known as the Founding Editor-In-Chief of MSNBC.com, and a former correspondent and executive for The Washington Post. In addition, he is the co-founder of the Online News Association.

Proposed changes
Hello All:

This is the revised document, please find it here

The purpose of the edit is update information and replace the old page with this copy. You may view the requests above.

All of the requests were amended.

Thanks

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 13:37, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Reply 28-NOV-2018
Regards,  Spintendo   20:38, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * (Please note: The list of requested changes is here.)
 * The suggested changes would not offer an improvement to the article, per WP:BALASP. The majority of salient information is already present in the article, and sufficient reasons why this additional material should be added have not been provided.

Some proposed changes
Please find the edited version here Reasons: 1. Added additional citations for verification and are adding reliable sources that the page has been flagged as missing.

2. Quality of reading is improved and this is in-line with wikipedia biography rules, much better structured and is updated - reflecting the "current" status of the individual's employment status that has been discussed by independent media (please see the citations)

Note- I have also added the citations on the main page as requested.

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 21:54, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 13-DEC-2018
All three of these items are again posted in the edit request proposal. These claims run the risk of changing the article's purpose from one about the subject to one about the subject's businesses, which is beyond its remit. Regards,  Spintendo   22:51, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ The request to add citations for additional verification is moot, as the changes were already made.
 * ❌ The rest of the request does not differ from the previous request (the differences between the live version of the article and the requested version are shown here) in which it was determined that the following details were excessive additions to the article:
 * 1) Details on the subject's consulting work
 * 2) Detailed descriptions of the subject's newest venture (GoLocal24) and what sort of business that venture deals in
 * 3) Descriptions of the subject's avisory roles in various organizations

Request for changes
Hello, thank you for responding to my last coi request. I have edited out the following information as per your request:

1. Details on the subject's consulting work

2. Detailed descriptions of the subject's newest venture (GoLocal24) and what sort of business that venture deals in

3. Descriptions of the subject's advisory roles in various organizations

Please find the document here

Note -I have made all the revisions as per your request, what should I do next to have this document published?

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 13:03, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 19-DEC-2018
I have revised the article, placing the items there in chronological order as best possible. Citation needed tags were placed where indicated. Regards,  Spintendo   15:55, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 19-DEC-2018
Hi Spintendo, you have made great efforts to address all of the concerns you raised. Please find new citations for all the places where you asked for citations to be added.

Would it be possible to please expedite approval of these changes - please let me know. Thank you!

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 16:47, 19 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Please note that it is not my responsibility to locate sources for claims which you wish to add to the article. The burden of evidence lies with the editor wishing to add or retain the material.  Spintendo   13:32, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 20-DEC-2018

 * 1) ✅ The claim regarding Montclair was moved to the known for parameter in the infobox.
 * 2) ❌ The claims regarding Time, Time Magazine Daily and Money magazine do not have dates ascribed to them and the references are not placed in Citation Style 1 as is the rest of the article. (See WP:CITEVAR.)
 * 3) ✅ The claim regarding The News Project was added to the article.

Regards,  Spintendo   13:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) The BLP sources maintenance template has been removed.

Proposed changes
Hello Spintendo, thank you so much. I will apply the citation 1 style on the page.

There is one point that I would like to highlight in the News Project section. Merrill did not help launch the News Project, he was the only one who formed it and launched it.

Here is a quote from the citation in the live article, "The News Project (TNP), a publishing platform company formed by media executive Merrill Brown and companies from the media, journalism and technology spheres, launched today."

Here is another quote:

“A group of media, journalism and tech companies has joined veteran media executive Merrill Brown to create a full-service publishing platform specifically built for digital news publishers called The News Project (TNP). Brown says his company is different from other digital publishing platforms, like Maven, SquareSpace and Medium, because his focuses solely on news.” —

Here are other citations that confirms this claim:

1. https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/318538/the-news-project-launches-helps-publishers-build.html

2. http://www.niemanlab.org/reading/there-is-now-something-called-the-news-project-and-the-associated-press-has-signed-on-as-a-partner/

3. https://www.americanpressinstitute.org/need-to-know/need-to-know-may-2-2018/

4. https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardhomonoff/2018/12/03/hanukkah-and-eight-media-miracles-we-could-all-use/#2ad74d5a254c

5. https://www.businessinsider.com/publishers-pursue-monetization-beyond-facebook-apple-news-2018-9

Thank you again. Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 16:16, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

The full quote from the source delineates Brown's partners in this venture:"The News Project, a publishing platform company formed by media executive Merrill Brown and companies from the media, journalism and technology spheres launched today. Founding partners include Charming Robot, a design and user experience firm; a seed investor group led by Mark Walsh ; and digital development company 10up, which engineered the platform . Technology from Piano, a digital subscription and audience intelligence technologies company, will also be integrated into the platform. Many individual investors are also involved in supporting the platform."I would seem that the claim that Brown "was the only one who formed it and launched it" runs counter to what the sources are saying. Most of the sources provided state that Brown and a handful of others worked to start this venture. The Forbes piece is the only one that mentions Brown alone, and that was written before the venture began (which was likely a time when access to who was actually part of its beginnings was preliminary) and was written by a former MSNBC colleague of Browns. If "helped" is to be removed, then the others who were pivotal to its creation ought to be listed as well.  Spintendo   18:05, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 12/20/2018:

Thank you for your response. I believe this would be a more relevant quote, " The News Project, started by my former MSNBC colleague Merrill Brown, is creating a technology platform to amortize newsgathering costs across a multitude of news organizations. Of course, a few billion dollars would help all of this a great deal more, and here is wishing for alchemy of and for all of the above. It’s not hyperbole to say no media miracle is needed more."

Here is another reference where it shows that Merrill Brown is the founder of the news project.

The sentence on the live page suggests that Merrill Brown helped launch the NewsProject, in fact, this is is Merrill's company. In the citation above, "Brown says his company is different from other digital publishing platforms, like Maven, SquareSpace and Medium, because his focuses solely on news"

Perhaps we can simply say, Brown is the founder of the NewsProject?

Kind Regards

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 18:29, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

"He says it is his company". Notwithstanding the liklihood that his use of personal pronoun here was merely for linguistic purposes — Brown's own words about himself are not the best of references to use in an article about him.  Spintendo   18:38, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

That is correct. I am sharing another example that would clear things, "Merrill Brown is founder and CEO of The News Project, a startup helping to make news and news rooms better and more affordable." Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 18:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

My decision has been made. Unless you have any additional proposals to be made here which include mentioning the others involved in starting this project (just as the sources you've provided mention them), please take your concerns to WP:DRR/3. Regards,  Spintendo   19:03, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your response, I understand your point and agree with you. Yes I do have a proposal which includes mentioning the others involved in this project.

The News Project

in 2018, Merrill Brown formed The News Project with founding partners Charming Robot, seed investment group led by Mark Walsh and digital development company 10up, as well as other individual investors involved to support the platform

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 21:22, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Reply 20-DEC-2018
 Spintendo   23:51, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed changes
Hello Spintendo, thank you so much for your valuable contribution to this page and for approving the last edits. I have one last concern, which I would like to share with you.

Lead Paragraph
Merrill Brown is a media executive and journalist. In addition to writing for The Washington Post, he launched MSNBC.com and was the website’s founding Editor-in-Chief.[3][4] He is former Director of the School of Communication and Media at Montclair State University.[5] He is currently leading efforts for The News Project “ OR “Currently, he is running The News Project.” Would it be possible to add the News Project in the lead paragraph? Kind Regards. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 19:25, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Words like "currently" don't work due to WP:RELTIME. How about "Brown is CEO of The News Project." Please advise.  Spintendo   20:52, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for you response. "Brown is CEO of The News Project." looks great. Kind Regards, Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 21:11, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅  Spintendo   21:36, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Could you clarify the roles and dates for Brown's work at MSNBC and CourtTV? There is confusion, as the article lists roles differently than the infobox does. Please clarify.  Spintendo   21:55, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Merrill was a senior vice president, corporate & program development for Court Tv from 1990-1994. Here is a quote from the reference on the live page,"Brown was one of the initial strategists responsible for creating the Courtroom Television Network (Court TV). Brown worked on all facets of the network’s operation leading up to its July 1991 launch. As senior vice president, corporate & program development, he oversaw program planning, advertising, promotion, marketing, public relations and development of day-to-day management of the cable network (1990-1994)." For MSNBC.com, the article refers to him as "Chief Journalist", that is a term used to describe a Journalist who holds a management position, in this case, its Founding Editor-in-Chief, he also became senior vice president in the year 2000. Here is a quote from the reference on the live article, "Mr. Brown -- for whom New York-to-Seattle has become a shuttle flight -- is the chief journalist in charge of MSNBC Interactive, the Internet side of the ambitious new joint venture between NBC News, a unit of the General Electric Company, and the Microsoft Corporation. The venture will go on screen -- TV and computer -- a week from today."

I hope this clears the confusion.

Kind Regards,

Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 22:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)