Talk:Meryl Silverburgh (Policenauts)

Age
Is Meryl really 18? -User:Psi edit

I looked on various websites it seems most say shes 29 while others say shes in her 20s. -User:Psi edit

The Briefing section in MGS says she's 18. No this isn't "unofficial". --DoubleCross 23:54, May 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * I've just edited the MGS version's age from "18" to "teens", but I really need to replay the briefing section, now that you mentioned that. Jonny2x4 11:39, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I just thought Meryl (MGS) looks alot older in the game. -User:Psi edit

Ok well since theres been so many people reediting the age back to 18 I included a possible answer to this in the Other info section of the article -User:Psi edit


 * I've changed it back to teens, since none of the characters in MGS have any specific ages, with the exception of Nastasha, who is 28 or 29 based on her personal backstory (Snake and Ocelot don't count, since they didn't have birthdates until MGS3). All characters are referred as being on their twenties, thirties, forties, fifties and so on. If you read the officially released personal data of Meryl (as seen on Art of Metal Gear Solid and the Millenium Guide ), they referred to her as being on her teens. That could be anywhere between thirteen and nineteen if we interpret it literally, although she is obviously a grown woman and must be in her late teens (17 to 19), but not neccesarily 18.

I concur good job. And nice site you found User:Psi edit

Hey guys, she's 18 years old. The briefing stated it. Changed. user:anonymous

Watch it
Okay, mine's busted beyond repair, but surely one of us has the game to hand. Can't they watch the briefing files and see if it flashes up? - Hayter 09:17, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It does say that she's 18 in the briefing i just watched it (The Bread 23:36, 26 April 2006 (UTC))

Seperation of Characters
Posted some changes today to the MGS version. I'm thinking though, would it not be better to have seperate pages for the two Meryls? They are obviously different characters and whilst the seperate sections on this page do show that, in the intro the references to both characters, particularly, "Meryl Silverburgh is a fictional character created by video game designer Hideo Kojima. Meryl first appeared in..." This line would suggest the character is the same person in both games which is not the case. At the least, a re-write would seem in order. - Hayter


 * Is the Policenauts character called Meryl Silverburgh as well? Because unless they share the same name, they shouldn't be on the same page.  As it is right now they shouldn't be on the same page.  They're two different characters from two different games.  I move for a separation.  TotalTommyTerror 15:27, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe the policenauts character is called Silverburgh but it's irrelevant as the metal gear series has never hinted that its universe includes parallel realities, time travel or anything that would relate these two characters. Whilst it's conceivable (and perhaps probable) that Kojima wrote the mgs version as an alternate interpretation of the policenauts version, thw two are clearly not the same character. Meryl Silverburgh (Policenauts) sounds good to me. - Hayter 19:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

They should be seperated ASAP especially in light of MGS4 as once that is released there will be lots more info to add on MGS Meryl. (The Bread 23:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC))

Survival post-MGS
The article says that the fans accept Meryl's survival as canonical. Until further games prove this, I submit that her death is canonical. She wasn't seen in MGS2, and if not for some implied lines, not mentioned at all. Furthermore, the character of Solid Snake developes more upon her death in MGS, having submitted during torture and allowed her death at Ocelot's hand. --RevRaven

The article says most fans accept her survival as canon and provides circumstacial evidence to back this up. We won't know either way until the release of MGS4 (assuming it is covered therein) but given the clues dropped by Kojima & Co., it seems more likely that she survived and rather than claiming she is alive, the article reflects this mass assumption and shows its basis. - Hayter 13:12, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Canon has her as being alive. On top of the fact that the "In the Darkness of Shadow Moses" book on the MGS2 disc says that she is alive (this is canon) there is a conversation you can have between Snake and Otacon on the Tanker mission in MGS2 where they talk about her.  After you defeat Olga on the Tanker, look at her and call Otacon on the Codec.  Otacon then mentions something about Snake's attraction to tomboys and asks about Meryl where Snake replies with that he kind of got tired of her.  This is canon.  Meryl is alive and I'm editing the speculative part about it.  TotalTommyTerror 15:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

MGS Capture
It's been a long time since I played the game so maybe I'm simply forgetting lines in the script, but where has it been implied that Meryl was raped during her Shadow Moses Captivity? I've read a lot of fan-fiction and speculation on the game and this is a new theory to me. - Hayter 13:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It's from the line where she says "And things worse than that" after being rescued by Snake. It's pretty subjective though, but only natural to assume when you consider she's a lone teenaged girl held hostage by a predominantly male terrorist group. For all we know, she was probably forced to watch a marathon of Full House. :p Jonny2x4 05:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


 * There are things worse than rape. The line should be stricken as she never says 'rape'.  TotalTommyTerror 15:47, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


 * During the "Otacon ending", Revolver Ocelot implies that she was/is going to be raped during Solid Snake's interrogation. Th line could also refer to him torturing her as well,so i'm not sure. Meryl mentions something along the lines of "I withstood the torture-and things worse than that." during the ending. I think that the scenario implies rape.


 * It depends on the line used by Ocelot. "And things worse than that" (Meryl) could be seen to imply rape but it's not explicitly stated, so to go with the theory based on this one comment is a stretch. If Ocelot backs it up then perhaps, but if it's just him showing pleasure at the idea of dealing with her if Snake quits the torture, then it's worth remembering he takes a lot of joy from his work as an interrogator and may in fact enjoy that more than rape. - Hayter 10:55, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a tricky situation, because they clearly leave it to the viewer to decide what would be worse. However, I can see why rape would be a logical conclusion. Given the relatively short timeframe, what else could she have gone through? Most forms of phsyical abuse would still qualify as torture, would it not? Rape may qualify as a greater violation than mere physical abuse. I'd certainly love to here ideas or other theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onikage725 (talk • contribs)


 * As would I, but the article isn't the place for such speculation, unless there is a deal more circumstansial evidence to back it up. A line that "leaves it to the viewer to decide" isn't enough, I feel. - Hayter 09:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I agree 100%. However, it may be worth mentioning that "something" happened. Whatever it was that was worse than the torture did happen, whatever it may have been.

I think there was more than just the "and things even worse than that"-line that implied rape. There was also this little line by Meryl: "But through all the pain and SHAME there was one thing" and I can't remember the rest of the qoute. But I think the mentioning of shame also implies rape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.209.241.6 (talk • contribs)


 * People can't experience shame during torture? Have you played MGS3? Seen the torture scene where after being electrocuted, the big bad Snake wets himself? Some would call that shameful. Maybe Meryl did this, maybe she cried, maybe she begged for mercy, maybe she broke and told Ocelot everything she knew about the base, maybe she admitted her favourite film was Pretty Woman instead of Top Gun... Shame's a relative term, and because Meryl felt shamed by what had happened in no way implies rape. - Hayter 16:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge

 * Given that the two articles have only just been seperated, I don't know why the tag's up, but I Oppose re-merging the two. They're clearly seperate characters despite the similarities, and as Bread points out above, the likelyhood is that there will be further information to add on MGS Meryl when MGS4 is released. - Hayter 10:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I see no name to split the article into two in the first place. Considering many popular fictional characters (particularly from comic books) have articles here covering different incarnations from multiple continuities, I don't see the need of splitting the two. Especially considering the two characters are very closely tie (as opposed to just having the same name). Jonny2x4 20:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Because this is more than simply a change of actor like James Bond or something - these are two different characters and this isn't a comic book. In MGS it's revealed at the end that Snake shares his name (Dave) with the Policenauts partner of Meryl, something which likely isn't coincidence (especially given the two romantic relationships) but doesn't warrant them being in the same article. This Meryl was supposedly part of FOXHOUND during the Zanzibar incident whereas MGS Meryl was green at the time of Shadow Moses. Comic books are notorious for contradicting their own canon and special editions which see Superheroes team up in ways that couldn't happen within normal story constraints, so it would be misleading to use them as an example to follow in this case. Even if there is doubt and debate, the default must be "seperate characters - seperate articles" until something is presented (more concretely than looks and name) that indicates these are the same character. - Hayter 20:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I still fail to see your logic. Solid Snake himself has five different incarnations when you consider all the side-stories and non-canon sequels (Snake's Revenge Snake, Ghost Babel Snake, MGA1 Snake and the cloned Snake from MGA2). I consider Policenauts Meryl and MGS Meryl to be two different incarnations of the same character, just like how the DCU Batman is different from the Comic Book Batman for example. Jonny2x4 21:38, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * They should NOT be merged! Meryl Silverburgh from MGS and Meryl from Policenauts are two different people listed with different categories. Do not merge them! --Tuspm 13:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC) Copied from other Meryl talk page - Hayter 18:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)